Void Warranty?

2006Renegade · **Joined:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:01 pm **Posts:** 22

does anyone know if a suspension lift (ome, frankinlift) would void the manufactures drivetrain warranty?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 9:20 am

2006Renegade wrote:

does anyone know if a suspension lift (ome, frankinlift) would void the manufactures drivetrain warranty?

They can if they want to,some dealers will others don't really care.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 9:56 am

If they try to deny the whole drivetrain warranty then call an attorney that knows about the Magnusson-Moss act. The only parts they don't have to honor the warranty on are any pieces that are replaced w/ non-factory parts. The rest of the drivetrain is unaffected by a lift so they have to honor the waranty for those parts. Any dealer that says otherwise is trying to snow you and it is illegal for them to do so.
I know some dealers will have a guidline before they will start to give you grief. For example, Mine said that they don't recommend tire sizes bigger than two sizes above largest factory size or lifts above 3". However, it is up to them to Prove that any lift or tire size increase caused a failure of say the engine or transmission in order to deny warranty coverage. Chances are if you challenge them on the issue they will not fight it because it is going to be tough for them to prove and costly to do so.
In talking to my local dealers service manager he agreed w/ me on this topic and seemed to know enough about the Magnusson-Moss laws to not push the issue. He also owned a lifted, wheeled Rubicon so maybe that is why he knew.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 11:00 am

Local dealer wanted to sell lifted JK's so he had his "people" research on Chryslers stand on suspension lifts
Chrysler states in the fine print that suspension lift's over 2" will void all components affected buy the change
that means that if they want they can void all but your engine tranny and T-case ,front and rear diff.'s are questionable
They also state that any tire larger than OE Chrysler equipment may void related components this will be every thing
the catch to this is that the 32's that come on the JK is an OE tire size and they do not state any model
This will also be up to the dealer as far as tire size and seeing as how 32 to 33 is only 1" they would have a very hard time proving it

Now if you go with OME springs they are rated to give only 1.75" which is less than 2" that they stated
and go with 245/75R16's which is an OE tire size and you would be even better protected to go with an MTR
it is an OE chrysler tire
knowing the fine print for your self will help but like I said the dealer can not argue with chrysler

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 11:57 am

jason thompson wrote:

Local dealer wanted to sell lifted JK's so he had his "people" research on Chryslers stand on suspension lifts
Chrysler states in the fine print that suspension lift's over 2" will void all components affected buy the change
that means that if they want they can void all but your engine tranny and T-case ,front and rear diff.'s are questionable
They also state that any tire larger than OE Chrysler equipment may void related components this will be every thing
the catch to this is that the 32's that come on the JK is an OE tire size and they do not state any model
This will also be up to the dealer as far as tire size and seeing as how 32 to 33 is only 1" they would have a very hard time proving it

Now if you go with OME springs they are rated to give only 1.75" which is less than 2" that they stated
and go with 245/75R16's which is an OE tire size and you would be even better protected to go with an MTR
it is an OE chrysler tire
knowing the fine print for your self will help but like I said the dealer can not argue with chrysler

Yep adding a lift will place more stress on the suspension components,steering,CV shafts,F/R diffs,t-case,and tranny so they can void all of that from adding a lift and bigger wheels/tires.The magnusson-moss act won't save you from reality,it's known fact that adding a lift and bigger tires will effect those area's I stated.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 12:08 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

jason thompson wrote:

Local dealer wanted to sell lifted JK's so he had his "people" research on Chryslers stand on suspension lifts
Chrysler states in the fine print that suspension lift's over 2" will void all components affected buy the change
that means that if they want they can void all but your engine tranny and T-case ,front and rear diff.'s are questionable
They also state that any tire larger than OE Chrysler equipment may void related components this will be every thing
the catch to this is that the 32's that come on the JK is an OE tire size and they do not state any model
This will also be up to the dealer as far as tire size and seeing as how 32 to 33 is only 1" they would have a very hard time proving it

Now if you go with OME springs they are rated to give only 1.75" which is less than 2" that they stated
and go with 245/75R16's which is an OE tire size and you would be even better protected to go with an MTR
it is an OE chrysler tire
knowing the fine print for your self will help but like I said the dealer can not argue with chrysler

Yep adding a lift will place more stress on the suspension components,steering,CV shafts,F/R diffs,t-case,and tranny so they can void all of that from adding a lift and bigger wheels/tires.The magnusson-moss act won't save you from reality,it's known fact that adding a lift and bigger tires will effect those area's I stated.

Yet is still up to them to Prove those mods Caused any failures of other components. An example is my dealer not giving me any grief on my front diff failure. The service writer asked about my lift and tires size but backed off when i mentioned that there are known failures of front diffs on stock vehicles and I asked about the Magnusson-Moss act. Once the service mgr knew the situation he stated "well, it is a Jeep and it is supposed to go off road without breaking so we will cover it no problem"

It really depends on Your dealer and how They feel if they are going to give you grief but don't give in if you feel they are wrong since you are covered by certain laws and it is up to them to prove your mods caused a failure. Most people just give in and don't fight what the service writer tells them. Best to get in writing what your dealers policy is on lifts and tires.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 12:18 pm

JJsKJ wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

jason thompson wrote:

Local dealer wanted to sell lifted JK's so he had his "people" research on Chryslers stand on suspension lifts
Chrysler states in the fine print that suspension lift's over 2" will void all components affected buy the change
that means that if they want they can void all but your engine tranny and T-case ,front and rear diff.'s are questionable
They also state that any tire larger than OE Chrysler equipment may void related components this will be every thing
the catch to this is that the 32's that come on the JK is an OE tire size and they do not state any model
This will also be up to the dealer as far as tire size and seeing as how 32 to 33 is only 1" they would have a very hard time proving it

Now if you go with OME springs they are rated to give only 1.75" which is less than 2" that they stated
and go with 245/75R16's which is an OE tire size and you would be even better protected to go with an MTR
it is an OE chrysler tire
knowing the fine print for your self will help but like I said the dealer can not argue with chrysler

Yep adding a lift will place more stress on the suspension components,steering,CV shafts,F/R diffs,t-case,and tranny so they can void all of that from adding a lift and bigger wheels/tires.The magnusson-moss act won't save you from reality,it's known fact that adding a lift and bigger tires will effect those area's I stated.

Yet is still up to them to Prove those mods Caused any failures of other components. An example is my dealer not giving me any grief on my front diff failure. The service writer asked about my lift and tires size but backed off when i mentioned that there are known failures of front diffs on stock vehicles and I asked about the Magnusson-Moss act. Once the service mgr knew the situation he stated "well, it is a Jeep and it is supposed to go off road without breaking so we will cover it no problem"

It really depends on Your dealer and how They feel if they are going to give you grief but don't give in if you feel they are wrong since you are covered by certain laws and it is up to them to prove your mods caused a failure. Most people just give in and don't fight what the service writer tells them. Best to get in writing what your dealers policy is on lifts and tires.

You got very lucky,from working at a dealer when Chrysler,GM,or Ford set limits for what is a warrenty voiding mod it's pretty tough to bypass it since most is printed in the warrenty manual that comes with the vehicle.I've seen some stuff warrentied that shouldn't,the service writer "made up" a story about how it failed for "friends" of the owners but when the Factory rep is there nothing gets snuck by that shouldn't be warrentied.

How is the front D30A breaking a common/known thing? A couple out of over a million+ vehicles is not very common,even if you have a 1000-2000 it's still not very common.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 12:31 pm

Didn't say it was common, I said it was known to happen on stock vehicles. My dealer knew at the time that mine broke of two failures on stock vehicles. One was driving on a partially snow covered road and broke a diff and the other was wheeling his on a trail at the time it broke. Another example was the upper control arm failure I had at 9,000 miles. They knew I was lifted but never mentioned it because they "had just replaced an upper arm on an earlier model". They could have easily stated it failed due to the lift so it does depend on your dealer.
I'm not arguing that a dealer can claim anything they want or deny a warranty just trying to say to fight if they do. My experience has been that they love to just get you to bend over and take it knowing that most people won't fight back. Of course everyone always raises hell after the fact but never fought the issue when it occured. Challenge them and your chances are greater that they won't stick to what they first tell you.

Just trying to let those that want to mod know that they can challenge and win in some cases so they are not afraid to mod. Ask your dealer about their policy on the issue and see what they say and get it in writing if possible. Oh and good luck!!

InCommando · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 12:55 pm

So, information is your friend. Even if they deny it, it seems your best chance is to go in with as much info, like that posted above, to give yourself the best chance of gettign things taking care of.

So.....Thanks for the info!

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 2:41 pm

forget about the warrenty lol I lost mine before I even bought the thing, my test drive they let me take it over night so I took it on some trails

VTNomad · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 3:30 pm

I used to work in a high end mountain bike shop. Most of the people that came in with warranty issues were from abuse. We were willing to work with you most of the time. We sold more Trek bikes than anyone else in the state, so they company let us use our judgement to determine warranty issues.

But if you came in there a lied to use about what happen, you didn't get any help whatsoever from us. We referred to them as JRA's.

Shop: "So, how exactly did you frame break, and wheels fold in half (taco'ed)?"

Customer: " Just riding along (JRA).'

We saw a lot of bike left on top of vehicles and driven into garages/fast food drive thrus, etc. We also saw a lot of vehicles left on the back of cars that were rear ended, or had the tires too close to the exhaust.

Get to be buddies with your mechanic. I always make sure to introduce my self to the shop manager and let him know that his shop is the only place that does anything to any of my vehicles.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:21 pm

VTNomad wrote:

I used to work in a high end mountain bike shop. Most of the people that came in with warranty issues were from abuse. We were willing to work with you most of the time. We sold more Trek bikes than anyone else in the state, so they company let us use our judgement to determine warranty issues.

But if you came in there a lied to use about what happen, you didn't get any help whatsoever from us. We referred to them as JRA's.

Shop: "So, how exactly did you frame break, and wheels fold in half (taco'ed)?"

Customer: " Just riding along (JRA).'

We saw a lot of bike left on top of vehicles and driven into garages/fast food drive thrus, etc. We also saw a lot of vehicles left on the back of cars that were rear ended, or had the tires too close to the exhaust.

Get to be buddies with your mechanic. I always make sure to introduce my self to the shop manager and let him know that his shop is the only place that does anything to any of my vehicles.

You brought up a good point,Jeep should not fix anything on there dime if you abused your KJ and a part failed,not there fault but yours.They will fix alot of stuff they shouldn't but there is a point when they have to say no we are not going to cover that repair bill/parts.If you broke something screwing around it's your fault,and I would consider offroading "abuse",yes they advertize them as offroad vehicles but you know,like me,that 95% never see anything worse then a gravel road.On another board I'm on Chrysler denied a warrenty claim on a guy's TJ for a rear bent axle tubes,not in a accident or anything but due to having larger then stock tires got him denied.I've been told from about 4 dealers,lift friendly to,that it was not my lift,lockers,or even my JET chip that would kill my powertrain warrenty but the oversized tires sure would,they said always bring your Jeep in on a set of stock wheels/tires and there would be no problems.

InCommando · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:48 pm

LOL

JRA

Totally off topic, but back in the day we used to say that the most dangerous thing you can ever do was mind your own business

Cop: So what were you doing when you got shot?

Doof: There I was, just minding my own business.......

:roll:

<-- Cop, having heard this for the 4,000th time

LibertyFever · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 5:44 pm

I was told by my dealership that they didn't care about lifts but that they were concerned about tire size. The tires size would have to be in the ECM.

When I bought my Liberty two years ago I was told that I had an extended warranty but they wouldn't give me written proof. The same is true about possible warranty issues. They won't give me written explanation as to what would void the warranty.

They have been good to me replacing items I didn't expect to be covered however if I ever go to another dealership they might not be so kind.

Inc · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 6:53 pm

I had a exhausting discussion about this issue with my jeep dealer and he assured me they can only void warranty on the the parts that have been replaced by aftermarket products. So it is a non issue for me and my dealership where I got my jeep from.

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2008 10:08 pm

all goes back to the dealer and how they write things up. I worked for a Ford dealership back in the late 70s and we would warranty stuff if it was a good customer or may someday be a good customer, boss had a lot of friends that we had to eat some of the stuff on due to stupidity, but most went through one way or the other, and what we didn't have to send back to Ford went home with me!

ARBSeth · **Posted:** Mon May 12, 2008 2:52 am

The straight scoop:
You blow a ball joint and you're lifted, they can and probably will deny your claim. That's why for the life of me I couldn't understand why the LBJ recall went so smoothly for all of us lifted guys... but hey, the stockers did it, too... so Jeep just said "Fix em" so they didn't get sued. Anyway...

You warp a rotor because your tires are bigger than Jeep designed for the truck, you're scrizzwed.

Tranny, transfer case... all can be denied by a lift/tire issue. But they HAVE to prove why the lift caused it. MMA protects AM MFR's like us, but it also puts us & you the consumer on the hook, too. Bottom line is, if you read the warranty notice close enough, they can deny just about anything. But if you're smart and go to the right store, you can get just about anything warrantied, too.

I just spent the last week with TMS (Toyota Motor Sales) guys haivng meetings with dealers that modify FJ's, Tacos and Tundra's with our stuff and filling them in on the MMA and how Toyota deals with it. PM me if you have any questions..I'm all learned up on the MMA these days!

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