Strange Mind Games or Not??

JeepBeat · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:46 pm

This is a weird question....After a few of our latest snow storms, I was out blowing my driveway out. It has been mild, so when blowing, you get the lawn tractor tire chains biting into the bits of grass and leaving neon green stains on the snow, much like that of antifreeze. My mind has started to play games with me, that while blowing snow, I think there are green stains where I thought the Jeep had been sitting before I moved it. Then I start to wonder, if there was a leak?? I checked under the hood today and notice that the antifreeze looks red/orange in the overflow tank. Is there any fluid under the hood that is green?? After I parked it in another spot, I left it running and periodically checked under the Jeep, with no leaks. It must just be the neon grass stains in my driveway that are messing with me. I haven't noticed any leaks when it's parked at work all day. Is the rad antifreeze actually red from Dodge?

Dumb situation, I know.............cheers!!

Guest · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:54 pm

your antifreeze should be red. if it's green AND you haven't had green coolant put in it, you got bigger problems:)

JeepBeat · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:59 pm

The antifreeze in the overflow tank is RED, and I haven't noticed any drop in it's fluid level in the tank.

Being a fairly new chap to the Libby, why does Chrysler have Red antifreeze? I assume you have to use the dealer kind when changing or adding it? I just always thought that fluids needed to be different colors, to diagnose leaks, etc. If tranny fluid and anitfreeze are both red, it adds more guessing......

I think the neon grass stains are weighing too hard on my mind.....

Thanks

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:09 pm

yep, the coolant is red from the factory. the after market coolant is yellow. http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=10[url]

I,m not sure about the leak detection but it probably has to do with an idiot proof color system. When a machine comes from the Caterpillar factory, the oils are colored. green is 50w orange or blue is 30w, purple or red is 10w.

Uffe · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:11 pm

Green coloured fluids in the jeep?

The closest I can come is the power steering fluid (my dealer gave me some for a grand cherokee which was greenish). I know you're supposed to use ATF+4 for power steering, but it could be power steering fluid.

However, my best guess is that you've had a little optical trick played on you. Snow reflecting sun light (or other types of light) does strange things to the coloring. I would just check the jeep for droplets hanging off the bottom of it, but I suspect you won't find anything there

JeepBeat · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:15 pm

Uffe wrote:

Green coloured fluids in the jeep?

The closest I can come is the power steering fluid (my dealer gave me some for a grand cherokee which was greenish). I know you're supposed to use ATF+4 for power steering, but it could be power steering fluid.

However, my best guess is that you've had a little optical trick played on you. Snow reflecting sun light (or other types of light) does strange things to the coloring. I would just check the jeep for droplets hanging off the bottom of it, but I suspect you won't find anything there

I think you may have hit the nail on the head!! More likely an optical illusion.

SavageUrge · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:54 pm

So now my mind is playing tricks on me! The link above brought me to the Zerex G-05 HOAT link, but I thought the Liberty used Dex-Cool...?!

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:56 pm

SavageUrge wrote:

So now my mind is playing tricks on me! The link above brought me to the Zerex G-05 HOAT link, but I thought the Liberty used Dex-Cool...?!

Nope Chrysler started using G-05 in '00 or '01,Dexcool was started in GM vehicles.

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:07 pm

many owners of Dexcool vehicles switch over to g-05 when they change their coolant

SavageUrge · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:21 pm

Okey-dokey - thanks gents! Didn't mean to hijack this thread :twisted:

...carry on! :lol:

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:34 pm

its all cool. i would rather a thread get hijacked and provide useful information then useless information. Not knowing what antifreeze your vehicle uses, could be very costly :evil:

valvestem · **Joined:** Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:01 pm **Posts:** 222

Please see the excerpt below for color info. There are a few BOLD words about halfway down pertaining to DC HOAT Antifreeze color.

Technical Service Bulletin 05-2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PRINT VERSION

The Color of Antifreeze
Until recently, the color of the most commonly used antifreezes for both light duty and heavy-duty engine cooling systems was predominately green. Its change interval is normally about every two years or 30,000 miles (50,000 km) of use. Then, long life (LLC) / extended life (ELC) coolant / antifreeze was introduced in an effort to reduce maintenance costs, downtime and environmental disposal costs and issues. With the introduction of this totally new concept, antifreeze manufacturers wanted to differentiate this new product from existing antifreezes. To accomplish this, they introduced different colored dyes for their LLC / ELC products. Orange and red dyes were used first; now it appears there may be virtually no limit to the different dye colors that may be used.

The purpose of this bulletin is to describe the dye colors currently available, the chemical technologies being used and which vehicle manufacturers are using which technology based on the information that is readily available at the time this bulletin was published. The member companies of the FMC are confident this issue is not static and new technologies and dye colors will continue to be introduced in the future.

Antifreeze is used in cooling systems to both lower the freeze point of water and raise its boiling point. It is also used as a carrier for different types of additives such as sodium silicate to protect aluminum from corrosion, anti-foaming agents and other corrosion inhibitors. Although straight antifreeze actually freezes and boils quicker than tap water, when mixed with water in the proper proportions (a 50% / 50% mix is ideal) in a cooling system, it greatly increases the cooling system's ability to perform its designed function of removing heat from critical engine parts and to enhance the service life of the various cooling system components.

Inorganic Acid Technology (IAT) is the chemical composition for the traditional antifreezes that are green in color. An IAT can be used with either ethylene glycol (EG) or propylene glycol (PG). The normal IAT service life is two years or 30,000 miles (50,000 km).

Organic Acid Technology (OAT) was the first LLC / ELC introduced in North America in 1994. OAT antifreeze had been widely used in Europe before its introduction in North America. OAT can be either EG or PG but is mostly EG based. Its first dye colors were orange and red. These dye colors are still used by General Motors and Caterpillar. Green, pink and blue have been added to the list of available OAT antifreezes. It is recommended that OAT not be mixed with any other antifreeze technology. The normal OAT antifreeze service life is 5 years or 150,000 miles (250,000 km).

Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) is a combination of IAT and OAT with nitrites added. This makes HOAT suitable for use in both light duty and heavy duty systems. Currently, two manufacturers are using HOAT for their vehicles. Daimler/Chrysler's version is dyed orange and contains 10% recycled antifreeze. Ford Motor Company's version is dyed yellow and does not contain any recycled antifreeze. Both of these HOAT antifreezes use the marketing designator of GO-5. They are compatible with each other but mixing them with IAT or OAT is not recommended. The normal HOAT antifreeze service life is 5 years or 150,000 miles (250,000 km).

Nitrated Organic Acid Technology (NOAT) is an OAT with nitrates added. This makes NOAT also suitable for use in both light duty and heavy duty systems. NOAT and HOAT are very similar in performance characteristics. Currently, no OEM vehicle manufacturer is using NOAT. The normal NOAT service life is 5 years or 150,000 miles (250,000 km).

Since antifreeze is clear when it is manufactured, and water is clear, dye is used to color the antifreeze for identification and marketing purposes. The color of antifreeze is no longer an accurate indicator as to whether it is an IAT, OAT, HOAT or NOAT formulation. Further, some antifreeze manufacturers market a "universal" antifreeze they say is compatible with all OAT, HOAT and NOAT formulations. These "universal" formulas are not for use with IAT and they will not convert an IAT to an LLC/ELC antifreeze. Mixing IAT with OAT, HOAT or NOAT antifreezes will not damage your vehicle's cooling system; however the mixture will negate the long life/extended life attributes of these formulations.

In conclusion, there are currently two oranges, two reds, green, dark green, yellow, blue, blue-green, clear and pink dye colors available. With this variety of dye colors and more to come, the service technician's ability to properly service and maintain light duty and heavy duty cooling systems properly will be greatly challenged. It is imperative the technician be fully aware of what the vehicle manufacturers' requirements for antifreeze are and those recommendations be carefully followed. For further information regarding cooling system maintenance, refer to TSB's 88-1R3, 89-1R2, 97-2 and 02-1.

For additional information, contact:

Filter Manufacturers Council
P.O. Box 13966
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709-3966
Phone: 919/406-8817 Fax: 919/406-1306
www.filtercouncil.org
Administered by Motor & Equipment Manufacturers Association

Created April 2005

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Cacher123 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:54 pm

valvestem · **Joined:** Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:01 pm **Posts:** 222

Cacher123 wrote:

:?

???

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:40 pm

.... confused.

Just want to know what fluid to buy to change my antifreeze.

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:20 pm

the stuff in the link i posted....its like 10 bucks at auto zone. it comes in a gold bottle... Zerex G-05

JeepBeat · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:14 am

Guys, thanks for the quality info. on the coolant color and brand. I know it will help me when time to change up.

Anyway, in regards to my original issue on this topic, I have found what the green stains in the snow are............

Yesterday, we had another snow storm, 30+ cm. The snow was rubbing under the skid plates when I backed the Jeep out of my driveway to blow the snow out. Once I was done, I drove down the street to turn around, and when backing up, noticed a little bit of green slush fall on the road where I had turned. When I drove back into my yard, I looked under the Liberty to see a bunch of snow melting off the exhaust pipe, the piece I think just past the front wheels, before the catalitic converter? Whether it is the dirty pipe, exhaust residue, the undercoating oil, or whatever, the snow was melting on the pipe and dripping a greenish color onto the snow in my driveway. This explains why it was only happening every now and then........it was only happening when we had a storm, as the snow was high enough under the Jeep to get stuck up in the skids and around the exhaust pipes. Now I am at ease, but as why it would drip a green color is beyond me. I assume just the right mix of dirt, oil, etc. is giving it the green tint?? Any drippage out the tailpipe, is your usual dirty water color and soot that drips on the ground, from condensation.

The mystery drips have been diagnosed. Any ideas on the green color off the exhaust pipe???

WoodysKJ · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:47 am

Not sure if this is of any use or not, but...

When the wife's 02 had a condenser AC leak, there was a greenish tint to it. The freon escapes as a gas, but the oil in the freon that keeps all the parts lubed in the compressor seamed to have a florecent green color to it. I assum that is to help locate leaks. Anyway, your AC should be cycling, even in cold weather, when you think it should not be. When using the heater in your KJ do you notice the compressor coming on and off? It should be running just like it was 90 degrees out there.

The AC compressor will stop working if the freon level is too low as a safety messure to prevent the compressor from locking up and causing more damage. So if your AC compressor is NOT cycling even in cold temps, then you might have a freon leak and that is the green tint you are seeing.

I am not sure where the ac coolant lines run and what else it could be I just remeber seeing that green tint on the floor of my garage and the mounting bracket of the AC condenser

JeepBeat · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:54 pm

How often does the condenser kick in? I notice something kicking in every little bit. Where could I look under the hood for leaks? If I turned on the AC, and it worked fine, would that eliminate a leak? The AC worked fine all summer with no issues. Just wondering how and where I should check just to see if it was a leak. As before, I only notice the color on the ground when snow has melted off the exhaust, the piece almost under the driver's seat. When the ground is snowy and there is no snow piled under the Jeep, there is no evidence of any stains on the snow. Weird though. I am glad that I have found out where the drip is coming from, but yeah, that color is concerning. Thanks for any help you can offer.....

Strange Mind Games or Not??

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