Chrsyler gets spanked by MSNBC

Cowpie1 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:10 am

Boy... I feel real lucky to have one of the CRD's that hasn't had even one of the problems being discussed. Still on original EGR. Change out the fuel filter every 10K. Did the recalls, but wasn't having any problem before or since. Have used it off road quite a bit on the farm. Pulled quite a few heavy loads. Run some pretty big snow storms and drifts. Just used B5 diesel with Howe's additive, kept the oil changed regularly, kept the air box clean and replaced air filters. Oh... for grins, I cleaned the MAP once. A little loose carbon build up was all. Original CAC hoses with no degradation. No tranny "shudder". Just a return to dealer when new because the tranny pan filter fell off and CRD was undrivable. No problem since. Oh well...... no problems, and averaging 26-27 mpg running around (slightly lower in winter) with bursts above 30-31 mpg on trips.

Maybe I can get original sticker for it if I sold it!

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

Joe - I cannot prove a negative. There is no way for me to 'prove that people don't have problems'. You are the one making extraordinary claims. The burden of proof is on you. The fact that you can get a few owners to concur with you does not constitute a statistical sample, its basically anecdotal evidence. The simple fact is that over eleven thousand of these were sold by Dec of 06(no idea how many afterwards). Despite that, you can only find a couple dozen disgruntled users on random internet forums(most seem to be here). If there was any serious defects affecting a large percentage of users, it would be fairly obvious. In this day and age, people do generally know how to research an issue online.

The issues you mention appear to me to be mostly those of preference. It does not do what YOU want it to do. I have said this repeatedly, but you just don't get it. If it does not affect the vehicle during typical use, then it is not a defect to the overwhelming majority of owners. I certainly can conceed that you have problems with it when doing certain actions, I am not much of an off roader, and I use mine as a simple daily driver so I probably won't hit some of the issues you do. However thats the point, the Liberty is a compromise vehicle, not the off road commando that the Wrangler is, but not quite the comfortmobile that the Grand Cherokee is. Its not perfect in either role, but its good enough for most people.

As for quality, if used as intended the Liberty will undoubtedly last decades. So far the two dealers I have taken mine to have commented that it is the most reliable vehicle that they ever sold(both stocked up heavily on the GC CRD due to the great track record of the Liberty).

BTW, the statement here that I'm having the most issue with is this:

Quote:

I'm glad you've got a perfect crd but most of us are having problems that Chrysler is taking a deaf ear to

You do not represent 'most of us' by any meaning of the term. You represent a tiny subset of CRD owners, and in my experience this subset exists in virtually any auto club. Basically they will find reasons to hate thier purchase, yet refuse to sell it and move on. They will never be satisfied by the official response, always feeling that thier backyard mechanic skills are superior to those of the trained and experienced engineers at the manufactuer. There is no pleasing these people, even if everything was changed to what they thought was appropriate, they'd find new reasons to witch. I do not contest that you have had problems, I only contest your assertion that since you have had issues, that 'most' have had issues. The fact is, most have done just fine, and if that were not the case it would be obvious by now.

KJbob · **Posted:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:27 pm

Reflex wrote:

As for quality, if used as intended the Liberty will undoubtedly last decades.

I hope you are right, but if wanted my vehicle to last for decades, I wouldn't have purchased a Liberty.

Reflex wrote:

So far the two dealers I have taken mine to have commented that it is the most reliable vehicle that they ever sold(both stocked up heavily on the GC CRD due to the great track record of the Liberty).

The GC CRD my dealer has has been sitting there since Easter. Another dealer close to my work has two that are having a problem getting sold.

For me, the jury is still out on my CRD. I like Jeeps but I hope not so much so that I lose my objectivity. Mine is going in tomorrow for an aggravating vibration at speeds between 45-60 mph and then again at speeds above 75mph.

All I can say is that I'm glad I have an extended warranty!

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

The new edition of Diesel Power magazine has an article on the new small 5-ish liter Duramax V8 diesel, which is apparently designed such that a V6 can be produced with very little retooling. Expected to hit showrooms in 1/2 ton trucks by 2010.

Ford has hinted at a small diesel in F150's in 2009. Honda is hinting at a 3.0 liter diesel in the Pilot/Ridgeline in 2010. Then there is the much-anticipated Cummins 4.2 liter. And Toyota just bought a share of Isuzu to gain access to their clean diesel tech, which would give them a potential source of US emissions compliant small diesels.

Chrysler could recover from its current predicament by embracing clean diesels and building on the brand recognition/loyalty the Dodge Ram diesels have earned it. Of course, they desperately need to boost quality and improve their dealer support/tech support before any new diesels are introduced. However, they do not have a lot of time to do it.

I would love to see Chysler's new masters map out a business plan that embaces clean diesel tech as a center piece of their truck/SUV lines, with a quality diesel powertrain offered in every model, along with the training and dealer support infrastructure needed to make the whole thing work. Big Cummins in the Ram, the new 4.2 in the Dakota/Durango and Grand Cherokee, and the new VM "Panther" 2.8 in the new Liberty and Wranglers. Being the first manufacturer to go "clean diesel" with the entire truck line would be an enormous PR and marketing win.

Warrantying their vehicles for up to B20 (as Cummins already does w/ their engines) would take it all a step further.

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

Unfortunatly VM was bought out by GM, meaning no more VM engines for Chrysler products. Caddilac is getting their new engine, apparantly. But I have read that Cummins is working on a small 6 cyl and possibly a 4cyl for their light truck and possibly cars...

boilermaker2 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:13 pm

Unfortunately, I love this machine. Even though every emission control/senson that could have failed already has at least once. I've blwon noses. I've brought premium fuel. I keep all fresh fluids.

Now I get to take it back in two weeks because a more experienced tech to look at a buried code: P0868 in the computer.
I'll bet you money that the pump is going out in the transmission...I didn't beg for it to be swapped out during the f37. In addition, my service department has the attitude of "ain't broke, don't fix". Which I understand, one audit from DCX would sting I would think.

Unfortunately/fortunately I have an idea what a P0868 mean because of this site and others.

True, other vehicles have issues but every time I start to fall in love again with it again the cr*d drops another t*rd on me. :oops:

I love the mileage, towing and 4x4 on this rig but it doesn't mean so much if it is on the lift in the garage. Looking at the KK and XJ I might have similar issues. I hate it to think it, but I would almost bet that Ridgline or Tacoma are in my future if things don't turn around.

As to flocking to a site for those with trouble, you bet. Sometimes you have to fend for yourself.

There is one thing that is very true about this machine. It has made me a better shade tree mechanic than any other vehicle that I have owned. I marvel at the technology and shake my head at the corner cutting. The only other to even come close was a Bronco II that cracked a block while waiting in line at the drivethrough at Steak n' Shake over 10 years ago.

$250 more on the assembly line (for all the machines) would have made this a FANTASTIC machine rivaling any foreign or domestic model.

Sorry for the rant. I just spent $270 for something that I have to take back and they will likely have to call "DCX Engineers. :cry:

Boiler

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:49 pm

Reflex wrote:

Unfortunatly VM was bought out by GM, meaning no more VM engines for Chrysler products. Caddilac is getting their new engine, apparantly. But I have read that Cummins is working on a small 6 cyl and possibly a 4cyl for their light truck and possibly cars...

You can't even get that right :!:

Go here and read this http://www.vmmotori.it/en/03/00/dettaglio.jsp?id=100

21/06/2007 Important agreement for the supply of engines for the new Wrangler

VM and Jeep scale Nevada's mountains

It is called the Rubicon Trail - perhaps in honour of Caesar's famous crossing – and, just as in 49 B.C., successfully getting to the other side marks "the point of no return". This extremely rough terrain which lies between California and Nevada was chosen by Jeep, the prestigious brand of the Chrysler Group, to put its new vehicles to the test.

The new Wrangler, equipped with a powerful 177 CV turbo diesel produced by VM Motori at its plant in Cento (Fe), recently passed this tough and selective challenge with flying colours. The 2.8L engine can be combined with a 6-speed automatic or a 5-speed manual transmission.

Important agreement for the supply of engines for the new Wrangler

<< Back

Then this

17/07/2007 GM will buy 50 Percent Equity Interest in VM Motori

DETROIT – General Motors Corp . announced today it has reached a joint-venture agreement with Penske Corporation to purchase 50-percent equity of VM MOTORI S.p.A., a designer and manufacturer of diesel engines based in Cento, Italy.
here http://www.vmmotori.it/en/03/00/dettaglio.jsp?id=102

boilermaker2 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:30 pm

OK, I don't want to get in a flame throwing contest because only he :evil:

wins.

Some people have had no problems and that is to be the EXPECTED norm. Whether it is or is not I do not know. But those who have had trouble have had, in some cases, lots of trouble. Unless you like making your daily commuter (and foul weather backup vehicle for the family) also your shade tree hobby, it is a bur under the saddle. If I had a dollar every time I had the "this is the last problem so I don't have to move it...AKA it is now debugged debate," I could afford to buy the MB GL outright. :!:

Boiler

Inet_CRD · **Posted:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:05 pm

I have found all sorts CRD information because of this forum, and also experienced some of the problems others have described here. I am now better armed to address the issues I am having as well as hopefully take care of potential future issues as well. For example while my injection pump works well enough, I have had friends stranded when their cummins injection pump slowly fried due to a failed lift pump. So for me, it makes sense to put on a lift pump and then check it's operation every oil change while others would say it's not worth the bother. Each to his own, but I for one am following these forums closely and thankful that other CRD owners are documenting what they find. Even if everything was working perfectly on my CRD, I would still be here reading information like the information junkie I am. Take away what you want, the name of the game is to share what we find and have a 'forum' to do it in.

BTW - Ford's qualified engineers and executives reassured every Pinto owner that they would never design and sell car that would explode when rear ended. That's why I always trust large corporations, they're on our side!

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:10 pm

You guys want problems, go buy one of them "clean diesels". The dpf's are particualy a wonderful design. No mods either. Manufacturers are "smart" on the plug in power boosters and anything else you can think of. Ecm's now record and save lots of intresting things. Don't even think of working on it yourself unless you really know your stuff and have their diagnostic software plus computer. We have one of the last real diesels out there. I have had some of the problems discussed in this thread. I'm on my fourth egr with 35,000 miles. I do not consider my vehicle a lemon or a failure. It is the nature of the beast. The new diesels are so much worse. I can't even begin to explain. Sometimes you gotta make lemonade.

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:15 pm

Inet_CRD wrote:

BTW - Ford's qualified engineers and executives reassured every Pinto owner that they would never design and sell car that would explode when rear ended. That's why I always trust large corporations, they're on our side!

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

When I bought my first vehicle in high school (a 1984 Toyota SR5 4wd pickup), my uncle would give me no end of doo doo about what a piece of junk my little rice burner was, how the POS four banger engine was going to blow up within 50k miles, and how I should instead buy a big ol' Chevy like his, one of the last "real" trucks. He was convinced that a "real engine" needed a carb, stupid computers would break down within a few thousand miles. and that cat converters would castrate trucks forever.

My old Toyota lives on as a work truck on the family farm, and is still going strong. His "real truck" went to the scrap yard decades ago.

When CAFE standards and catalytic converter requirements kicked in the late 70's and early 80's, there was a similar level of whining from domestic auto manufacturers. Meanwhile, the Japanese and European automakers quietly met the standards, and gobbled up market share. Chrysler cannot afford to sit around whining about how unfair the world is, or how burdensome clean air regs are. They need to get their ducks in a row and get on with making good vehicles that people actually want to buy.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the new Honda's, VW's, Toyota's (and potentially Fords, Dodge pick-ups, and Chevys) with "clean diesels" will all suck. But I doubt it. The real question is whether the US automakers will cash in on this opportunity to turn their fortunes around, or blow it again and cede the field to the Japanese and Europeans.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:55 am

I wouldn't say they all suck. Some are better than others.(my opinion) I would say, in terms of diesel emissions, that this is like the late 70's/early 80's for gas engines. Lots of ideas and experiments without a clear winner. Lot of junk too.....

Chrsyler gets spanked by MSNBC

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