Jeep Hybrid?

cmohr · **Posted:** Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:35 am

I believe that IF (notice my big IF) for electric city commuter cars to be an actual viable alternative, we really have to start thinking outside the box, and not just apply an electric motor to the same engineering we use with internal combustion engines. The concept of just pulling out the petrol engine and replacing it with an electric motor and battery, a second feul motor to run and charge that battery, and loss of power though the age old drive train of gearbox etc, has to be completely rethought. Yes, some are on the rifgt path, I have seen german designs with a motor in each wheel, thus less weight and power loss from the direct drive, but, then you still have to own and charge up those batteries, and they only have soooooo much life, and the environmental conserns with THAT many huge batteries is staggering. Energy Companys and manufactureres need to come together with a newer concept, Yes, you own the car, but, you don't own the battery, you buy rights to "Rent" one. IE, your vehicle has a large battery taking up what would normally be your engine bay, drive comes from motors in each wheel. When low on power, you drive into a rechage station, and thru a drive thru, that exchanges the battery with a fresh one, (Just like the Swap-n-go system places use for LPG BBQ cylinders) you drive off with a fully recharged unit. I'm not saying tommorrow, I'm not saying in 10 yrs, but, in 50 yrs it may very well be a standard everyday thing. As our energy storage technology increases a battery to run a car for 500 miles and at highway speeds in all likelyness will become smaller lighter and more cost effective. Look at the humble mobile cell phone, they used to be the size of a brick and would last for about 10minutes now they dissappear in you hand, last for a week and play all your music, and surf the internet as well.

Now , Yes, I understand that means a huge amount of inferstructure to build "Exchange centres" of course, but as I said, all busines involved need to come up with a solution together, and before you say I could never happen, you could never build such an inferstructure, it has already happened more than once before, with petrolium , yes, to our forfathers, seeing the introduction of the "Horseless Carrage" the whole concept seemed like a joke, Yes, the car ran, but, to make it work, there would have to be petrol stations all over the world so as you could fill up to drive further. The Car would never replace the horse, it just didn't seem possible :wink:

Think Cell phones.....once again the concept of a mobile cell network seemed inconcievable to set-up and manage and get people to use, but, now every man women and child has one and can't get by without one.

Don't get me wrong, I for one would be devistated at the concept of not having that rumble of a real engine, burning away the bonnet, but, it may very well be some thing that our childrens childrens children may not get to experience, except for when they go to a show and see some old guy there struggling to start some noisy old cluncking petrol engine stinking up the place and scaring one and all with it's foul stench. :lol:

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:29 am

InCommando wrote:

Xodius wrote:

InCom, I hate to tell you this but check out this link:
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledth ... ctric.html

Dude, that is even more of a propaganda BS machine than Michael Moore's crap. Just because it is a movie doesn't mean you have to suspend all ability to question bias & swallow a load hook, line, & sinker.

You mean that we're not:

A: doomed to fall to SkyNet
B: doomed to find out that SOILENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!
C: doomed to be a giant energy-plant in a late 1990s dream to feed a race of supermachines
D: doomed to a utopian society, until we thaw out Wesley Snipes who wreaks havoc, and then we have to thaw out Sylvester Stallone to defeat him
Shall I go on?

Because I believed all that, and more, because of movies :oops:

cmohr · **Posted:** Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:52 am

ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:

D: doomed to a utopian society, until we thaw out Wesley Snipes who wreaks havoc, and then we have to thaw out Sylvester Stallone to defeat him

Yes....Rocky Balboa will save the world :lol:

And he makes a delightful Tom Collins...

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:36 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

Hood297 wrote:

let them laugh. People laughed at the world not being flat... :roll:

Has anyone even given it a decent try? All I'm saying is that I would rule anything out, technology does advance, and will continue to. And last i checked, internal combustion engines, transmissions, diffs, and transfer cases don't take too kindly to mud and water inside them either.

If this has been working on boats that are in the water 24/7, and SALT WATER for that matter, I dont see how the sensitive electronics couldn't be waterproofed, a high grade potting will take care of most of the sensitive stuff, which could easily be placed high on the vehicle, and as long as they are submerged for a long period of time I don't see any problems...

an open mind never killed anyone. Yall may be right, It may fail miserably, but I would like to see a valient effort from a large company such as chrysler before I make any decisions.

It's not the fact that the electronics are not able to survive,it's the fact that very heavy and sensitive battery packs and weaker electric drive system would not be very good for anything besides a gravel road.Just imagine the spare parts you'd need to carry for a electric rock crawler :shock:

,plus the insane cost compared to gas versions.Look at most of the offroad mods being done to the more hardcore offroading vehicles,they are actually going backwards in tech as far as the powertrain,simplier is always better when you are miles from nowhere,cheaper to fix,easier to fix,and spare parts are cheaper/more availeable.Venturing off the pavement is highly risky enough but add in the fact you need to charge batteries every 100(or less) miles makes it a lose-lose situation unless you bring a very long extension cord.

Roll a TJ(or KJ) on a trail,90% of the time after you get it back on it's wheels that after some time you'll be able to start it up and continue.I'd say that rate would be cut to less then 25% with a electric vehicle,trying to protect that battery pack would be a nightmare,and those electric motors aren't to keen on those high shock loads that it would see either.

I'm not agaist electric cars(yes CARS),anything else is totally worthless at this monent or the forseeable future.Can't tow hardly anything,drive any good distance,or haul very much with a electric vehicle,goes for hybrids also(except the distance part).Your pretty much limited to the urban crawl and placing the Jeep emblem on one is a disgrace to the name in my opinion.

You may want to take a look at this video. It may elevate your opinion on electric vehicles off-road.
http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/mean-green-machines/mean-green-machines-red-rock-rumble/#clip34790
Mean Green Machines : Red Rock Rumble

tulsa · **Posted:** Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:00 am

Vertisce wrote:

I think they not only need to get batteries to a point where they last long enough but get alternators to a point where they can constantly charge the same amount or more than what the vehicle uses. Granted the oil companies will never allow it but...imagine an electric car that would never need gas at all or need any kind of recharging and could drive indefinately.

Granted the oil companies will never allow it?

Four wheel regenerative braking should lead to FWD hybrids with 4WD capabilities using no drive train to the rear, absolute traction control and torque out the wazoo, especially at low speeds. A small diesel engine in the range with 1.0-2.0l displacement should be impressive for torque and fuel efficiency when combined with electric motors at each wheel. Regenerative braking and the ability to kill the engine at stop lights and drive ins would make for great in city MPG's, highway MPG's are more dependent on wind drag.

snowsport · **Joined:** Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:52 pm **Posts:** 1211

I agree that it's only a matter of time until electric or electric hybrid applications work. The problems right now are how long can an electric vehicle hold a charge, and what do you do when the charge is gone, and you're in the middle of nowhere. So, we need much better batteries or a recharge system. Like others have mentioned, maybe a diesel generator instead of a battery bank? A solution is on its way, we need to dig it out and apply it.

Frankly, I'm surprised to hear anyone on this forum say "can't work" or "won't work". Your forefathers have set a better example. Historically, Ingenuity + Determination = Amazing Results. And this includes penetrating bureacracy, swinging resistant boards of directors, or whatever other obstacles have faced those who have gone before us.

Xodius · **Posted:** Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:47 am

60-100 miles per charge and a recharge time, lol. All we would need are pay outlets where we park and it would charge as we go. At night plug your vehicle in and recharge over the night, problem solved. I am not saying that the initial vehicles will not have limitations. I am simply saying that the tech is out there we are just not using it. Hell if you do some research on electric cars you will see that they have been around for a long time!

:roll:

You sound as bad as about 90% of the people in the Vegas valley in regards to recycling. "It is just too complicated" several say that daily. How freaking hard is it to toss glass in one bin, plastic in another and paper in the third? Seriously?? It is not like you have to toss it in your garbage and then root through it later, lol.
Now they, the garbage company, is redesigning the recycling to have one large bin so the company can recycle it all. WOW, people are DUMB and LAZY!!!! Do I recycle everything, no I don't. Some things are just not practical. For example paying 120 to get a box to mail your old light bulbs to a recycle center. That I find just crazy, however, I would have no problem going off grid, it is one of the reasons I am so attracted to Colorado. However, that is a different story.

Hood297 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:01 pm

InCommando wrote:

Hood297 wrote:

let them laugh. People laughed at the world not being flat... :roll:

Has anyone even given it a decent try? All I'm saying is that I would rule anything out, technology does advance, and will continue to. And last i checked, internal combustion engines, transmissions, diffs, and transfer cases don't take too kindly to mud and water inside them either.

If this has been working on boats that are in the water 24/7, and SALT WATER for that matter, I dont see how the sensitive electronics couldn't be waterproofed, a high grade potting will take care of most of the sensitive stuff, which could easily be placed high on the vehicle, and as long as they are submerged for a long period of time I don't see any problems...

an open mind never killed anyone. Yall may be right, It may fail miserably, but I would like to see a valient effort from a large company such as chrysler before I make any decisions.

I cannot imagine why the shareholders of any huge corp. would not be willing to shell out hundreds of millions of dollars just so you can make your decisions ( about what, I don't know) based on a valiant effort. :lol:

Realism has to have some part in this, folks. I want a jet pack that also serves me toast & jam as it takes me from place to place. Do you think I could get ChryCo to whip me up some prototypes to see if I'd really like it or not?

Well maybe because the shareholders are trying to get something good out of their investment, since they dropping 100 bucks at the pump a week, the economy is in the crapper. Also there are investors that are interested in green technology, if you attract that demographic then you will obviously have more capitol. When is the last time you said " Man I really can't wait to go to the gas station twice this week and spend the money I saved for that awesome new bumper, tires, lift, or college education." ?

Do you honestly think I am the only one that wants to see this technology?? you know i think your right, I haven't been able to recall anywhere in this thread that someone was interested in some of this, maybe thats why its currently 4 pages long... :roll:

hundreds of millions seems a little excessive to spend on a prototype diesel electric jeep. I want to see it rolling, and being demonstrated. Never did i say anywhere about putting anything into production.

Some of you Nay-sayers need to just take a step back, and open your mind some. If everyone had been like that we wouldn't have anywhere near the awesome things we have today.

InCommando · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:08 pm

You apparently have no idea what it takes to create an even fairly pedestrian one-off show vehicle. Now you want them to make 1 of practically alien technology. The cost would be huge, absolutely huge, as you want a functioning prototype, but just one, that tests the actual ability of the technology. So, a basically production-ready version. But they must be willing to abandon the concept immediately if it doesn't satisfy you.

I still stand firmly behind my statements that refinement of current tech. is the answer, and not pie-in-the-sky tech in this cash-strapped economic period. You still ignore infrastructure and several other minor details ( :shock:

) such as that.

Now, I think I will go decide whether to take my jet-pack or flying car to the mall today........

Xodius, many on here are biotching about the cost of fuel and/or emissions. So, do you expect those charging stations to be built for free? Obvioulsy a pay charging station would require profit, unless you step us further along the communist path. Do you see the "infrastructure" comments? That does not just magically appear. And just becasue no emissions may emit from a tail pipe doesn't mean it is emissions free. Where does this country get its electricity, by & large? Can we say "fossil fuels?" I thought we could. Oh, what, because you cannot see the emissions, they do not exist? :roll:

Increased demand would instantly result in increases for energy costs, as well. But now where cars do not compete directly with many home heating/cooling & other power needs, you want to assure everyone gets stuck by having our cars compete for the same energy. Nice. In many places heat is a neccessity while cars are not a neccessity anywhere. But a few more freezing needy people doesn't matter, huh?

The NIMBY greenies have stifled energy production here for decades, and are not about to stop now. There will be no round of new electric plants to meet any new demand. Yep, making our cars contribute to brown-outs and people not being able to afford home energy is just the answer.

Xodius · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:42 pm

InCommando wrote:

You apparently have no idea what it takes to create an even fairly pedestrian one-off show vehicle. Now you want them to make 1 of practically alien technology. The cost would be huge, absolutely huge, as you want a functioning prototype, but just one, that tests the actual ability of the technology. So, a basically production-ready version. But they must be willing to abandon the concept immediately if it doesn't satisfy you.

I still stand firmly behind my statements that refinement of current tech. is the answer, and not pie-in-the-sky tech in this cash-strapped economic period. You still ignore infrastructure and several other minor details ( :shock:

) such as that.

Now, I think I will go decide whether to take my jet-pack or flying car to the mall today........

Xodius, many on here are biotching about the cost of fuel and/or emissions. So, do you expect those charging stations to be built for free? Obvioulsy a pay charging station would require profit, unless you step us further along the communist path. Do you see the "infrastructure" comments? That does not just magically appear. And just becasue no emissions may emit from a tail pipe doesn't mean it is emissions free. Where does this country get its electricity, by & large? Can we say "fossil fuels?" I thought we could. Oh, what, because you cannot see the emissions, they do not exist? :roll:

Increased demand would instantly result in increases for energy costs, as well. But now where cars do not compete directly with many home heating/cooling & other power needs, you want to assure everyone gets stuck by having our cars compete for the same energy. Nice. In many places heat is a neccessity while cars are not a neccessity anywhere. But a few more freezing needy people doesn't matter, huh?

The NIMBY greenies have stifled energy production here for decades, and are not about to stop now. There will be no round of new electric plants to meet any new demand. Yep, making our cars contribute to brown-outs and people not being able to afford home energy is just the answer.

OK after 5 retypes I am going to simply say, your a moron. There are just too many ways to debunk what you just said and frankly you are not worth my time.

Edvalencia · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:47 pm

LET'S KEEP THIS THREAD CIVIL. REMEMBER THAT PERSONAL ATTACKS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED IN THIS FORUM.

Ed V.
Forum Admin

InCommando · **Posted:** Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:14 pm

People expecting unicorns to create electric plants that are powered by butterfly farts are being unrealistic. But magically, the electricty needed for electric plug-in cars is going to be outside of the loop, even in those areas who can only barely meet demand now? Name-call all you want, this is not going to change by your tapping your heels together. You know what they say about someone who has to resort to name-calling & the quality of their argument? Next I presume I will be a Nazi... :lol:

Someone mentioned pioneer spirit. We should also remember personal freedom. We could cut automotive fuel consumption in half buy eliminating the production or importation of any vehicle larger than a Chevy Aveo, but that is not what America is about. If you are hurting, you have my sympathy. Just do not try to make me suffer with you. I will drive whatever I chose until the leftists take away that freedom, at which time I think there will be a repeat of 1861 in the U.S.A.

Jeep Hybrid?

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