Reflex wrote:
Threeweight - This is the post I am responding to:
Pablo wrote:
They suggest selling diesels. That would be a great idea, if they stop corner cutting and if the dealers could actually work on them. Right now it would be suicide... fastest way to make sure a customer never buys your car again.
Judging by that his point was that Chrysler's diesels are worse than their gassers, based on quality and dealer service. That is the point I am disagreeing with here. I see no significantly lower quality in their diesel engineering vs. their gasoline engineering. Perhaps I misread Pablo, if so then feel free to disregard although I don't really understand the point of his post if its about Chrysler overall since then he's basically saying that all of Chrysler sucks which has nothing to do with whether or not they should introduce more diesels.
The points you make about Chrysler are good observations, I don't think they are quite as stong of issues as you do but then thats personal preference. I personally cannot stand Toyotas, they are not comfortable and do not make sense to me in terms of their control arrangements and the size of everything from seats to buttons. That said I know plenty of people like them, as evidenced by their sales, so perhaps Chrysler could learn a thing or two there...
You are taking my point correctly. The diesel has more issues than the gasser and the availability of service for it is too poor for Chrysler to release this as a typical consumer product vehicle. I am not saying the diesel is a bad engine-- it is just its packaging for the CRD that was botched. It was probably the victim of bean counters (people under the old CFO who they fired more than likely).
To add more salt to the wound is poor parts availability. Most who have had their CRD lemoned have met state qualifications due to the amount of time the CRD was in the shop. Most of that time was waiting for a “back-ordered” part. However, even regular maintenance items such as the boost pressure solenoid filter and serpentine belt have been special orders-- requiring two days to get. I can't imagine what would happen to soccer mom on a trip in podunk nowhere when they tell her she has to wait two days for a simple serpentine belt or fed ex it overnight for another $45. Yikes! It is even worse out of country-- where diesels are supposably more prominent. I have sent folk in OZ parts via Fed-Ex because they were waiting months to get them at a much higher price from the local dealer. Not only did they get the parts cheaper through me-- they got them quicker. Chrysler needs to fix the dealer inventory issues if it wants to continue selling VM diesels anywhere outside of Europe.
Of course, I am not a typical consumer-- that is not why I bought a CRD and I had an idea of what I was getting into. Nevertheless, I remain disappointed at the amount of money I have spent addressing design and engineering flaws in this vehicle. As to the recalls, the number is not the whole story. First, the number does not take into account silent recalls of failed parts, nor does it take into account warranty work related to them and diagnostic work which most dealers simply refuse to do, as they are not compensated by corporate for troubleshooting. Second, the details on the wikipedia article are not entirely correct. It states that one recall was F37 (tranny recall) and that one was emissions related. The emissions issue was a required recall. The F37 was not technically a recall-- it was a “customer satisfaction bulletin” that was optional. Missing from the list is the recall about the transmission filters in the 545RFE. Chrysler uses the 545RFE in the diesel-- but not the gassers. It was issued in early 06 and applied to 05-06 vehicles made before a certain manufacturing date. So that would be two real recalls, although not the ones listed, and one sort of “recall”-- that was optional to all customers. Three in total.
What they have not recalled is more telling. The fact they have silent recalls is more damning than if they had of recalled all the issues, as it means they are sticking us with these issues:
1. Silent EGR recall (mechanical redesign due to faulty part). Before USLD some people went through upwards of four and five of the old EGR's. I still have the old EGR as I drove all highway and ran really good fuel with regular hard throttle runs to keep it blown out more.
2. Silent EGR flow control recall (mechanical redesign due to faulty plastic gear in part). People went through these like candy too. I still have the old one of these too, but it is starting to whine loudly after shutdown. I will probably have the dealer do this before the warranty is out, if I can get them to do it.
3. Silent ECM recall. Most 05 CRDs have faulty ECMs that cannot take a flash directly and have to be replaced outright or swapped into a 06 and be coaxed into working. Hope your service department has a n 06 laying around for just such an emergency, otherwise you can wait for a new ECM or for an 06 to come in for some other repair/maintenance.
4. Multiple tranny silent recalls, one which caused the mandatory emissions recall. See F31 and all the prior torque converter TSBs. The final F-37 “recall” is still not a proper solution. They "fixed" the problem during F37 with a band-aid power reduction to save the fragile torque converter and tranny internals. 05-06 was the first year of an auto tranny in Europe as well as U.S. So it is no wonder they did not have issues with it-- they did not have it. It is still an option over there-- and not a frequently requested one. Guess what tranny the new 2.8 VM CRD JK has? It is the more expensive MB W5-- not ours. Not a vote of confidence for the turd tranny they gave us.
5. Silent tranny pump recall. Mechanical redesign of the seal and beefier internals (done with F-37 if you beg and hold your nose right). Otherwise, it is your problem when the old one craps after warranty.
6. Silent CAC hose recall (redesigned the part to keep it from oil saturating and blowing apart). Seems like it would not have taken much to realize the stock CAC did not stop the oil, but apparently someone was under the delusion it did and would not cause a problem with a cheap hose or with the MAP.
7. Failed to recall CRD for air in the fuel issue that many have had-- along with the associated fuel leaking onto the heater wiring issue. I suppose until a CRD catches fire this recall will remain outstanding. It only costs $4000 for a fried fuel pump, so if you tinker with it to try and fix their boo-boo and restrict flow to it somehow and burn the pump-- hope you have $5000 grand saved away. If you don't fix it and get out of warranty with a pump used to sucking too much hot air-- well hope you also have $5000 grand saved away.
8. Air intake with insufficient flow. Many reports of it suffering from water ingestion during heavy rain, although I have not personally had such-- but many here have. I do know that the filter plugs up in 7,000 miles-- even when only driven on surface streets-- due to the insufficient surface area of a gasser filter design inappropriately used on a diesel to save some pennies (and for space considerations).
9. Overheating issues are still not solved, despite previous silent recalls (TSB's) to fix the gage and silent recalls on defective mechanical clutches (there are two silent recalls right there). Now, mine does not overheat, but on the run I was on yesterday the other two CRD drivers complained about it overheating in 4low or when driving highway and more than 105+ degrees F. Another guy (ex-CRD owner and mechanic) across the street from work had that issue as well.
10. MAP sensor that fills full of crud and has to be cleaned every oil change. Either they should recall that or they should recall the CCV filter as it does not stop oil from gumming this part up. The CCV filter would be better, IMHO. I bought a Provent for this reason and it helps greatly. I am on my second hose. Thank you Airpark.
11. Random “limp mode” without a diagnostic code. Restarting the motor fixes it. I suppose they will have to figure out what is causing this before they can fix it but it is something that has caused issues for many and should be recalled.
12. The bus that connects the tranny and motor is hacked-- as both think they are bus master and are time sliced on the bus. This violates the industry standard protocols that are setup for ODBII which is a federal law and standard. Seems like they should have to recall this, but they have not and we are stuck with a fragile computer system that cannot be read with industry standard code readers (tranny info drops or unit locks up entirely). When they screwed it up bad enough with one flash the ODBII reader was disabled entirely-- resulting in the emissions recall.
13. Fuel filter that is 15 microns absolute when it should be 3 microns to protect the fuel injectors. It also has a nasty tendency to disintegrate when exposed to water, like toilet paper does. This is despite claiming to be a water separating unit. Hope you like little pieces of water soaked tissue paper and algae in your 26,000 psi fuel injectors.
14. I would also submit that the tranny cooler/air exchanger is insufficient to keep the tranny cool and has resulted in many tranny issues. It should be recalled, but of course will not be. This is especially needed in low airflow situations, like 4x4ing, which should be an intended use of a Jeep vehicle.
15. Furthermore, the fuel system ought to have a fuel cooler-- the infared temp guage I bought collaborates previous data posted by retmil (I believe it was him). I saw a 15 degree F increase over ambient temp on a full tank after a 30 minute run, so I don't want to know what the temp was with only a quarter tank and it being 110+ here driving for an hour or more. I could have forgave Jeep the fuel cooler, just like I forgave them the cheezy OEM muffler. After the rest I can no longer give them the benefit of the doubt on the fuel cooler. I have to say it all reflects poorly on the engineering job the accountants did on this vehicle.
Now if boot-em Bob cuts the chaff from the old management team, and instills the same kind of engineering discipline there as at GE turbofan, and lets the new Toyota guy handle the dealer network and service experience-- then they can go full steam with diesels. Until then, I pity the customers if they try. I must admit the new turn of events with the management team is encouraging.
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I get the typical "no problem found or can not duplicate" when I take it in. They've screw the programming on the transmission up so bad that it's no longer suitable for towing my camping trailer as it's always shifting up and down and will surely die at a early age 
Towing a camping trailer is what I bought it for 
I've owned diesels since buying my first new car, a 1978 rabbit. So I've suffered car dealer's attitude towards diesels for a long time. You just don't seem to understand they have too many marginal areas on this car and in the transmission especially.