Coming to a pump near you?

blake1827 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:33 pm

Coming to a pump near you?
New label requirements for Biodiesel/Biomass diesel fuels effective on December 16, 2008 from: http://biodiesel.org/resources/PR_suppo ... abels.shtm

…To distinguish the fuels further, the final amendments change the background color for fuels containing biomass-based diesel to orange, rather than the blue required for biodiesel labels. The Commission institutes this change for two reasons. First, the orange biomass-based 15 diesel label will contrast with the blue biodiesel label, making it easier for consumers to distinguish between the two fuels. Second, biomass-based diesel, at least as it is currently sold,
does not appear to pose engine warranty problems, or other unique concerns, for consumers. It is, therefore, appropriate to use the same background color as that used for all other previously covered alternative fuels. Finally, the Commission is revising the amendments to make clear that, for purposes of determining whether and how to disclose the presence of biodiesel or biomass-based diesel in fuels, their concentrations should be counted separately. Thus, the final amendments define the term “biodiesel blend” as a blend containing more than five percent biodiesel, and it defines a new term, “biomass-based diesel blend,” as a blend containing more than five percent biomassbased diesel.
The final amendments also explicitly do not cover blends that “contain less than or equal to 5 percent biodiesel by volume and less than or equal to 5 percent biomass-based diesel by volume.” These changes are consistent with EISA’s provision that retailers need not disclose biodiesel and biomass-based diesel in concentrations of five percent or less.
pgs 12-13*

ConocoPhillips noted that biodiesel blends contain methyl ester and that engine manufacturers generally recommend using fuels containing no more than a certain amount of methyl ester. By contrast, ConocoPhillip’s renewable (biomass)diesel blends do not currently contain methyl ester. pg 7*
ConocoPhillip’s acknowledgment that it markets renewable diesel blends at an unspecified concentration pg 28*

The final amendments, however, require biomass-based diesel labels to have an orange background. pg 16*

In addition, we (FTC) understand that there are no biomass-based diesel fuels currently marketed at concentrations above twenty percent pg 20*

Retailers do not have to disclose the presence of five percent or less biodiesel and/or five percent or less biomass-based diesel in a fuel, provided that the fuel meets the specifications contained in ASTM D97514 pg 23*

I thought it was interesting the statements of Conoco on there distrobution of biomass fuel. Maybe if people don't know what's in there fuel they wont be so afraid of it?

*Page numbers refer to doc: http://biodiesel.org/resources/PR_suppo ... Labels.pdf

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:44 pm

Great find!!! now if only Colorado had more bio diesel for sale

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:09 pm

As Moses was fond of saying: "What the flock, over?!?!?!?!?" What the heck is Biomass - I thought dino was biomass? What're we talkin' here: Garfield, Phydeaux, and old retired racehorsies? Or, pondscum?

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:16 pm

sea weed............................

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:56 am

gmctd wrote:

As Moses was fond of saying: "What the flock, over?!?!?!?!?" What the heck is Biomass - I thought dino was biomass? What're we talkin' here: Garfield, Phydeaux, and old retired racehorsies? Or, pondscum?

Thermo depolymerization derived diesel.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... eyoil.html

tulsa · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:48 am

"The proof will be in the turkey slurry."

What a great line.

Lewis

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:17 pm

Biomass is what has been referred to as "renewable" diesel. Turkey oil and chicken fat. Nice little bone they threw Archer Daniels Midland and Conoco Phillips in the last energy bill. By adding in a certain percentage of this "biomass" diesel in at their existing refineries during the process of refining crude oil into #2 diesel, they get to claim the same tax credits as were originally intended for the strictly biodiesel producers - ie, the oil companies get to claim the same $1/gallon tax credit. As if they weren't making enough profit already with diesel at $4/gallon.

Net effect has been the oil companies are now sucking up all the feedstock for this type of "biomass" diesel, running up the price, and gradually squeezing the small scale biodiesel producers out of business. And that's why many biodiesel producers have entered into contracts to supply their entire output to the European market instead of selling it domestically as intended - it's the only way they can survive financially.

blake1827 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:20 pm

retmil46 wrote:

Biomass is what has been referred to as "renewable" diesel. Turkey oil and chicken fat. Nice little bone they threw Archer Daniels Midland and Conoco Phillips in the last energy bill. By adding in a certain percentage of this "biomass" diesel in at their existing refineries during the process of refining crude oil into #2 diesel, they get to claim the same tax credits as were originally intended for the strictly biodiesel producers - ie, the oil companies get to claim the same $1/gallon tax credit. As if they weren't making enough profit already with diesel at $4/gallon.

Net effect has been the oil companies are now sucking up all the feedstock for this type of "biomass" diesel, running up the price, and gradually squeezing the small scale biodiesel producers out of business. And that's why many biodiesel producers have entered into contracts to supply their entire output to the European market instead of selling it domestically as intended - it's the only way they can survive financially.

My hope is biomass does become a reality, and it should lower the cost of biomass diesel blended fuels. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a lot of solid info on biomass diesel or it's lubricity/lowered emmisions compared to biodiesel. I did send an email to ConocoPhillips inquiring further besides there vague statements and lack of info from there website but don't expect an answer. If I do get a response I'll update it in this thread.

dgeist · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:11 pm

retmil46 wrote:

Biomass is what has been referred to as "renewable" diesel. Turkey oil and chicken fat. Nice little bone they threw Archer Daniels Midland and Conoco Phillips in the last energy bill. By adding in a certain percentage of this "biomass" diesel in at their existing refineries during the process of refining crude oil into #2 diesel, they get to claim the same tax credits as were originally intended for the strictly biodiesel producers - ie, the oil companies get to claim the same $1/gallon tax credit. As if they weren't making enough profit already with diesel at $4/gallon.

If poultry-based bio is "biomass-diesel" then that's what I was using for about a year before the North-GA supplier started selling all of it abroad. it was great stuff and really did smell like chicken when you burned it.

Now my bio is all waste-oil based and doesn't pack the same calories per unit volume, methinks.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:13 pm

retmil46 wrote:

As if they weren't making enough profit already with diesel at $4/gallon.

You have to let that go dude, no one else is working on a smaller margin that the Oil companies. The feds and your state are making much more off a gallon of diesel than the producers do and they have none of the burden of bringing it to market.

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:27 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

As if they weren't making enough profit already with diesel at $4/gallon.

You have to let that go dude, no one else is working on a smaller margin that the Oil companies. The feds and your state are making much more off a gallon of diesel than the producers do and they have none of the burden of bringing it to market.

The same wonderful oil companies that have to get tax breaks to build new refineries and land giveaways to expand drilling. Obviously restricting supply makes them more money, so we have to bribe and plead.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:50 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

As if they weren't making enough profit already with diesel at $4/gallon.

You have to let that go dude, no one else is working on a smaller margin that the Oil companies. The feds and your state are making much more off a gallon of diesel than the producers do and they have none of the burden of bringing it to market.

Are you kidding me? You can't really believe that the crap that they feed to the press. Oil producers have never reported higher profits in history than during the past two years. There is no other industry on the planet that consistently reports higher profits to investors. Federal tax amounts to only 24.4 cents per gallon. The average Federal + state tax is 55 cents per gallon of diesel. The cost of production for a barrel of crude ranges from $7 from established easily accessed well (like in most of the middle east) to almost $50 per barrel from unconventional sources like tar sands, oil shale and extreme deep ocean wells. To say that the cost is a result of artificial valuation by the stock market is also completely untrue. The price is elevated because oil conglomerates in cooperation With OPEC and Like nations, have reduced production at the same time as global demand is rising. You can't blame the oil execs for wanting to make a good return to investors but there is a point where greed kicks in.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:57 pm

dgeist wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

Biomass is what has been referred to as "renewable" diesel. Turkey oil and chicken fat. Nice little bone they threw Archer Daniels Midland and Conoco Phillips in the last energy bill. By adding in a certain percentage of this "biomass" diesel in at their existing refineries during the process of refining crude oil into #2 diesel, they get to claim the same tax credits as were originally intended for the strictly biodiesel producers - ie, the oil companies get to claim the same $1/gallon tax credit. As if they weren't making enough profit already with diesel at $4/gallon.

If poultry-based bio is "biomass-diesel" then that's what I was using for about a year before the North-GA supplier started selling all of it abroad. it was great stuff and really did smell like chicken when you burned it.

Now my bio is all waste-oil based and doesn't pack the same calories per unit volume, methinks.

The stuff that was being sold in the Atlanta area was FAME and FAEE Biodiesel derived from chicken fat, and yeah it was great. The difference between that and "Biomass Diesel" is that the latter is an actual diesel identical to Petro diesel in chemistry and doesn't smell like chicken.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:29 am

JL Rockies wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

As if they weren't making enough profit already with diesel at $4/gallon.

You have to let that go dude, no one else is working on a smaller margin that the Oil companies. The feds and your state are making much more off a gallon of diesel than the producers do and they have none of the burden of bringing it to market.

So I guess the Dept of Energy and GAO were flat out lying when they stated that the refiners were clearing over 50 cents/gallon profit on diesel? :roll:

Add in the $1/gallon tax credit for mixing in a certain percentage of bio, and they're clearing $1.50/gallon - that's better than 30% profit.

Coming to a pump near you?

Who is online