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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:41 am 
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235/75/16s would fall between those and is another good choice

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:17 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
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Wider than 225 would have increased drag but increased lateral stability, a good idea for lifted vehicles.
The narrower 215 are great for snow and fuel mileage.
That is a big misconception,wider tires have been proven to be better in all situations.Yes they cause more drag and decrease mpg's but the benifits out weigh 1/2 mpg loss."Pizza cutter" tires give less traction on all surfaces and allow the vehicle to "sink" through the surface(mud,snow,and such) which is bad since you are now trying to drag your axles and such through the stuff and wider tires will allow you to "float" on surfaces maintaining ground clearance allowing to go more places and have more traction.Wider tires are also more stable on road and widen the stance for better handling and preventing rollovers and such which "pizza cutters" increase.

If you look a the big rigs they have been running "pizza cutter" tires for years,but now most are switching to "super single's" which increase load capicity and stability from a wider tire that the "pizza cutters" do not give them.


Yeah wht is up wiht that? Here in Germany they have been running singles for years. Now thye have gotten to 385 wide tires wiht a special rain lip.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:12 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
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That is a big misconception,wider tires have been proven to be better in all situations.Yes they cause more drag and decrease mpg's but the benifits out weigh 1/2 mpg loss."Pizza cutter" tires give less traction on all surfaces and allow the vehicle to "sink" through the surface(mud,snow,and such) which is bad since you are now trying to drag your axles and such through the stuff and wider tires will allow you to "float" on surfaces maintaining ground clearance allowing to go more places and have more traction.Wider tires are also more stable on road and widen the stance for better handling and preventing rollovers and such which "pizza cutters" increase.

If you look a the big rigs they have been running "pizza cutter" tires for years,but now most are switching to "super single's" which increase load capicity and stability from a wider tire that the "pizza cutters" do not give them.


I respectfully disagree with this. Wider tires for flotation are good for sand, and may be of benefit on a light weight vehicle, but a 4,300 lb. CRD is not going to "float" on top of mud or snow, even with a 10 or 11 inch wide tire. In those conditions, one wants a narrow tire that will dig enough to get some traction in mud or snow, not try to "sled" across the top of it. Wide tires may sell a lot of aftermarket wheels to people who want to look "cool" with their wide tires, but for off roading, I'll take a narrower, taller tire any day. I just wish the tire manufacturers had more narrow models available.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:31 pm 
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For normal offroad/snow/mud driving BOTH tires put the same amount of tread on the ground at the same pressures. One patch will be wide and short...one will be skinny and long...just physics!

The difference will be which surface they contact and the traction it has...

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Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:39 pm 
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DarbyWalters wrote:
For normal offroad/snow/mud driving BOTH tires put the same amount of tread on the ground at the same pressures. One patch will be wide and short...one will be skinny and long...just physics!

The difference will be which surface they contact and the traction it has...
Not true at all,a thinner tire will have less contact patch then a wider tire of the same height by alot.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:46 pm 
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If you look a the big rigs they have been running "pizza cutter" tires for years,but now most are switching to "super single's" which increase load capicity and stability from a wider tire that the "pizza cutters" do not give them.


The reason for the switch is lighter weight and most importantly one less tire to pay Federal Excise Tax on. FET is around $30 a tire for class 8 semi tires. Figure in fleet munbers and it doesn't take long to save a whole lot of money.Also,you have more load capacity with two seperate tires instead of one.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:07 pm 
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onthehunt wrote:
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If you look a the big rigs they have been running "pizza cutter" tires for years,but now most are switching to "super single's" which increase load capicity and stability from a wider tire that the "pizza cutters" do not give them.


The reason for the switch is lighter weight and most importantly one less tire to pay Federal Excise Tax on. FET is around $30 a tire for class 8 semi tires. Figure in fleet munbers and it doesn't take long to save a whole lot of money.Also,you have more load capacity with two seperate tires instead of one.
Not true,go look at a semi truck with duals,they have 2 weights on them,one is for single tire use and the other is when used in a dual set-up.The single use lists more weight it can handle compared to super singles.Super singles are more expensive then 2 regular tires but has more load capicity and more contact patch then 2 regular "duals".


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:31 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
DarbyWalters wrote:
For normal offroad/snow/mud driving BOTH tires put the same amount of tread on the ground at the same pressures. One patch will be wide and short...one will be skinny and long...just physics!

The difference will be which surface they contact and the traction it has...
Not true at all,a thinner tire will have less contact patch then a wider tire of the same height by alot.


You better rethink that...tires of various aspect ratios but with the same inflation pressure and supporting the same weight will have contact patches of different shapes but with the same area...the weight of the vehicle will deform the tire until there is enough area (contact patch) to support the weight on each tire...that requirement does not change with the size tire you use.

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Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:35 am 
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Not true,go look at a semi truck with duals,they have 2 weights on them,one is for single tire use and the other is when used in a dual set-up.The single use lists more weight it can handle compared to super singles.Super singles are more expensive then 2 regular tires but has more load capicity and more contact patch then 2 regular "duals".


Two weights listed yes. The only reason super singles were used was because people couldn't get away with putting duels on the steer axle. Two tires will support more weight than one tire. Two regular tires are more expensive than a super single. The only reason companies are running super singles(besides the steer axle) is because of the FET issue.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:52 am 
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We went with Firestone Desination LE 225/75/16 33lbs, max psi 50, load 2094
It's 6lbs more than the Wrangler ST, but last many miles.
The Long Trail is 34lbs
The Firestone's were about $87 plus shipping and you get a $50 rebate.
Cheap too.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:57 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
onthehunt wrote:
Quote:
If you look a the big rigs they have been running "pizza cutter" tires for years,but now most are switching to "super single's" which increase load capicity and stability from a wider tire that the "pizza cutters" do not give them.


The reason for the switch is lighter weight and most importantly one less tire to pay Federal Excise Tax on. FET is around $30 a tire for class 8 semi tires. Figure in fleet munbers and it doesn't take long to save a whole lot of money.Also,you have more load capacity with two seperate tires instead of one.
Not true,go look at a semi truck with duals,they have 2 weights on them,one is for single tire use and the other is when used in a dual set-up.The single use lists more weight it can handle compared to super singles.Super singles are more expensive then 2 regular tires but has more load capicity and more contact patch then 2 regular "duals".


You both are wrong. 1) try driving a semi with super singles compared to duals. Stability is decreased in the SS rubber. 2) Doesn't matter if SS tires have a higher weight rating. You can only have 32K# on any set of dual axles unless they are spread. Whether you are running duals or SS, you are still limited by state laws on how much axle weight you can have. Only a limited number of fleets are running them, not "most" as you stated. The primary carriers that are doing the switch are those that do not tend to run "heavy" such as FedEx. Keim out of Sabetha, KS has run them for years (probably the first fleet to run them consistently), but not without problems. On a spread axle trailer, SS tires get eat up faster than traditional duals.

SS offer decreased rolling resistance compared to duals, and therefore a little bit in fuel savings which is the primary reason they are being considered by some fleets. But they are not good for all applications. If you are doing over sized loads (I did not say over weight), the stability is less with SS. If you are doing off road hauling (i.e. rock and logs), SS will be a problem. Heavy haul application carriers are not switching to them at all.

For a traditional over the road application, they show promise. They are more cost effective, but require increased attention to avoid premature wear, and since most fleets drop and hook trailers around the country, tire maintenance tends to get overlooked. We have tried them on a few applications and have not had a good enough experience to justify switching totally. If they are so good, then why are they not offered as an option on a Dodge, Ford, or GM dually pickup rear axle? I have gotten over 300K miles (with a few 400K miles) on semi duals, but have never gotten beyond 250K on a similar equiped semi with SS rubber. They have to flex more than traditional 22.5 LP rubber and therefore generate more heat which is a tire killer.

I wouldn't make comparisons to what should be on a Liberty with what should be run on a semi. Heck, if the truth be known, ag tractors use a less wide tire and mount them in duals or triples. They do this to get two benefits in one... a smaller tire width to increase bite and mounting them in dual or triple applications to decrease the weight per square inch of ground pressure to reduce soil compaction The wider tire argument for flotation works well in some applications, but in general just is a fashion statement that offers no real benefit for the average driver and increases rolling resistance. Even wide mud tires have a place, but usually not for the average driver. I suppose if you are trying to imitate Nascar and corner at 80-100 mph, the wider tire would be of benefit on the road.

This is why we have so many varieties of tires... so many individual applications. Man.. What a Country!!

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Very informative, thank you.

The decreased flexing is one of the things I was going for when I got my tires, and they certainly aren't showing any signs of wear after almost 12k miles.

Are you serious though, that the 22.5" highway truck tires last 300k miles per set? :shock: Now I'm irritated that most of the tires I've bought (these included) are only rated for 50k miles! If the technology exists to make them last that much longer... We would have a lot less of a tire-disposal problem in this country!


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 10:15 pm 
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Quite positive after a quarter century and over 2.5 million miles that easily can get over 300K miles on a set of 22.5 LP drive tires. Most I have gotten is 415K. Luck on that one. I have NEVER gotten less than 300K. Usually get around 125K-150K on a set of steer rubber.

But think about it. If you were paying over $400 for a decent truck tire (even on sale), then your tires might last as long. Plus a lot of those miles are consistent highway miles. Obviously, a truck working say, road construction, would not get so good of life out of a tire.

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 11:05 pm 
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My Liberty is a daily driver. On reading earlier posts when faced with the new tire decision, I went with Revos. 235/70/16
They are so much better than stock that I want to hurt someone from Chrysler!
The Bridgestones are a quiet, comfortable road tire. Great in the wet but only OK in snow. A lot of my winter driving is on ice or barely freezing wet snow and the Revos are not even close to to the performance of a set of Nokians on another vehicle. Sigh.. maybe there is no ONE perfect tire

:cry:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:34 am 
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Turning is what wears out tires for the most part. If you take passenger tires and drive straight...they will go 100,000 miles with ease and much more. Truckers spend most of the time on open highway, so they get 300,000 miles of treadwear. I used to work for VT (Vehicular Testing Services) and someone did a test on a Mercedes or BMW and they went 800,000 on a set of tires straight line driving.

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Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:24 am 
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Over the last 200,000+ miles between my G Cherokee and Liberty I have run two sets of Firestone Destination LE's and one set of Firestone DestinationAT. The LE's are much quieter and smoother, great on wet, icy, snowy roads. The AT's offer even better traction but are noisier and more harsh on dry pavement. I just removed the AT's and will remount them when I do a lot of winter travel in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:16 am 
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.....absolutely agree that skinny tires are much better for cutting down to solid footing. Personal experience....I towed (on several occasions) with my old Jeep CJ7 running 32-9.5-15 mud tires, a full size Chevy Blazer (late 70's era) running 35-14.5-15 tires UP muddy logging roads. He just slid and floated all over the place, but the 9.5's just dug in and pulled and tractored along. It all has to do with ground pressure, as stated above. Farmers learned this a long time ago. Hell, I even got a set of some 9.5-16 ag tires for fun for that Jeep. Unstoppable.

But, since we're talking about a vehicle with a lot of clearance limitations (as stock)...you have to work with what you've got.....max lift limits....wheel well size limits....etc.
~M

* edit *
oh yeah...i agree heat is the tire mileage killer. Driving in NV, at speeds close to triple digits continuously, I eat up even highway truck tires. And this is mostly straight line driving. I went thru a set of Firstone Destination LE's in less than 18k.


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