talk about giving the liberty a bad name!!

Dutchy · **Posted:** Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:38 am

k99jk99j wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

WGNMANinaRENEGADE wrote:

i gotta question dutchy's report. i got the rene, w/ "locker" or trutrac, is this the one you're talking about?
anyhow, i went to 80k before any service, did it myself, w/ a quality manufacturer recommended lube. never had any of the stuff mentioned happen. you can 'get away' with a heck of a lot more than most people think in this respect.
admittedly, the axel is 'slow' to come out of lock when leaving 4-lo. but that's about it.
maybe it's just that i'm used to driving something locked in the rear, used to have a g-wagon welded tite!

i guess i just get a little miffed with folks who buy equipment then don't even try to learn what it's for and how to use it.

it's the standard trac lock, a clutch driven limited slip diff that comes standard on most KJ's and it needs more maintenance and a friction modifier.
no! most kj's came with open diffs!
Do some research on the internet and you will find several un-explained sudden loss off controll, fishtailing and groaning rear axles when driving away issues and they all relate to the same thing, the rear differential.
yeah! while your at it do research on all vehicles. they all have unexplained loss of control stories! do to owners not willing to accept the problem is themselves!
As long as people keep on blaming driving skills this problem will not be adressed correctly and it's such an easy fix to correct it, just change the rear diff oil more often and add friction modifier.
this won't work on most kj's do to them having open diffs!
What would have happened to the ball-joint faillures if people blamed KJ drivers for dammaging them by hitting curbs?
Apples and oranges, you cannot compare the two. there was actually something wrong with the ball joint!
Instead of helping your fellow Liberty owners with a problem, you guys are blaming them for their problems, what is this all about?
it is about reality. if these people can't see that their "loss of control" is their in-ability to drive a rear wheel drive car correctly, then they are going to have more problems than this in life! mike

All KJ's outside the US come with the LSD and the ones in the US with the offroad pack have them, the open diff's don't have this problem as they don’t have trac lock.

I.

_UnLiMiTeD_ · **Posted:** Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:49 am

mine comes with the offroad package and doesnt have it

daspes · **Posted:** Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:58 am

Dutchy wrote:

All KJ's outside the US come with the LSD and the ones in the US with the offroad pack have them, the open diff's don't have this problem as they don’t have trac lock.

Looks like there is some corporate damage control going on here and I'm not surprised after Lost was the driving force behind the ball joint recall’s

I have seen this happen before, a group of corporate staff screen web sites containing their products and ridicule anyone who finds a fault in the product,It's a shame you people play with our lives to make more profit.

The article (and remarks) that started this conversation was strictly pertaining to North American KJ's. Your comment concerning KJ's in Europe having LSD isn't relevant.

Secondly, I'm not aware of , and someone correct me if I'm wrong, any regular site members her work for the Chrysler, Jeep, The Company, or the Man either.

Lastly, I agree with pretty much everyone esle's post here. Even if you locked up an (open) diff while driving, unless it was a high speed scenario, the chance of you flipping, or having any type of accident would more than likely result in the operator of the vehicle not knowing how to control their car in an emergency situation, as to an inherent design flaw.

Dutchy · **Posted:** Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:14 pm

daspes wrote:

Quote:

The article (and remarks) that started this conversation was strictly pertaining to North American KJ's. Your comment concerning KJ's in Europe having LSD isn't relevant.

Secondly, I'm not aware of , and someone correct me if I'm wrong, any regular site members her work for the Chrysler, Jeep, The Company, or the Man either.

Lastly, I agree with pretty much everyone esle's post here. Even if you locked up an (open) diff while driving, unless it was a high speed scenario, the chance of you flipping, or having any type of accident would more than likely result in the operator of the vehicle not knowing how to control their car in an emergency situation, as to an inherent design flaw.

I'm sorry to hear that you think that this conversation is stricktly pertaining to North America and that the rest of the world should shut up.

Jus to make sure that you understand that it is also a problem for you guys I put in a link to a treat and a poll about this so you know that this is also your problem.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... lsd#217371

Good driving skills have nothing to do with it as it happens so fast that you can not respond in time, the rear just shoots out without warning.

Service your LSD and add friction modifier as soon as it starts grinding in tight corners.

k99jk99j · **Posted:** Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:00 pm

Dutchy wrote:

k99jk99j wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

WGNMANinaRENEGADE wrote:

i gotta question dutchy's report. i got the rene, w/ "locker" or trutrac, is this the one you're talking about?
anyhow, i went to 80k before any service, did it myself, w/ a quality manufacturer recommended lube. never had any of the stuff mentioned happen. you can 'get away' with a heck of a lot more than most people think in this respect.
admittedly, the axel is 'slow' to come out of lock when leaving 4-lo. but that's about it.
maybe it's just that i'm used to driving something locked in the rear, used to have a g-wagon welded tite!

i guess i just get a little miffed with folks who buy equipment then don't even try to learn what it's for and how to use it.

it's the standard trac lock, a clutch driven limited slip diff that comes standard on most KJ's and it needs more maintenance and a friction modifier.
no! most kj's came with open diffs!
Do some research on the internet and you will find several un-explained sudden loss off controll, fishtailing and groaning rear axles when driving away issues and they all relate to the same thing, the rear differential.
yeah! while your at it do research on all vehicles. they all have unexplained loss of control stories! do to owners not willing to accept the problem is themselves!
As long as people keep on blaming driving skills this problem will not be adressed correctly and it's such an easy fix to correct it, just change the rear diff oil more often and add friction modifier.
this won't work on most kj's do to them having open diffs!
What would have happened to the ball-joint faillures if people blamed KJ drivers for dammaging them by hitting curbs?
Apples and oranges, you cannot compare the two. there was actually something wrong with the ball joint!
Instead of helping your fellow Liberty owners with a problem, you guys are blaming them for their problems, what is this all about?
it is about reality. if these people can't see that their "loss of control" is their in-ability to drive a rear wheel drive car correctly, then they are going to have more problems than this in life! mike

k99jk99j I've just checked your 900+ posts
Look to the left i only have 119 posts!

Guys just check it for yourself, go to k99jk99j's profile (if it's still there) it still is mike and read the posts, you will find who's name is on top of his paycheck.
the name on the top of my paycheck is the municipality i work for as a firefighter. my only crime is loving my liberty my cherokee and my wrangler! also i am not all pro jeep. i think the compass patriot and commander are wastes! and i think the ball joint recall needed to happen earlier!

I have seen this happen before, a group of corporate staff screen web sites containing their products and ridicule anyone who finds a fault in the product,Do you have black helicopters flying over your house also?

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:13 pm

How did this go from talking about the handeling of a vehicle to who someone works for??
Heck will someone next be after me just due to the fact I live in an area where about 30/ 40 Jeep employees live, I work for the state which gave them ( Jeep) incentives to stay in Toledo, live with 10 miles of where they build all the Wranglers/ KKs :cry:

Nitros etc.

This is suppose to be a great format in which to discuss things about what we all share ( our Jeeps) , not about pity stuff like whats been on this thread :roll:

ok I will shut up now! :wink:

Tom

WGNMANinaRENEGADE · **Posted:** Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:19 pm

Dutchy wrote:

WGNMANinaRENEGADE wrote:

i gotta question dutchy's report. i got the rene, w/ "locker" or trutrac, is this the one you're talking about?
anyhow, i went to 80k before any service, did it myself, w/ a quality manufacturer recommended lube. never had any of the stuff mentioned happen. you can 'get away' with a heck of a lot more than most people think in this respect.
admittedly, the axel is 'slow' to come out of lock when leaving 4-lo. but that's about it.
maybe it's just that i'm used to driving something locked in the rear, used to have a g-wagon welded tite!

i guess i just get a little miffed with folks who buy equipment then don't even try to learn what it's for and how to use it.

It's not a truetrac, it's the standard trac lock, a clutch driven limited slip diff that comes standard on most KJ's and it needs more maintenance and a friction modifier.
Your Detroit truetrac is a mod that has been bought and build in later, you can not compare them as they are totally different devices and have a totally different way of operating.

Imagine you driving on the highway in the wet, enjoying your bucket of slurpy, listening to some singing cowboy on the radio, you push the trottle a bit deaper to keep up with traffic and just at that light bend where you always drive trough at 60 mph suddenly your rear end locks without warning, that's what it is like and you will be praying or/and sh*tting your self if you have not got ESP to help you out.

It's not every KJ which will experience this problem and most off them are fine but there are KJ's out there with this problem and owners who are not aware of it.
Do some research on the internet and you will find several un-explained sudden loss off controll, fishtailing and groaning rear axles when driving away issues and they all relate to the same thing, the rear differential.

As long as people keep on blaming driving skills this problem will not be adressed correctly and it's such an easy fix to correct it, just change the rear diff oil more often and add friction modifier.

What would have happened to the ball-joint faillures if people blamed KJ drivers for dammaging them by hitting curbs?

Instead of helping your fellow Liberty owners with a problem, you guys are blaming them for their problems, what is this all about?

hey guy, i asked around a bit, got put onto some of this info. by the way, mine is indeed trac-loc, like you say, i screwed up typing the first time.
and it DOES ABSOLUTELY need the l-s additive, or friction modifier as you say. thanks for my wake up call!
guess what i'm doin this afternoon?
fortunatley i only got a coupla thousand miles without it, and only sounds i've noticed lately are what i believe to be brake noise.
figured i better get on here and help finish settin the record straight!

WGNMANinaRENEGADE · **Posted:** Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:17 pm

DONE DEAL! while checking fluids and such, i added about 4-6 oz [gotta account for spillage! and be careful where you spill, that sit stinks!] of champion friction modifier/limited slip diff additive. my groan is gone [had much fun in the warm indiana mud getting it 'circulated good'].
again, and as always, thank y'all much.
y'all saved my arse again...
tho, i must add, it was awful odd, that my groan did not become obnoxious till the mention of such things in this thread. who's got the voo-doo!!??

next?
ome springs and what's his names a- arm!
then some real tires. probably geolanders as big as can fit underneath me.hopefully about a 275/70 or so...

Dutchy · **Posted:** Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:07 am

WGNMANinaRENEGADE it shows you have real character to come back to set things straight, I appreciate that!

I don't mind taking some flack, as long as I keep one fellow KJ driver safe it makes it all worth for me.

For the ones who are not sure if they have a Track Lock (ltd slipp diff), you can check this yourself.

Jack both rear wheels off the ground, turn one wheel by hand, if the other wheel also turns in the same direction you have Track Lock, if the other wheel turns in the opposite direction or does not turn at all, you have an open diff.

Guys, stay safe!

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:13 am

All you have to do is look at the sticker on your rear axle to determine if it has the Mopar Trac Lock. Considering what I have been through with my KJ, I am amazed at how sturdy those stickers are at staying on and still being readable.

kjfishman · **Posted:** Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:41 am

You all forgot this the new America, someonelse or something else is responsible for what happens to me its never my fault.

Reading thse post has caused me I strain I think the LOST should pay for new glasses for me. (ok just kidding)

kjfishman · **Posted:** Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:49 am

Dutchy wrote:

WGNMANinaRENEGADE it shows you have real character to come back to set things straight, I appreciate that!

I don't mind taking some flack, as long as I keep one fellow KJ driver safe it makes it all worth for me.

For the ones who are not sure if they have a Track Lock (ltd slipp diff), you can check this yourself.

Jack both rear wheels off the ground, turn one wheel by hand, if the other wheel also turns in the same direction you have Track Lock, if the other wheel turns in the opposite direction or does not turn at all, you have an open diff.

Guys, stay safe!

When I was getting my tires replaced the mechanic thought the LSD was a locker and said most LSD's aren't that tight. I know the LSD makes a big difference in handling as my 2002 KJ did't have it and it was standard on the CRD.

WGNMANinaRENEGADE · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:35 am

well, anyhow, i took it out and played a bit. it does indeed handle a bit smoother now when coming out of 4-lo. i mean, it comes out sooner and more 'completely' if that makes any sense. i didn't really think about it, but i guess i was pulling 'p-trak' comin out of sertain gravel patches and such when i should not have been.
the best part is, what i thought was gonna be an expensive brake job can wait a while!!!

i still don't fully buy some of those other stories tho. i mean, i've wheeled on and off road for abbout 20 years or so, a large part of that drivin like a mad man, with some good vehicles and some complete pieces of junk, and still don't have stories like those.

KJ Taz · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:32 pm

Fact: With the ESP on I can't even get my Liberty to do donuts in a parking lot full of snow and ice.........................Its no fun at all..................... :twisted:

_UnLiMiTeD_ · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:31 pm

on my build sheet it doesnt save i have trac lock and even in the snow, usually only one tire spins in the rear so i dont need the friction modifer then i take it

Albert · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:35 pm

_UnLiMiTeD_ wrote:

on my build sheet it doesnt save i have trac lock and even in the snow, usually only one tire spins in the rear so i dont need the friction modifer then i take it

Correct. The factory trac lock has clutches so you need the friction modifier.....but if you have an open diff you do not need it.

priell3 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:07 pm

KJs do not tip over! They just lift a leg to wave!

theBIGbCraig · **Joined:** Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:28 pm **Posts:** 20

... Not relevant to the recent diff talk, but the lobby handles suprisingly well, for what it is. One must remember, first, that is a real-style SUV, high off the ground, short wheelbase, heavy as a truck. Personally, I have spun the liberty, scared the hell out of me because I was going at a very slow speed, but it was very easy to correct. Scenario is as follows: about 2-3 inches of snow, pretty wet/ heavy. Freshly fell from the ground. I was at an intersection, did the normal winter driving go-very-slow-but-don't-lose-forward-momentum-at-a-stop sign. Started to turn right (maybe 2-6mph), barely touched the bass, and around it went. Slow, but very high angle spin, I got about 75 degrees (past the turn) to the road I was turning onto. It, however, remained calm and collected. Had I not already known what to do, it might have been a problem... But really the best word for how it felt is eerie. I don't remember whether I was in 2wd or 4- full time; probably 4.

At the beginning of the thread, someone said something like "oh no, I drive the liberty like a Ferrari and it rolled" (I would quote but don't think iPhone will cooperate). I must admit that I drive back-roads everyday to school, and drive the snot out of it, and its impressed me. One time I think I may have lifted a tire, but (with my tires which are a huge improvement over stock), I have beat my friend's (although he sucks at driving) G35. Not on the straights, but that's not what were talking about. Additionally, if you have an ABS-equipped Jeep, thank God I do, it brakes extremely well.

Its very susceptible to wind, however. And above 90 its scary (or so I hear

), but... That's forgivable. LOL.

Overall, I think you haveti really try to really upset a Liberty, but one must be aware of what it is before that judge it.

_UnLiMiTeD_ · **Posted:** Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:13 am

i was always told the majority of kjs didnt come with traclock from the factory but the other person on here says most of them do.

_UnLiMiTeD_ · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:53 am

Can someone chime in on this? i was always told most jeep libertys dont have TT, but the guy on this thread says they do and most need a friction modifier. Maybe its standard in ausie? or am i wrong here.

talk about giving the liberty a bad name!!

Who is online