Now that I've had my first 4WD vehicle for a while I'm finding I never use 4WD. I always go exploring alone or with a girl, so whenever I get to a road that really requires it I am way too stressed out to go down it. If I get stuck way out there where I usually go it would be one helluva a bad day, night, and one big tow bill. I like being a loner, so this won't be changing anytime soon.

There was actually a forest road today I really wanted to go down to get to a lake, but it was almost pure ice in some parts and had some pretty good ruts in other parts. I tried to talk myself into trying it, but getting stuck in remote Oregon alone in the winter didn't seem like a good risk to take.

Anyway what I want is:
Something good in snow.
Good on forest roads.
Sturdy suspension.
Reasonable clearance.
Manual Transmission for hilly terrain.

I was just looking at the Subaru Outback. Doesn't look as good as the Liberty, but it has AWD, Heavy-duty raised suspension, and I can get manual transmission. Do you think this would be a better vehicle for a dork like me, since I don't use 4WD?

(I'd be fine with keeping the Liberty, except I don't use 4WD, I get low MPG, and I am really irritated with the transmission when driving in hilly terrain. It would rather lug the engine than shift........ even with OD off).

_________________
2007 Jeep Liberty Sport
Not Just Red..............Inferno Red !
Automatic, 4WD
Mopar Skids, Tow Hooks

Well if you like to go alone ,1 rig, that is simply a bad idea how ever if you get a GOOD winch then it is not so bad
second lift the KJ with a GOOD lift ,say all OME HD
armor to the gills
good MT's ,I would say go MTR to help avoid flats (I know that the MTR is really an AT blah blah)
put a locker/LSD combo in that is going to be as close to 100% reliable as you can get ,Detroit is the best for the rear TT front
when you leave the pavement go to 4wd ,go slow with the auto tranny in 1st unless you are running a dirt 2 track then drive
is fine
The last thing is to have an idea of where you are going and let some one know and tell them when you plan to be back

As far as the auto tranny not shifting how YOU want then make it shift ,you want a stick shift so you want to change gears
then just change them
If you start going up a hill ,OD off and you want it to go from 3rd to 2nd and it wont then slip the leaver to second or
PUSH THE GAS HARDER it will down shift

I imagine the subaru would be good for up to about 5 inches of snow on paved roads and that is about it. No 4 lo = no go. However, I haven't taken the time to do much wheelin myself, and at 17 mpg I do fill your pain. I filled up yesterday and bit#$% the whole time. I think the outback is pretty cool, and is very popular here in Colorado, and I imagine their awd system would work well with Oregon rains.

_________________
'06 3.7 sport 6 speed (long live manual tranny's)
tinted windows, cruise, midnight blue
Mopar roof rack
Royal Purple Synchromax in tranny
Royal Purple Maxgear in pumpkins
Full mopar skids, front diff collar
Future mods: Rock rails, B.F. Goodrich all terains. (In my dreams: Frankenlift)

First off, it sounds like you used good sence by not chancing to go down to the lake with a stock Liberty in those conditions.... Hopefully, you're not thinking that; if I had the Subaru I could have made it down to the lake and back.

When wheeling alone, one has to be prepared with plenty of forethought. Knowledge of self recovery, mechanical abilities, some basic spare parts, tools, survial gear, ect. for all those "what if's" that could happen. If you're not up on these things, then you are at a greater risk of being stranded especially in winter weather, and you could easily face death.
Try to refrain from exploring in the Winter by yourself

Considering you do like to go exploring by yourself in remote areas, perhaps a Wrangler Rubicon that comes with a 6 speed manual, selectable front and rear lockers, 32" tires and greater groud cleareance, might be a better option. Then just add a winch to the front, and buy a snatch block in order to get yourself out of most stuck situations that might occur.

_________________
Slightly modified Lt. Khaki 3.7 2004 LTD 4X4. Purchased new 8/6/03.
What I don't have....A Mag light mounted to my seat.
Original Old L.O.S.T. #000354

Nick's Pics & Mods click here: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/531173
http://www.survivaltopics.com/forums/

Sounds like the Pacific Northwest people need to start getting together, so you can do some exploring with other KJ's. I'm relocating up to Washington State sometime next month. Maybe we can get together with some other people for some rides around the washington/Oregon border.

_________________
- Mike
'12 JK

Jeep Tech Files

Nothing will change your fear of doing something until you experience it. Ride with a few people just to learn how well the KJ works off-road and to get rid of your fears, then go be the loner and try things. Have recovery equipment at all times though.

You have to learn/experience the limits of your KJ and then you can go have fun.

_________________
===
New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

I fully agree with this. This is my first 4x4. Two years ago when my KJ was new to me, I had all the same fears (being stranded in Wyoming isn't a very appealing prospect, anytime). Now, after two years of wheeling with other people, I have a pretty good idea what my KJ can do and whether I can take that road by myself or if I should skip it and come back with friends.

_________________
Ron


"There are few problems in life the liberal application of duct tape can't solve."

wow, and people make fun of me for owning a Patriot... and you are considering a dare I say it? Yup, a station wagon. Personally I couldn't do it man. But if thats your thing go for it. But first let me tempt you to save some money. Go test drive a Patriot.

_________________
--Jeep Jim
More LOST than most... I own and lifted a Patriot!
"Patriot Revolution" - 2007 Silver Patriot Sport 4x4.
Mods: K&N AirCharger, RRO 2.125" Lift, Fuzion XTI 245/65R17's,
a Scan Gauge II, Garmin GPSMap 60CSX
CarDomain JeepMK Community

Wait wait ... you have a Liberty and you want to trade down to a Subaru Outback? That will possibly get you to fewer places than you can go currently.

I second the opinion that you go on a ride with someone to get to know your KJ (or is it KK?) better. If you want to be alone, you can still do that provided you pack correspondingly. Search around for threads on what survival gears to bring along.

And if you are really paranoid, get a personal locator beacon ...

Of course, don't leave without telling people your itinerary ...

_________________
DIRTY KJ :: flickr photostream
"Primitive life is very common and intelligent life is fairly rare ... some would say it has yet to occur on Earth" --- Stephen Hawking

Hey Johnnycash, if I remember right, didn't you start out with the manual tranny, and then trade in for the auto because your manual did not quite work right? If so, that was too bad, my manual works wonderful and I really like it. But can't you just put the auto gear into 1 or 2 and leave it? Wouldn't this keep you from lugging and gear shifting? I do know that a lot of automatic owners swear by it for 4 wheelin.
Great ideas listed so far i.e. get with a group of LOST members to learn and safety in numbers. TJ rubicon-if you can afford one, it'll climb a tree for ya!

_________________
'06 3.7 sport 6 speed (long live manual tranny's)
tinted windows, cruise, midnight blue
Mopar roof rack
Royal Purple Synchromax in tranny
Royal Purple Maxgear in pumpkins
Full mopar skids, front diff collar
Future mods: Rock rails, B.F. Goodrich all terains. (In my dreams: Frankenlift)

Agreed, I do most of my wheelin alone without fear(knock on wood), simply because I have been around awhile and have confidence in my abilities.

_________________
http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic

I can't imagine going from a liberty 4X4 to to Outback even
if your libby is a gasser in lieu of a diesel.
Sounds like you are backing up. Keep the libby and use it.
On the other hand, I think you are wise not too venture too
far astray from others in any vehicle, specialy in the winter.
Stay with this group, meet others in your area and all go trail
riding.
What u say big guy, sound like the ticket?

Steve

_________________
06 Silver Liberty
EHM/SEGR
Fumoto Oil Drain
No rock climbing
No mudding
Hangs behind my
motorhome on tow bars. Semi-retired and still learning.

FUNNY THING ....I was reading this then ran to Tractor Supply for bolts for a little project, came out and a couple were loading bird seed into their Outback, as I was getting in the guy says to me Nice Jeep !! I said Thanks and he goes on saying "Thats what I wanted was a Liberty but my wife talked me into this Outback" , said it was OK for "on road" trips but he hates it but now they are stuck with it. He had a Liberty when they met and sold it to buy a house.
But get to know the Liberty more and increase your wheeling skills like others have said

_________________
MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

All right then. I guess I'll just keep it. After looking at some other stuff I have to say the Liberty is quite a bargain for a 4WD, 6-cylinder vehicle under $20K.

I had the manual transmission to start with.....which is what I really wanted, but it seemed pretty screwed up to me, and the dealer said it was normal. After the esp caused it to stall out on me just slowly coming out of my parking lot one day I realized I didn't really want to die if it decided to do the same thing in front of a semi truck.

I got an employee discount, so I gave it back and got an automatic and didn't lose a huge amount on the trade in. The auto has worked just fine......no more stalling....or jerkiness, but I miss shifting and being in control.

And the transmission is so weird I wonder how long it will last. It gets stuck or something I can't explain in hilly terrain. When you go down a hill and the get back on the pedal to go up another hill it doesn't want to downshift. Going up a hill in reverse it shakes. How long do you think this transmission will last?

If they are known to go bad quickly maybe I will just keep until the warranty is up.

_________________
2007 Jeep Liberty Sport
Not Just Red..............Inferno Red !
Automatic, 4WD
Mopar Skids, Tow Hooks

Its a Jeep thing just run it and enjoy owning a great vehicle....

_________________
MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

For the record my Subaru WRX was a MUCH better engineered vehicle than my liberty

I thought the Subaru Outback was the state car of Oregon.

An Outback, you'd scrap the pan a lot in Calif. Keeping the KJ is a good idea, it will get you far in and then back more reliably. I came to the LOST Forum because my stock KJ couldn't get me far enough into the unexplored. Now it can in spades. As they say about Mt Everest, when you reach the summit, you've only done half the job. KJ gets it done.

Solo travel, please be prepared to jack the vehicle, to air down the tires, to pump up the tires; and carry a Pendleton blanket and a matchsafe. Maybe an emergency PLB device would make you feel safer.

Re shifting, after half a million miles of manual transmission, I thought I'd hate my KJ being auto. Don't tell anyone, but I downshift the auto all the time and don't find 3500 or 4000 rpm too winey.

_________________
Liberating. 2006 KJ Sport, Pearl blue, lic. plate CACHE EH. Mods: Frankenlift, Boulderbars, Superskid, Rockstar bumper, PS rock ring, ARB rear locker, BS Dueler Revo LT245 10-ply.

If you start off-roading your Libby to any extent you will be glad you got the automatic. I bought a manual Libby (because it was a manual) and off-road it can become quite tedious, especially in 4-lo.

_________________
Have fun out there.

2003 Cactus Green Renegade w/ NP231 & NV3550
Al's 4th Gen UCAs
Custom 3.5" Lift
Rear DTT
Spidertraxed 245/75/16 Maxxis Bighorns

Well, that was quite a post.

Where do I start?

First off if you wheel alone, or with a girl, I can only assume that you are out there to try to impress her and...

Well how impressive will it be if you roll your outback or get stuck and have no way of fixing the situation.

As far as the tranny. Mannual or auto will last only as long as you DO NOT TRASH IT. BUT you will do much better with an auto. Had an old frioend of mine explain it this way..."Smoother transition of power with an auto in situations where you don't need to be powering down the engine and tranny to keep moving." Think about it. Going upo a slick hill and u take your foot off the gas to clutch and shift to another gear. All that momentum lost and guess what, your stuck.

Save the extra money you would spend on an Outback, fix up the KJ mechanicaly to work better for you in the wilderness, join a wheeling club, meet girls that way.

GOOD LUCK!

_________________
'07 Ltd 3.7L, Black, OME HD's, OME shocks, Mopar Skids, AEV Bridgers w/ TPMS, Kumho KL78's, ARB Bumper, KC 130 Watters, Warn M8000 Winch, Rock Lizard Gecko Roof Basket KC 150 watters, Cobra 75WSX, 3 ft FireFly, RL Super Step Skinks

Thank God...saved another one.

_________________