Delayed Transmission Engagement - Fixed

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:29 am

Rabid.

Back when F-37 came out in late 06 a good percentage of them were returned to the dealers with symptoms like yours and then the pumps were replaced. The older pumps did/do not seal well after being taken appart and reinstalled :shock:

danoid · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:51 am

Mine is in the shop for analysis. Hopefully we'll get to the true root cause soon.

artickid · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:34 pm

After two weeks in the shop all I got was the extended warranty. $100.00 for any repair for 5 years or 130,000 total vehicle miles.

RabidRdKill · **Posted:** Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:12 pm

Dropped it off - No - Threw it at the service manager this evening. Sad part it was just carelessness on their part.

Driving north midday today from beautiful Toledo, OH on I-75 when I hit the rear washer to clean some dust off the back window - funny thing the dust started smearing. :cry:

Get into the parking structure at the office and the back is covered with a fine greasy spray and a quick glance shows something all over the undercarriage. Check the tranny fluid, oil both are full so at the end of the day I drive it home.

Put it up on jackstands,slide underneath, to find the bottom, back, side of the oil pan, bell housing, side of the oil filter, trans pan covered in what feels like grease - even a little bit up on the starter. Sit there staring at it for a while trying to figure out where in the world grease came from - then I see it: 3 of the bolts that secure the front prop shaft to the front diff input flange are loose - backed out an inch. :shock:

Never tightened - lucky it stayed on at all. I realize the grease must have spun out of the CV joint and was now everywhere. Upon further inspection the trans output speed sensor was disconnected - found the takeout sitting on top of the transmission. (Probably explains why the MIL came on yesterday too.) Clearly they took the front prop off to remove the trans and didn't resecure it.

Angry, sad, dissapointed - you name it. The dealers bear just as much of the blame for the sad state of my industry as the Big 3 do.

At least this time they gave me a loaner to drive - an 07 KJ Gasser off the used car lot. Feels similar but that satisifying diesel sound just isn't there. Needless to say they've probably lost my business forever - leased all my wife's minvians there. O wait I can't do that anymore anyway. This isn't the first bad service experience at this dealer, but by far it's the worst.

Oh and so far here on day 3 no more delayed engagement.

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:56 am

RabidRdKill wrote:

Angry, sad, dissapointed - you name it. The dealers bear just as much of the blame for the sad state of my industry as the Big 3 do.

At least this time they gave me a loaner to drive - an 07 KJ Gasser off the used car lot. Feels similar but that satisifying diesel sound just isn't there. Needless to say they've probably lost my business forever - leased all my wife's minvians there. O wait I can't do that anymore anyway. This isn't the first bad service experience at this dealer, but by far it's the worst.

Oh and so far here on day 3 no more delayed engagement.

You've just encapsulated why I'm scared to death of taking the CRD in for a problem. The only dealer I trust not to make bozo mistakes like that (with 3 less than 10 miles from my house) is about an hour away and I can't afford to make that drive (take off work, get a babysitter, etc) just to avoid idiot dealers

danoid · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:58 am

RabidRdKill wrote:

Angry, sad, dissapointed - you name it. The dealers bear just as much of the blame for the sad state of my industry as the Big 3 do.

Yup, when my dealership did the F37 they forgot to reattach all of the bolts from the transmission bellhousing to the engine. The moment the torque converter locked up there was an annoying rattle. The only benefit is that becuase I assumed the rattle was in the dashboard, my dash and steering column are now very quiet. (And I was very frustrated also - completely due to dealer incompetence)

I wish the dealerships weren't able to hide their incompetence under the reputation of the manufacturers. (Since they create at least half of the problems.) But 90% of the people that had your issue would blame 'Jeep.'

BVCRD · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:49 pm

It's been a couple a years since I read about it on here but the TSB was about a tube that was split or splits on it's own that leaks tranny fluid back and it is replaced under warranty if you still are in warranty.

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:57 am

I was under mine last weekend. When they did the F37, they neglected to tie down the wiring that goes to the rear sensor on the passenger side of the tranny, so it dropped down onto the exhaust and melted everything... same kind of sloppy it seems.

Mark

dgeist wrote:

RabidRdKill wrote:

Angry, sad, dissapointed - you name it. The dealers bear just as much of the blame for the sad state of my industry as the Big 3 do...

You've just encapsulated why I'm scared to death of taking the CRD in for a problem. The only dealer I trust not to make bozo mistakes like that (with 3 less than 10 miles from my house) is about an hour away and I can't afford to make that drive (take off work, get a babysitter, etc) just to avoid idiot dealers

danoid · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:09 pm

Well I ended up with a new torque converter, pump, filters, and valve body. Both the delayed engagement and stalling after a 10 foot drive and stop are fixed.

During the teardown the mechanic noted a host of stripped nuts, both on the trans crossmember to body and on the trans mount to crossmember. Can't tell if it was the previous dealership that screwed them all up or one just started to work loose and took the rest with it.

I still don't have a parts autopsy, but I'll keep bugging them.

C's CRD · **Posted:** Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:44 am

Well, I had the delayed engagement, could not shift into gear at times, and it did not want to up shift past 2 or maybe 3rd. The dealer is ordering the valve body and pump. We'll see if it works.

danoid · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:09 am

Valve vody analysis is in, it wasn't solenoid switch valve bore wear. The solenoid switch valve switches a solenoid (funny how it ended up with that name) between locking the 1st gear reaction clutch and the torque converter lockup clutch. If it's stuck in the middle (or leaking) the solenoid will attempt to apply both clutches and could result in the stalling issue.

Pump analysis is next, I had the F37 done (at a really bad dealership) and they didn't replace the pump or flash the TCM.

Unfortunately the torque converter is MIA at the lab so I can't examine it. That's what I was most curious about.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:20 am

One of the improvements done by Suncoast involves upgrading the TCC apply piston and sealing, apparently necessary even in the Hemi version, which is what they supply to us for the CRD - also gets larger clutch area and upgraded friction material, suitable to withstand racing pressures

Could have been leaking between vb sections, as they used no gasket material, only the metal logic plates

Could also be the main filter seal-ring-sleeve - they're absolutely specific about installation procedures for that li'l piece of rubber

Sure be interesting to get a handle on this, as same complaint shows up here every so often - fyi: mine's never done it (we bought it pre-owned @50kmi), and it's at 68kmi, but had F37 and new pump and new oem TC at 42K in Apr07, then the self-installed Suncoast\Transgo upgrade in NOV07 (didn't change the filters) - drop it in gear and the mule lurches, straining at the reins - one reason I always shift to Neutral at each stop

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

Mine has the new pump, the Suncoast, just got the pan dropped, filter changed, and transgo installed. Still needs to wait a few seconds before going into gear first thing in the morning... guess it is something else in the valve body then? I am getting tired of taking this thing apart. It is going to get worn out taking it apart and putting it back together before it dies of old age.

I guess I will just keep driving it till it dies, then start over with a race built one, as the warranty is about up and they brake more than they fix. It drives nice once warmed up, just does not like to go until it has had a few seconds first.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:17 am

Does it still happen with the Transgo resistor installed in the pressure sender?

And was that filter a typo, meaning filters - the flat one must have the seal installed exactly as they indicate in the instructions, or won't pick up the fluid properly - also, that little round one has the ainti-drainback valve which, of course, prevents drain-back - the defective one p\n begins with a 4, the new and improved filter p\n begins with 5

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

gmctd wrote:

Does it still happen with the Transgo resistor installed in the pressure sender?

And was that filter a typo, meaning filters - the flat one must have the seal installed exactly as they indicate in the instructions, or won't pick up the fluid properly - also, that little round one has the ainti-drainback valve which, of course, prevents drain-back - the defective one p\n begins with a 4, the new and improved filter p\n begins with 5

No resistor installed, as I told them not do that as I did not want it shifting that firm (offroad and all). They did the filter changes and it shows a filter kit on the invoice. No part numbers. I could ask him. Still, it should be no big deal if I just let it warm up first in neutral before putting it in gear? After it warms up, everything is good and it has plenty of pull.

mark2m · **Posted:** Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:24 pm

I've been experiencing the same symptoms the last few months but without the stalling issue. Didn't think much of it but lately I've had the stalling once in a while. I've learned to stop without stalling it now at least. Either or I'm just a couple thousand miles from warranty running out. Time to go back to the dealer. Just had them replace a leaking rear pinion yoke seal a couple days ago. They are going to love me. Right before warranty ends.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:04 pm

I did an interesting tranny test. When I stop at a light and bump it into neutral, you feel the vehicle jerk as the pressure on the brakes is now gone. The engine says yaaaaa.
Now put it back into drive, wait, and bump it back into neutral. No jerk. Why?
It seems that when you first stop, the converter is not fully disengaging or going into full stall easily. Is this a converter issue or tranny issue?

On a side note, my 99 Cummins with the 747 tranny does the above but always pulls even when you put it back into drive. The Cummins is always ready to go.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:08 pm

It's line pressure, or the underdrive clutch circuit in the valve body, or the convertor clutch regulator in the pump - that's one reason Transgo supplys the new pump parts in the shift kit

danoid · **Posted:** Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:54 am

Part of the bump you're feeling on the first Drive -> Neutral could also be a suspension unload from the brakes. Numerous drivers including myself have noted a bump when releasing the brakes after a moderately hard stop (keeping in Drive the whole time).

The first shift unloads the suspension, the Neutral -> Drive shift is modulated to be as soft as possible, (little suspension load, about the same mount load), so the second Drive -> Neutral (always a 'dump' shift in this transmission, the clutches are just vented to the sump) could feel better.

EDIT: I just remembered that I had my trans out recently and there were 5 or 6 stripped nuts in from the trans mount and crossmember that were repaired. I need to go out and see if the brake bump is still alive and well in mine.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

I can tell you that at slow speeds while braking to a stop, if you push the trans selector to "N" while stopping-- it will nose stand as soon as it it disconnects the rest of the driveline-- with no increased pressure on the brake pedal. It has always been this way. I noticed it really bad when the brakes were new, as they did not stop very well before they broke in and you would have to just about stand on the pedal to stop for the first week or so. Scary. I have never had the engine stall since getting the Suncoast.

Several of the older automatics (RWD w V8) I have had were like this-- always ready to go. I assumed it was normal and have never worried about it. I will have to see if the trans does not engage the second time.

Delayed Transmission Engagement - Fixed

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