A liberty with 33's

swmpthg · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:27 pm

Sport wrote:

jerbacher wrote:

by the way, i thought that there was a really good reason why a cradle drop couldnt be done on a liberty... what happened to that? so now we can just pop a bracket in there and we're good to go?

Well I hope it is as easy as it sounds. I want to go taller and the cradle drop will make me feel better about doing it.

Hey swampthng, what shocks are you using in the rear?

XJ BDS shock for a 6 inch cherokee lift in the rear

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:49 pm

Sport wrote:

tommudd wrote:

IF it was easy and simple then you would see us all with 4/6 even 8 inches of lift. If you dont know what youre getting into its best to wait and do it the right way with a kit if one becomes available that we all knows works

just my 2 cents and a little bit of experience

Thus the reason for all these questions, if we wanted to dive right in there would be no need to ask.

I am getting a little sick of this forum.

I should not have to respond to this but you stated you wanted easy , when you start lifting these one thing leads to another so nothing is simple and esy, swmpthg I am sure can back me up on that. With everything he has done there are still problems, just trying to make that clear. I know where there are 2 Wranglers and 1 Cherokee sitting due to the fact the owners wanted the tallest rig and they tore them apart and dont know how to preceed.
Ask away but nothing is easy and simple

Sport · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:28 am

tommudd wrote:

Sport wrote:

tommudd wrote:

IF it was easy and simple then you would see us all with 4/6 even 8 inches of lift. If you dont know what youre getting into its best to wait and do it the right way with a kit if one becomes available that we all knows works

just my 2 cents and a little bit of experience

Thus the reason for all these questions, if we wanted to dive right in there would be no need to ask.

I am getting a little sick of this forum.

I should not have to respond to this but you stated you wanted easy , when you start lifting these one thing leads to another so nothing is simple and esy, swmpthg I am sure can back me up on that. With everything he has done there are still problems, just trying to make that clear. I know where there are 2 Wranglers and 1 Cherokee sitting due to the fact the owners wanted the tallest rig and they tore them apart and dont know how to preceed.
Ask away but nothing is easy and simple

Well just to clarify I was not talking about the lift as a whole I was referring to the 2" cradle drop. But you felt the need to chime with your little tid bit of knowledge and experience. read before you post or perhaps I will start a new thread to discuss the cradle drop and hopefully Jeepin Al the one who might actually be able answer how it exactly works will chime in and not..well to keep it clean you.

you got one thing right nothing is easy.

jerbacher · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:32 am

ok, group hug guys!

tommudd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:44 am

Yep group hug and I will do it with "my little tid bit of knowledge and experience" !!!!!!!!! :lol:

33 years of working on 4 wheel drives in dealerships and my own shops as a hobby and I am still a beginner I guess !!! :lol:

see I can laugh about all of this because I dont take this all that serious and we are all here to share information

Now back to the real stuff instead of wasting my time :roll:

Sport · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:01 am

tommudd wrote:

Yep group hug and I will do it with "my little tid bit of knowledge and experience" !!!!!!!!! :lol:

33 years of working on 4 wheel drives in dealerships and my own shops as a hobby and I am still a beginner I guess !!! :lol:

see I can laugh about all of this because I dont take this all that serious and we are all here to share information

Now back to the real stuff instead of wasting my time :roll:

So tell us your thoughts on a 2" cradle drop, this should be a good answer with your 33 years of work experience and all.

tommudd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:19 am

Honest opinion, it is one of those things that will work to a point. I dont see it as the best way but at this time it is one alternative to getting some extra heighth. NOW in that matter as well you do realize that if you do say a 2 inch cradle drop you are raising the body ( sort of like a body lift) but are not raising the suspension any, with say a 31 inch tire maybe you have say 11 inches of ground clearence now, with the cradle drop it would be the same, but then you could maybe run a 32/ 33 inch tire with no rubbing, so you would gain an inch of extra there. So it does work but still I see some little glitches, I had the tires and part of the front suspension out of mine last night doing some measuring just for this purpose, I do this for fun in the evenings instead of watching TV :lol:

Also look at the front suspension the upper control arms are connected to the "body part" while the lower are connected to the sub frame, if we had a different spindle that was longer and with a different mounting point for the spindle then that would be great! With the cradle drop you are taking those two points farther away from each other . If you look close there are alot of points that will bind without some massaging I think but it would work. Come over some day and I will take you through it step by step.
I would try it but without deeper gears available I am still on the fence with if it is worth it or not, at least for me.

NEXT THOUGHT ON THIS ANYONE??

Sport · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:39 am

Tommud that was some insightful information there, thank you.

though a 2" drop wont gain you anthing clearance wise going from a 2.5 to 4" or 5" suspension lift using the same size tire. You will however gain suspension travel more articulation and run a bigger tire whicih will gain you more height.

Also SFA going with suspension alone that will never gain you any clearance under the axle it is all about lifing the body to get bigger tires and suspenison travel. The only way to get clearance under the axle for SFA is bigger tires? am I wrong?

Binding I don't know about and the front diff is always a concern when going with a larger tire.

jerbacher · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:41 am

Here's what Seth had to say about a kj cradle drop:

ARBSeth wrote:

The KJ is a tough rig to lift. One of the biggest probelms you guys DON'T see is that the IFS cradle for the D30A acts as a motor mount...
So you can't just cut the cross members and do a drop bracket without SERIOUSLY affecting the integrity of the chasis. Ask your good friends at Rock Krawler how well that worked out for them... as a good company, they said "Whoa.. that didn't work" so they scrapped it, too.
You can't compare one paltform to the other (KJ vs. WK) because there are too many differences to make it an even swap. You know, like a HEMI vs a lil ole 3.7 and stuff. Yes, I know you can get a 3.7 GC... but the chasis are different.

You guys are just going to have to understand that unless you want to dump a ton of money into your KJ, 3" is as good as it gets. It's just not safe for a Reputable company to do anything bigger. Sorry...

tommudd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:54 am

jerbacher wrote:

Here's what Seth had to say about a kj cradle drop:

ARBSeth wrote:

The KJ is a tough rig to lift. One of the biggest probelms you guys DON'T see is that the IFS cradle for the D30A acts as a motor mount...
So you can't just cut the cross members and do a drop bracket without SERIOUSLY affecting the integrity of the chasis. Ask your good friends at Rock Krawler how well that worked out for them... as a good company, they said "Whoa.. that didn't work" so they scrapped it, too.
You can't compare one paltform to the other (KJ vs. WK) because there are too many differences to make it an even swap. You know, like a HEMI vs a lil ole 3.7 and stuff. Yes, I know you can get a 3.7 GC... but the chasis are different.

You guys are just going to have to understand that unless you want to dump a ton of money into your KJ, 3" is as good as it gets. It's just not safe for a Reputable company to do anything bigger. Sorry...

Pretty much it in a nutshell there Jon

Sport, not sure how much more articulation you will gain due to control arms hitting mounting points etc. I know Al had to do some cutting of the frame I think near the upper control arms and that is one point I am referencing. As I said I have laid under mine enough to pretty much see everywhere it would hit, and while it would raise everything along with bigger tires it also will not allow "that much" more movement. For mall crawling it would look cool, for off road hard core wheeling, not sure it would be that much of an extra benefit.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:19 pm

tommudd wrote:

jerbacher wrote:

Here's what Seth had to say about a kj cradle drop:

ARBSeth wrote:

The KJ is a tough rig to lift. One of the biggest probelms you guys DON'T see is that the IFS cradle for the D30A acts as a motor mount...
So you can't just cut the cross members and do a drop bracket without SERIOUSLY affecting the integrity of the chasis. Ask your good friends at Rock Krawler how well that worked out for them... as a good company, they said "Whoa.. that didn't work" so they scrapped it, too.
You can't compare one paltform to the other (KJ vs. WK) because there are too many differences to make it an even swap. You know, like a HEMI vs a lil ole 3.7 and stuff. Yes, I know you can get a 3.7 GC... but the chasis are different.

You guys are just going to have to understand that unless you want to dump a ton of money into your KJ, 3" is as good as it gets. It's just not safe for a Reputable company to do anything bigger. Sorry...

Pretty much it in a nutshell there Jon

Sport, not sure how much more articulation you will gain due to control arms hitting mounting points etc. I know Al had to do some cutting of the frame I think near the upper control arms and that is one point I am referencing. As I said I have laid under mine enough to pretty much see everywhere it would hit, and while it would raise everything along with bigger tires it also will not allow "that much" more movement. For mall crawling it would look cool, for off road hard core wheeling, not sure it would be that much of an extra benefit.

There are hidden problems with cradle drops to(for the KJ),one if you have the HD cooling you will need to cut the bottom of the fan shroud and then your not going to have the correct cooling,two the exhaust will be lowered so you need to redo the hangers and/or complete system,three some hoses and wiring now maybe to short,and lastly if you do not also drop the tranny/t-case crossmember the same distance then you are pointing the front of the engine down and the rear t-case output up causing odd driveline angles and possible premature failurs.

jerbacher · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:22 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

tommudd wrote:

jerbacher wrote:

Here's what Seth had to say about a kj cradle drop:

ARBSeth wrote:

The KJ is a tough rig to lift. One of the biggest probelms you guys DON'T see is that the IFS cradle for the D30A acts as a motor mount...
So you can't just cut the cross members and do a drop bracket without SERIOUSLY affecting the integrity of the chasis. Ask your good friends at Rock Krawler how well that worked out for them... as a good company, they said "Whoa.. that didn't work" so they scrapped it, too.
You can't compare one paltform to the other (KJ vs. WK) because there are too many differences to make it an even swap. You know, like a HEMI vs a lil ole 3.7 and stuff. Yes, I know you can get a 3.7 GC... but the chasis are different.

You guys are just going to have to understand that unless you want to dump a ton of money into your KJ, 3" is as good as it gets. It's just not safe for a Reputable company to do anything bigger. Sorry...

Pretty much it in a nutshell there Jon

Sport, not sure how much more articulation you will gain due to control arms hitting mounting points etc. I know Al had to do some cutting of the frame I think near the upper control arms and that is one point I am referencing. As I said I have laid under mine enough to pretty much see everywhere it would hit, and while it would raise everything along with bigger tires it also will not allow "that much" more movement. For mall crawling it would look cool, for off road hard core wheeling, not sure it would be that much of an extra benefit.

There are hidden problems with cradle drops to(for the KJ),one if you have the HD cooling you will need to cut the bottom of the fan shroud and then your not going to have the correct cooling,two the exhaust will be lowered so you need to redo the hangers and/or complete system,three some hoses and wiring now maybe to short,and lastly if you do not also drop the tranny/t-case crossmember the same distance then you are pointing the front of the engine down and the rear t-case output up causing odd driveline angles and possible premature failurs.

i think that the jeepinbyal 6" comes with some sort of t-case and/or/maybe tranny shims or something. as for the other problems...who knows..

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:26 pm

I am sticking with the 2-2.5" OME style lift...the next safe and reliable step (IMHO) is an SFA. If you want a true 4"+ lift, the SFA will be the best way to go. You have to ask yourself, "Do I really need 1.5" more IFS lift and 33" tires with the Aluminum D30 front diff?" With the cradle drop needed and relocation of at least the UCA (since a new spindle is probably not going to happen), "Is all the trouble worth it for a 1" taller tire?" Yes you will gain some approach/breakover/departure angle...but without widening the stance you will be a bit top heavy.

It seems that it would be better to stay with the 2.5" that is available now and SAVE for a SFA. For the $$$ spent to "maybe" get a true 4"+ lift working properly...you could go SFA for a bit more and be done with it (plus you will get rid of the OEM Ball Joint Recall). You will end up with a stonger, more capable, easier to fix rig. The other option is to spend money on a cheap trail rig and use the Liberty to tow it to the destination.

tommudd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:32 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

I am sticking with the 2-2.5" OME style lift...the next safe and reliable step (IMHO) is an SFA. If you want a true 4"+ lift, the SFA will be the best way to go. You have to ask yourself, "Do I really need 1.5" more IFS lift and 33" tires with the Aluminum D30 front diff?" With the cradle drop needed and relocation of at least the UCA (since a new spindle is probably not going to happen), "Is all the trouble worth it for a 1" taller tire?" Yes you will gain some approach/breakover/departure angle...but without widening the stance you will be a bit top heavy.

It seems that it would be better to stay with the 2.5" that is available now and SAVE for a SFA. For the $$$ spent to "maybe" get a true 4"+ lift working properly...you could go SFA for a bit more and be done with it (plus you will get rid of the OEM Ball Joint Recall). You will end up with a stonger, more capable, easier to fix rig. The other option is to spend money on a cheap trail rig and use the Liberty to tow it to the destination.

plus add in the limited gear ratios :roll:

and so to end this I say

AMEN!!!! :wink:

tom

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:37 pm

tommudd wrote:

plus add in the limited gear ratios :roll:

and so to end this I say

AMEN!!!! :wink:

tom

Very True...I still wonder why nobody has built a custom "standard ring & pinion" D30 that will accept out CV Axles...then we would just have to get a custom front driveshaft to connect to the stock TransferCase. Ahh...money rears it's ugly head again :wink:

jerbacher · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:42 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

tommudd wrote:

plus add in the limited gear ratios :roll:

and so to end this I say

AMEN!!!! :wink:

tom

Very True...I still wonder why nobody has built a custom "standard ring & pinion" D30 that will accept out CV Axles...then we would just have to get a custom front driveshaft to connect to the stock TransferCase. Ahh...money rears it's ugly head again :wink:

sounds like after all that, plus all the other mods that would go into a big IFS, and we're back to the same price as SFA again...

Sport · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:44 pm

anybody want a slightly used slighly modified KJ, I owe a ton of money on it. Any takers? :shock:

tommudd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:34 pm

Sport wrote:

anybody want a slightly used slighly modified KJ, I owe a ton of money on it. Any takers? :shock:

Ahhh come on there Sport, look at it this way, you have to spend money on something so just keep the Liberty and wheel it and save up and someday SFA!!! I cruise over to ROF all the time and those guys buy a Rubicon and then start changing out wheels, lifts , axles, etc etc so whats the difference in doing it to what you have or to a Wrangler or whatever you get?

Plus if you sold the Liberty who would I have to argue with :wink:

Tom

OH and Jon we are back to where we started I think

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:12 pm

jerbacher wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

tommudd wrote:

plus add in the limited gear ratios :roll:

and so to end this I say

AMEN!!!! :wink:

tom

Very True...I still wonder why nobody has built a custom "standard ring & pinion" D30 that will accept out CV Axles...then we would just have to get a custom front driveshaft to connect to the stock TransferCase. Ahh...money rears it's ugly head again :wink:

sounds like after all that, plus all the other mods that would go into a big IFS, and we're back to the same price as SFA again...

You know it could be done for fairly cheap(well not what most here consider cheap).A D30,D30A,chopsaw,some scrap metal,and a welder it can be done in probally a day or two.Without the cost of rebiulding the D30 and a new driveshaft it would probally run about $200-$250(with the intial cost of the D30),then add rebuilding the D30 and new driveshaft it would probally run $600-$1200(depending on what kind of traction aid added).But those #'s don't include any labor.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:33 pm

Yep, and with the custom D30 housing with standard D30 innards a few more gear ratios would become available.

A liberty with 33's

Who is online