Feb. 08 Diesel Power

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

litton wrote:

Still it's Italian....can you speak Alfa's. Every one I knew that had the Alfa had an extra for spare parts. :twisted:

Kinda made me think of French cars. :twisted:

The GM diesel abominations adapted from a gas V8 in the 70's were made in America. Therefore Cummins diesels suck?

Uffe · **Posted:** Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:48 am

litton wrote:

Still it's Italian....can you speak Alfa's. Every one I knew that had the Alfa had an extra for spare parts. :twisted:

Kinda made me think of French cars. :twisted:

Nono bad comparison. Alphas are made just to mainly look good and perform well (0-60). Not made for reliability. VM makes industrial and marine engines too. I haven't seen an Alpha Romeo generator engine or boat yet!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:13 am

VM Motori makes a much better product than anything French. Case in point, how many L.O.S.T. members ever owned a French SUV :!:

Every time I board an Airbus Plane I prey and hope it holds together and some electronic part does not catch on fire

Besides have you ever looked at the rear suspension on some of the Alfas :?:

Lets let VM Motori make great engines and let Alfa make prototype fenders by beating the sheet metal on tree stumps with hammers :idea:

Steve

Both make good food and wine

Uffe · **Posted:** Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:09 am

Hehe, as jeremy clarkson once said:

When the French and the Italian come together to make dinner it's a marvelous piece of success. When they come together to make a car, run!

litton · **Posted:** Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:30 am

Threeweight wrote:

litton wrote:

Still it's Italian....can you speak Alfa's. Every one I knew that had the Alfa had an extra for spare parts. :twisted:

Kinda made me think of French cars. :twisted:

The GM diesel abominations adapted from a gas V8 in the 70's were made in America. Therefore Cummins diesels suck?

Actually, I tried to make a joke......guess it failed.

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:33 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

VM Motori makes a much better product than anything French. Case in point, how many L.O.S.T. members ever owned a French SUV :!:

Every time I board an Airbus Plane I prey and hope it holds together and some electronic part does not catch on fire

Umm, Wasn't the entire line of AMC Eagles and the Jeep XJ platform designed while Renault owned AMC/Jeep?

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

dgeist wrote:

Umm, Wasn't the entire line of AMC Eagles and the Jeep XJ platform designed while Renault owned AMC/Jeep?

Yep, and I believe the first generation Grand Cherokee was designed under Renault as well. In his memoirs, Lee Iacoca said he bought Jeep to get access to the Cherokee/Grand Cherokee, which he suspected would be huge sales successes and ahead of the curve of other auto makers on SUV's. He was right.

Sorry if I missed the joke. When I think of Italian engineering I think of Ducati motorcycles, Berreta firearms, and Ferrari cars, things that most assuredly pretty awesome.

Well, and Monica Belluci ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Bellucci

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:23 pm

Detroit Diesel made two stroke engines when the OLDSMOBILE 350 was turned into the troublesome 5.7 Liter diesel with a weak block and crank. This engine is what soured many Americans and Canadians on Diesel cars.
The 60 series Detroit Diesel (the first electronically controlled OTR Truck Engine) was designed by a Cummins engineer who jumped ship and was fired by Detroit Diesel after the 60 Series went into production. Roger Penske made Detroit Diesel into what it is today and some of the wisdom learned with the 60 Series was passed onto VM Motori.

Steve :wink:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:00 am

Back in the days when the only thing AMC Renault built that kept running was a JEEP. I remember a guy who tried to have his Renault Alliance stolen and collect the insurance by locking the keys in it and duct taping a Slim-Jim to the roof. Days later he came back and the car was still there with the keys in it, but the Slim-Jim was gone :!:

Steve

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:45 am

warp2diesel wrote:

Detroit Diesel made two stroke engines when the OLDSMOBILE 350 was turned into the troublesome 5.7 Liter diesel with a weak block and crank. This engine is what soured many Americans and Canadians on Diesel cars.
The 60 series Detroit Diesel (the first electronically controlled OTR Truck Engine) was designed by a Cummins engineer who jumped ship and was fired by Detroit Diesel after the 60 Series went into production. Roger Penske made Detroit Diesel into what it is today and some of the wisdom learned with the 60 Series was passed onto VM Motori.

Steve :wink:

The later 5.7 diesels weren't bad engines, but the damage was done by then. I retired one with over 200k on it a while back. They rushed them to market. The dealers weren't ready to support them. And many of them were bought by people with no diesel experience. Oh wait, that sounds like the CRD. :wink:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:24 am

I did forget about the X block 5.7L. The 6.2L based on the big block was a much better engine. Then they made it into the 6.5L and had some lower end problems, but I drove one with 320,000 with a lower end that was replaced around 60,000.
Most of my experience is with pre-TDI VW engines that got better with improvements that were learned along the way.
Most of the lessons learned with our CRDs has been undoing the BEAN COUNTER HEXES that any new product has to go through.
The 60 Series Detroit Diesel is a good engine, but in its early days I remember jokes about advertising posters leaking oil onto the showroom floor.
Like most of the Western World (except the French) we learn from errors and produce a quality product.

Since most of the errors are BEAN COUNTER HEXES, let me share an Idea that I proposed to a couple Chrysler Execs I met on an airport shuttle bus that they loved,"
Move the Accounting department to Deli India"

Steve

chadhargis · **Posted:** Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:39 pm

My parents had a 6.2 normally asperated diesel in a custom van back in the early '80's. That sucker was a HOSS. It was built from the ground up as a diesel, not a converted gas motor. It was actually a Detroit Diesel engine. It's the same motor they use in the military HUMVEE to this day, just punched out to 6.5l.

I recall one morning when I went out to start my car (an RX-7) on an unusually cold day for Tennessee. It was about -10 degrees, and we don't get winterized diesel here that I know of, just #2.

My RX-7 wouldn't start...finally drained the battery trying. Went back in and told my Dad I needed a ride to school. He hopped in his Mercury Grand Marquis....it wouldn't start either.

So...that left the old 6.2 diesel. We hopped in, turned the key on, waited on the glow plug light to go out...waited....waited....waited....waited....waited some more....waited yet more....then the light went out. First crank and it was running.

The only bad thing about that van was that it was a SLUG. Dangerously slow. I can remember times trying to turn left across traffic and having to give up and turn right instead because you'd stomp the pedal to the floor and it would start moving as if being pushed by two guys. Other than that, it towed well, got 24mpg on the highway with a high top roof, and never failed to start.

We ended up getting rid of it becasue my Mom hated getting diesel on her hands and shoes at truck stops. There were very few auto diesel stations back then.

That van started my love for diesels that has endured ever since.

Feb. 08 Diesel Power

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