auto vs manual transmission

newjeep123 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:58 pm

so my liberty is getting along in years and I'm thinking about what to get next. One big question is a manual or automatic transmission. Anyone have some idea of which is stronger? Which will take more abuse, etc.

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:19 pm

Can't answer your question on strength but a lot of people find that an automatic is a lot easier to use on a trail. If your 1/2 way up an obstacle and stop you don't have to worry about using the brake, gas and clutch all at once. Something to think about.

Terry

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:56 pm

as a general rule automatics are more tolerant - the planetary gear system is stronger than gears on side by side shafts.

but that's not the problem, what normally kills a manual transmission is the driver. On the synchronizers - people tend to kill the 2nd gear syncro due to 'fast' improper shifts and they wear out clutches and throwout bearings.

The only time you'll truely see a gear fail is if you're talking drag racing or big blocks.

jpsmith · **Joined:** Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:52 pm **Posts:** 40

You'll get better gas mileage with the manual, and the 42RLE auto has terrible shift points that make it act like a child throwing a tantrum when climbing hills. This problem is very well discussed on this board and others with respect to the KJ and I've seen some suggest the KK suffers from it too, while others have said is has been cured in the KK. So if you're comfortable driving the manual, I'd say go that route. Since my wife doesn't want to drive a stick and I'd rather not in the city, I won't buy a KK until the 42RLE has been replaced.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:15 pm

Both our Jeeps have autos
the TJ has a 3 speed TF999 I wheel this Jeep VERY hard under all conditions and after ~50K it is doing fine
I have never had any shift issues and such ,put it in first and it holds first just like any manual tranny
climbing steep muddy hills put it in 2nd get rolling let it shift and get down ,it will hold 2nd until I stop

The KJ has either a 45RFE or a 42RLE I am still not sure which and at this point it does not matter
but it looks like a 42RLE
I have NONE of the tranny issues that others complain about I can burn 245/75 MTR's in Reverse
it will hold first just like the TJ if I put it in first I have NEVER had the tranny temp light come on even when wheeling in 90*+ heat with the AC on
it shifts just fine even on the back roads around the smoky mountains ,2wd slipping on the gravel because it was to steep

To me keep what you have and enjoy it rather than think about reasons to change it
heck I want 4 to 1 gears in the KJ but they dont make them for the 242 T-case so that will probably never happen
it will happen to the TJ because I dont need to swap the entire T-case and modify it
just drop in the Terra low kit
Now they do make 4.10 gears for the KJ so I know I can do that to it and fully plan to but only so I can flat tow the TJ with it even with 245/75 tires

InCommando · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:39 pm

The manual does require more skill to use off-road, and actually on-road as well, as pointed out above.

What I like about it besides being able to beat the EPA esitmates easily by changing driving styles is that you can actually choose which gear you want for the conditions. If the conditions would make 4-lo in 4th gear the best choice, I can do that from a stand still. Unless an auto has a true manual option, it does not have that flexability. An auto can hold a gear , but I'll bet that if it is put it in 2nd, it starts out in 1st and goes to 2nd.

The crawl ratio for the 6-spd is very good. I'll bet it is 20 points better than the auto, but I have not checked.

Unless it has changed, the 6-spd gets you the upgraded 241 x-fer in place of the 231. 4:1 stuff is available for the 241, if for some reason you ever feel the need.

The other advantage is water crossings. Numerous autos have died from being in over the vent tube. You may have to drain & refill a manny, but that is not exactly difficult or expensive.

For me, I just feel more in control with a stick. And just think how you could use the $1,000 you spent on the auto.

It is totally personal preference,and each has its advantages. But I would much rather spend $300 on replacing a clutch in my driveway than a thou or 2 having an auto rebuilt.

dloc_jeep_KJ · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:33 pm

the KJ is the first auto i have ever owned. for offroading i wouldnt have it any other way. now in my Porsche it had to be a manual. i didnt think i would ever like an auto till the KJ and it took a little getting use to but on the trail i could see where a manual would give you some trouble. so if you plan to wheel alot then i would go with the auto.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:17 pm

jason thompson wrote:

The KJ has either a 45RFE or a 42RLE I am still not sure which and at this point it does not matter
but it looks like a 42RLE
I have NONE of the tranny issues that others complain about I can burn 245/75 MTR's in Reverse
it will hold first just like the TJ if I put it in first I have NEVER had the tranny temp light come on even when wheeling in 90*+ heat with the AC on
it shifts just fine even on the back roads around the smoky mountains ,2wd slipping on the gravel because it was to steep

You 100% sure it has the 42rle? Mine wont do jack in R.

Just climb under it and count the bolts. 13 bolts=42rle.

Guest · **Posted:** Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:22 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

jason thompson wrote:

The KJ has either a 45RFE or a 42RLE I am still not sure which and at this point it does not matter
but it looks like a 42RLE
I have NONE of the tranny issues that others complain about I can burn 245/75 MTR's in Reverse
it will hold first just like the TJ if I put it in first I have NEVER had the tranny temp light come on even when wheeling in 90*+ heat with the AC on
it shifts just fine even on the back roads around the smoky mountains ,2wd slipping on the gravel because it was to steep

You 100% sure it has the 42rle? Mine wont do jack in R.

read the bold print:)

moose · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:39 am

I've wheeled both off road, and I find the auto is easier but I enjoy the skill test of the stick (plus as a DD, I got to drive it like a firebird :twisted:

). Bottom line is up to you and how much you really want to deal with a stick off road (and adding the hand accelerator to the stick shift :shock:

if you're extreamly serious). My next Jeep will have a 6spd if I can help it...

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:12 am

i'm a strong believer in manuals.. i've only had stick shifts but i've driven automatics both on and offroad. Driving a stick offroad is not only a better feeling.. it's also a bit more challenging. You feel like your actually driving and operating the jeep instead of just riding in it. plus it will stay in whichever gear you want it to be in which is a plus. The transfer case is also different in a maunal i believe.. when i engage 4 lo my idle raises 500 rpm, it allows me to start it without the clutch in, it reduces the gears, it locks the front and rear driveshafts 50/50, turns off traction control.. and a few other things. I believe the manual has a slower crawl ratio as well? on road and off road.. wouldnt trade mine for the world

oh yeah.. and it's priceless when someone new rides or looks in your liberty and says in shock "wow i didnt know these came with a stick!"... or a spotter says "Put it in drive (then looks inside).. errr... i mean... second"

jason thompson · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:20 am

2006 KJ wrote:

i'm a strong believer in manuals.. i've only had stick shifts but i've driven automatics both on and offroad. Driving a stick offroad is not only a better feeling.. it's also a bit more challenging. You feel like your actually driving and operating the jeep instead of just riding in it. plus it will stay in whichever gear you want it to be in which is a plus. The transfer case is also different in a maunal i believe.. when i engage 4 lo my idle raises 500 rpm, it allows me to start it without the clutch in, it reduces the gears, it locks the front and rear driveshafts 50/50, turns off traction control.. and a few other things. I believe the manual has a slower crawl ratio as well? on road and off road.. wouldnt trade mine for the world

oh yeah.. and it's priceless when someone new rides or looks in your liberty and says in shock "wow i didnt know these came with a stick!"... or a spotter says "Put it in drive (then looks inside).. errr... i mean... second"

transfer case is a the same in an auto or a stick does the same thing
I dont know why people think that autos dont hold gear mine do
now yeah if you put an auto in drive they will go through all the gears and cost with very little engine breaking
but if you put them in first they will hold just fine even in second they will hold second but jump from first to second

Rush345 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:23 pm

I perfer automatic, besides the mid way up a hill advantage. I know that I'm hard on clutches, additionally if your driving a sports car or such as a roadster a standard stick is half the fun. But thats just my 2 cents worth

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:44 pm

Most auto tranny's are stronger then manuals(in the same vehicle),the 42RLE is the exception.And if you need a stronger tranny most auto's can be built very strong,a manual you will need to put in a bigger,heavier manual tranny,which can cost big $$$.You also get less "shock loads" placed on the drivetrain with a auto letting the drivetrain,diffs,t-case,driveshafts,and u-joints,live longer.

I have to many things going on in the drivers seat when doing more difficult trails,I don't need that 3rd pedal to worry about.

Now in a sports car,yes a manual tranny is more fun,offroad the auto is king.

Guest · **Posted:** Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:39 pm

In a 4x4, like my Isuzu Trooper, with something like an 84:1 crawl ratio, i'd prefer a manual. in something like the KJ, I'd prefer a GOOD auto, like the 45RFE. If my KJ were to be totalled tomorrow, i'd go after an '05 Renegade with a stick, or a later model Isuzu Trooper, and I'd be happy to find either in auto or manual form.

I don't care either way, but I want a GOOD auto if the auto is the only choice.

Alak · **Posted:** Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:12 pm

I have a buddy who I used to wheel with in my KJ who drove a YJ. EVERY TIME, and this is fact. EVERY TIME he went out, something related to the clutch assembly malfunctioned. Everything was new (new transmission). First was the pressure plate. Then was the clutch springs in the clutch came out. Then the clutch fork bent, then the hydraulics failed. Throwoutbearing went. These are all seperate times out with new parts. It spends more time in the shop than on the trail.

It costs him an unbelivable fortune.

I can easily say that in my experience automatics are far more reliable. I also find it great when I start climbing a HUGE hill in 2nd low and I have to be in first gear at the top, but 2nd for the speed to get started.

adamkrz · **Posted:** Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:37 pm

Maybe it's just me, But every auto trans. vehicle I have owned - I have had major problems, None with with any of my manual vehicles, I tow and offroad a little with My KJ and so far so good with my 5 speed.

I've also noticed many people who have problems with their manual trannys don't operate them well, My buddy goes thru a clutch about every 30k and thinks it's normal..

InCommando · **Posted:** Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:36 pm

Alak wrote:

I have a buddy who I used to wheel with in my KJ who drove a YJ. EVERY TIME, and this is fact. EVERY TIME he went out, something related to the clutch assembly malfunctioned. Everything was new (new transmission). First was the pressure plate. Then was the clutch springs in the clutch came out. Then the clutch fork bent, then the hydraulics failed. Throwoutbearing went. These are all seperate times out with new parts. It spends more time in the shop than on the trail.

It costs him an unbelivable fortune.

I can easily say that in my experience automatics are far more reliable. I also find it great when I start climbing a HUGE hill in 2nd low and I have to be in first gear at the top, but 2nd for the speed to get started.

The problematic clutch systems ( and in some cases entire trannies) that jeep used in YJ's are pretty common knowledge. Using those as a yardstick will not really give you a decent comparison.

The 6-spd is (so far) holding up fine in the KJ while the T18A in my Cherokee is pretty much bomb-proof. But you can't argue that an auto doesn't really smooth out power delivery to lessen sometimes deadly shock loads that a stick creates

It really does go back to what you want. I view auto's as one more step to "press button to climb hill" while conceding that they are easier ( in some situations much easier) to use than a stick. But maybe the added challenge of the stick is what you are looking for, and would add to your experiences. Again, that is up to you. You shouldn't prefer blue-eyed brunettes just because I do, either. :lol:

(although it would show you were pretty classy)

JohnnyCash · **Posted:** Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:26 pm

I've always driven a manual and now have an auto.

Just when I think I like the auto I take a drive on some curvy mountain roads, and the way the Liberty tranny gets confused between 2nd and 3rd gears always makes me say, "What a piece of sh$# !!!!"

I still don't know what on earth it's doing. It's like it gets stuck between 2nd and 3rd. Sometimes the engine lugs........sometimes it makes this horrible buzzing noise unless you take you're foot off and then press the accelerator back down.

I've never head a good explanation of what's happening when it does the above, but it doesn't sound too healthy.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:35 am

Hmm, difficult question....I think it all depends on what you are used too. As overhere we all drive sticks, we just don't know any better.

I did ofroad an auto KJ and as TJKJ says it's much easier not having to worry about clutching or not. Going up a steep hill you just hit the gas...if mine stalls on a steep hill because I'm in the wrong gear I have a serious problem getting it started going uphill again...unless you use 4Lo...then it drives itself.

The CRD has a system that auto controls the throttle, so I can just take my foot of the clutch and then it thinks for itself, driving me up and down most anything. Without stalling.

auto vs manual transmission

Who is online