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Which one is best?
'02 Jeep Grand Cherokee 73%  73%  [ 43 ]
'02 Nissan Pathfinder 19%  19%  [ 11 ]
'02 Dodge Dakota Sport 8%  8%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 59
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 Post subject: Need help on vehicle decision (Long) ACCIDENT REPORT!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:35 pm 
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I know it's been......uhh, i think FOREVER since I posted here. I've missed you guys. I apologize for my extended absence. Unfortunately, in the time that has passed since the last time I posted some very tragic events have come to pass. Long story short, my Liberty is no longer with us. I promise I'll put up a thread with all the details as soon as I'm done here.

Now for the reason that I require your assistance. Being as the KJ was totaled, I'm now shopping for a new vehicle. I know it's going to be hard to get an unbiased opinion from a bunch of fellow Jeepers, but I know you guys won't steer me wrong, right? :wink: Basically, I've been looking for a new car for the last week or so. Top spot on the list was obviously a Jeep, a '99 - '04 Grand Cherokee (WJ) to be exact. I've done a lot of research on JU and came to the conclusion that a '02 or newer Laredo with Quadra-Drive and the 4.7L V8 would be the best option for me. Regretfully, there aren't many Laredos to be had with the V8. I could choose to either settle for the anemic (at least compared to power/weight ratio of the 3.7L in the Libby) but dependable 4.0L I6, or find a Limited and deal with the possible issue of the Dual Climate Control system giving me issues. I chose the latter option as I found the adjustable lumbar, plush leather interior and standard 6-CD changer with steering wheel controls to be more to my liking. All three vehicle that made the list are 4x4 with ABS.

So here's the cream of the crop out of the WJs that are in my price bracket:
2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Patriot Blue Metallic with tan interior
4.7L V8
Quadra-Drive
88,595mi.


$10,877.80 out the door, including taxes, title, license and doc. fees.

The truck is in amazing shape except for a sticky throttle pedal, some chewed wood trim, a broken blend door and some minor scratches. The dealership offered to fix the climate controls, compound the paint and fix the throttle pedal at no cost to me, so that certainly makes me happy. They're also offering a 3month, 3,000mi. warranty on it. I'm very comfortable with the dealership and even left a deposit on the truck. This truck is at a DCH Honda dealer about 5 min. from my house and they really seem to stand behind what they sell, no matter what make it is.

That said, I'll move on to the other two options.

2002 Nissan Pathfinder
Silver on Black interior
3.5L VQ V6
5spd Manual
52,435mi.


$9,995.00 asking price, didn't get into negotiations yet.

I'm not sure about the 4WD system, so that's really the only thing holding me back. I know the WJ has the vari-lock diffs front, center and rear, so no matter what, the wheel that has the most grip is where the power will go, but I'm not sure on the type of diffs that are in the Pathfinder. It's super clean, and the paint is in really good shape and it also has a 6-CD changer, but no steering wheel controls (not at a ll a deal-breaker). I've always wanted a manual and I hear the VQ engines are practically legendary as far as reliability goes. I figure not having an auto transmission to worry about should help too. Also, this truck is at strictly used car dealership, no service department or anything, so there's no warranty to speak of.

Finally:
2002 Dodge Dakota Sport
White on Grey interior
4x4
4.7L V8
55,636mi.


$10,990 asking price, didn't go into negotiations yet.

This truck is at a dedicated Dodge dealership and also comes with a 3 month, 3,000 mi. warranty. It's really clean except for some minor bumper damage that I'm not really worried about since it's plastic and nothing will rust as a result of the damage. It has a toneau(sp?) cover and windshield and side window visors. It's the club cab, so there's a rudimentary back seat in it, but I'd probably just use it more for storage :-P The whole reason I'm so intent on something with a really good 4WD system is that I'm moving out to PA for school so I need to make sure I'll be able to get through the snow without any troubles. (No-ABS in the snow is what cost me my Jeep) This truck has drums in the rear, but they're still ABS, I'm just not sure how much i trust them. I've also heard that the road noise can be pretty bad in the Dakotas.

Slight modifications to any vehicle to fix known issues are certainly a possibility. Such as upgrading the hubs on the pathfinder or putting LSDs in the Dakota, as long as I'm not looking at more than a $1,000-$1,500 bill.

So that's that. If I could get some input I'd REALLY appreciate it. I'm having a really hard time making this decision as I liked all three of these trucks a lot. So if you've got any info regarding safety, reliability, etc. I'd love to hear it. Thanks in advance fellow Jeepers, you guys have always been good to me and I want to let you know your help is always nice to have. I'll keep you guys posted on whatever I get, and I'm sure I'll be checking back in every now and then just to see how the SFA swaps and V8 swaps and trail runs and all that good stuff is going.

I guess I'll put a poll at the top of this to see how that goes. If you vote, let me know what you voted for and why, thanks.

Best Regards,
Devin

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Last edited by SavageSS27 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:04 am 
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I had a 98 Pathfinder before the liberty, it had the 3.3L, but I did have the five speed manual. I loved every minute of driving that truck. Never one engine problem. Hope you're happy with whatever you choose.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:12 am 
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Sorry to hear about the totaled KJ. I'm a die hard Jeeper so I picked the 02 GC. We bought an 02 GC new. Great vehicle, the only issue is with the front rotors which warp out eventually due to the bad design. You can buy complete new aftermarket rotor assemblies to eliminate the problem but we just replaced the rotors and pads the last time.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:44 am 
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Here are a few pics of the carnage. Keep in mind the rear axle was replaced in my last accident when I was rear-ended at a stoplight. So I don't know how well the replacement axle was welded in, that might have had a lot to do with all the damage. Oh, just a creepy fact, both accidents were on Dec. 27th at about lunch time exactly one year apart.

Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:30 am 
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WOW :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:48 am 
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Really sorry about the Liberty, but the important thing is that you're OK! I gotta ask though; what happened!? :shock: :?:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:32 am 
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Wow man.

Glad you are OK though... That's really all that matters.


Edit: I re-read your post and want to change my selection to the Jeep... Buy the Jeep and try to steer clear of the used car dealer unless they will provide some customer references of service. I'm a bit biased but I have never had good luck with buying from a strictly used car lot.

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Last edited by sleeve84028 on Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:08 am 
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Glad you are OK. Rear looks pretty bad!

Regarding your poll, I've always liked the way the original Durangos looked, but is it functional, not much, they don't have low gear.
Nissan is also good, strong and lasts long. It is a difficult choice, and good luck.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:42 am 
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Wow, sorry about the Libby. Glad your okay. What happened? Were you rear-ended?

If your were to get the WJ, I would stick with the I6. The V8 is a huge gas-guzzler. What about Wrangler or another KJ. You could just swap all the parts into the new KJ (Franky, tires, wheels). Assuming nothing was damaged.

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 Post subject: none of the above
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:44 am 
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If you really liked your Liberty buy another one, used or new.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:11 am 
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get the grand.

then put a 4 inch lift on it with an arb.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:12 am 
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I see those last two pictures and I said "What the *%@#?"
Hopefully no one was seriously hurt. Sorry about your Liberty.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:29 am 
jeepkj02 wrote:
Wow, sorry about the Libby. Glad your okay. What happened? Were you rear-ended?

If your were to get the WJ, I would stick with the I6. The V8 is a huge gas-guzzler. What about Wrangler or another KJ. You could just swap all the parts into the new KJ (Franky, tires, wheels). Assuming nothing was damaged.


the I6 and V8 are about equal, gas mileage wise. I'd go V8 to avoid the leak issues with the I6 that will come after about 100k miles.

It's funny, because a buddy and I were just discussing this the other day...if the KJ were to meet an untimely demise, I'd replace it with (in this order)

WJ Laredo V8 - as long as it had 4 low...I know some models didn't have 4wd low

'05-06 KJ Renegade with a manual trans (tie)

99-02 Isuzu Trooper (tie)

'01-04 Nissan Xterra Supercharged

For me, in your shoes, it's a tossup between the WJ and the Dakota. Is the Dakota a club cab or a quad cab, and are you gonna wheel what you buy? IMO the quad cab is just too stinkin long to play off road, even lifted. the Nissan is a nice vehicle...but IMO there's probably something wrong with an '02 Pathfinder if they're only asking $10,000 for it, unless it's a bare-bones model...is it a salvage title? I didn't think Nissans depreciated as quickly as Mopar products :lol: I know the Aisin automatic hubs that come on most Japanese trucks are troublesome, and i'm 99% sure it'd be the same parts for the Warn Premium hubs that I put on my Montero and Trooper, so it'd be less than a $100 investment. Parts cost on Japanese rigs are usually up there, too...a Jeep will nickel-and-dime you to death, but when something goes wrong with a Nissan or Isuzu, WHAM...it's a big chunk o' change.

Also...get Moog upper and lower balljoints in the Dakota if you get it, they had as many issues as the KJs had with the lowers.

By the way...I didn't know KJ's had four-wheel steering;) That really sucks...it was a REALLY nice Liberty. I can send you my OEM shocks/springs and you can send me your Frankenlift parts taht are "Savageable", right?:D


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:49 am 
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Id say another KJ or a wrangler or the WJ

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:02 pm 
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I voted for the GC but I wll admit that my opinion is biased towards Jeep and American Brands.

If you really liked the KJ then look for another.

I am glad that you are ok and were not injured in the accident.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:08 pm 
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When it comes to used vehicles it is always nice to have a warranty and a service group to stand behind it...that said most used warranties suck...I'd go with the GC as it was already pointed out the Nissan sounds low.

I'd check any of them for where the previous owner was located as there are tons of auction cars the used delaers are getting from down south that have been flooded... :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:23 pm 
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Having owned a 2002 Dakota, I would opt for the WJ. The main reason is availability of aftermarket products. Dodge never seemed to use the same suspension for very long on the Dakota. Therefor, the aftermarket vendors have precious little to offer in the way of lifts. With the lifts that were available, most generated problems, usually steering and braking issues. Lots of folks that lifted (even body lifts) ended up returning to stock.

I too would go for the I-6. Lots of aftermarket support and just a good motor for longevity.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:53 pm 
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The only reason I'm leary about the Dakota is that I'm almost 100% sure that it's got open diffs, making it absolutely useless in the snow, which is why i need the 4wd in the first place. I'll type some more later, I'm at work now. If anyone has specifics on the 4wd system that came with the 5sp in the pathy let me know. I need to know if it's more like the Quadra-Drive in the WJ where as long as one wheel has grip, i'll still go forward, or if it's more like open diffs where if one wheel looses grip, i go nowhere. To answer TbJunkie's question, yes, it's a club cab, but no, I don't plan to wheel anything I buy for a while. Now, being in PA at an automotive school, plans may certainly change :twisted: But I need to keep a DD that's in good shape for obvious reasons. The Dakota would make a good parts truck in that it has a toneau cover and a bed liner, but I'm sure there's plenty of people that could help me get big parts from the store if i need it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:06 pm 
Like most any other Japanese vehicle, it's probably an Aisin Warner, and is plenty tough. Tera makes a 4:1 low range for them last I checked.

BTW...I thought the last year for that body style Pathfinder was '01 and they rehashed it after that...Turns out otherwise, that's probably the reason for the low resale. lookin at carpoint they go for 11k-13k, so I'd reconsider...the new Pathfinder didn't come out until '05! WOW. Maybe an '00-04 Pathfinder would be added to my "maybe" list if the KJ died:P

Open diffs have always served me well in the snow, but I've never owned a pickup for any length of time before. My dad's '05 Colorado's got a limited slip rear diff, and in 2wd it's a HELL of a lot scarier than my KJ in the same snowy/rainy conditions...but then we're comparing apples to KJs, and the Colorado's still got the junk-arse General OEM tires.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:05 pm 
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OK, so here's the skinny on the accident. Basically, I was up visiting my father, and we left his house to go pick up his wife's new guns. Both he and his wife do Cowboy Mounted Shooting, so for x-mas, he got her some Ruger New Vaquero Montados. Very nice guns, stainless steel, .45cal single action.

Anyway, i digress. We were on our way to pick up said firearms and it started to rain. Now, there had already been at least a foot of snowfall up in his neck of the woods in NH and it was starting to melt. No biggie, all the roads were clear, just wet. As we were approaching our exit on the highway, the rain turned to snow. As anyone here probably knows, that makes for some REALLY slippery conditions.

Now on a smaller local road, with a speed limit of 35, we round a corner and crest a hill. There's probably about 1/8th inch of snowfall collected on the road now, so it's all very pretty :? . I notice that the traffic at the bottom of the hill (a good 400yds. away) is slowing down. I figured I'd play the cautious driver and start to slow down (from 30, 5 under the posted speed limit) before I ran into any issues. Well you can guess how well that went. As soon as I touched the brakes they locked up and the truck went sideways.

Unfortunately, this road didn't only slope downwards, but also to the left (into oncoming traffic). I did everything I could to regain control, but the truck wouldn't respond. I steered into the skid hoping to get across the road and into the snow piled on the shoulder (about 18in. deep) figuring that would be enough to slow me down without hitting a tree or anything else. That didn't work, so I tried cutting the wheel the other way to try to get the truck to spin, thinking that might slow it down, again, nothing. I was watching the car in the opposing lane come up the hill in slow motion, as all these things do.

For some reason, the driver of the other car didn't feel it was necessary to hit the brakes or even steer to avoid me until we were about 20ft. apart. She ended up sideswiping me and continuing a good 10+ ft into the snow on the side of the road, so it was obvious (at least to me) that she was still going at a decent rate. I don't know if she tried to gun it to get around me or what, but it didn't work :( .

As you can see, this impact was enough to tear the axle from the shock mount and the lower link, pull the driveshaft out of the t-case, snap the universal joint, bend a lower control arm, flatten a tire, dislodge all the fender flares and rear bumper, tear the side molding off of the rear door and shatter the mirror. Who knows what other kind of damage there was, but I'm sure it was extensive.

Luckily, everyone was fine. Needless to say, she was shaken up, and I was pissed, but I guess that's just me being disappointed in myself for not being able to do anything. If there's one thing I hate the most, it's feeling helpless.

Her Subaru seems to have fared well, but I didn't really get a good look at it, being in the snow and all. It looks like all her damage was cosmetic, bringing to mind the question of why the KJ was so badly banged up. But my guess would be sub-par repairs to the rear axle the first time around. (When I was rear-ended last Dec. 27th on my way to my dad's)

To answer the questions of all the vultures out there (I'm just playing guys, I'd do the same thing), i don't really have much off of the truck. The front end was buried in snow and there was a Merc. Diesel parked in front of me when I got to the truck to strip it, so the lights and tow hooks were unsalvageable. I prolly could have gotten to them by laying in the snow after digging out the front end, but it just wasn't worth it. I did manage to grab all my stereo components including HU, speakers, tweeters, subwoofer/amp and RCA patch cable. I grabbed all the loose stuff too, flashlights, manual, maps, quarts of oil I had in the back (just in case), lithium grease, etc. Oh, and the fitted rubber "Jeep" floormats, which I'll consider selling.

As for the stuff that wasn't on the truck at the time, that I'll be willing to part with, I've got the original intake and airbox and the original wheels. So if anyone's interested, feel free to shoot me a PM with an offer.

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