Front ARB or TT?

KY Liberty · **Joined:** Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:46 pm **Posts:** 1195

Parts of this are in other threads, but I thought a new thread is in order for the full thing. Sorry it's long, but here's the info you'll probably need to give advice. Here's my situation.

I think I will almost never need anything up front. I've never even needed 4WDLow yet. I'm over 50k miles since the 4.10's, and over 75k total. My goal is for it to be the perfect vehicle to get me to the ski resorts. I'm getting some noises from the rear that sounds like a bearing problem to a couple mechanics so I'm going ahead and getting it rebuilt with new bearings, seals, TrueTrac, HD axle shafts, u-joints, wheel studs, and Riddler diff cover. It also just got new drums and shoes.

I'm expecting some of the front to start to wear out within the next year since it's lifted with an FL2P and has as many miles as the rear, just aren't the driving wheels most of the time. I'm going to get the JE Reel CV axle shafts, and Moogs for the lowers. I'd like to find a collar, or something to help strengthen the diff housing. I want to setup the front diff to help get me through a couple feet of snow on the occassions I get into that. I don't want to be bothered with something that I'm going to notice on a regular basis, or something that will tear up my tires or drivetrain. It looks like my options are the ARB with a small hidden compressor, or the TrueTrac like I'm getting put in the back.

My usage is as a daily driver driven 11 miles round trip to the office with 35, 45, and 55 mph zones in between, with turns at stop signs and lights. The roads are usually dry. When it does rain, they get slicker than they look, but 2WD with the Silent Armors and factory LSD does fine in it. Feels safer in torrential rain in the FT4WD. We get light snow in the winter, with plenty of ice and slush. I go out to the Sportsmen's League and drive the hilly gravel roads, and it see's some fairly rough gravel and hills that get very icey and snow covered out at the farm. The FT4WD does great with the current setup in these situations, and only need the PT4WD in abnormally bad weather here. I go on weekly ski trips to Perfect North during the winter, and sometimes the 1.5 hour trip can be very icey and treacherous. I also go skiing in WV at places like Snowshoe, Timeberline, and Canaan a few times each winter. I want the Liberty to always be able to get me to my ski trips. I'll be horrible to deal with the day it fails to.

Both are within my price range, so that isn't a factor. I just want it to work really well. With these conditions in this situation which of the ARB or the TrueTrac would work the best? I really appreciate the adivce and experience anyone can offer.

Inc · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:21 pm

Well if money isn't an issue, why not get the ARB? Then you can use 2WD with the TT which is a good start, then 4wd without the locker, and then if you get stuck, the locker is a switch away.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:35 pm

Like incubusmike said since both are in your price range I'd go with the ARB so you can still have full use of your FullTime option and when you really need that extra grip you can just flip a switch and are fully locked in the front but it will be totally invisible when not locked in.

I had the DTT up front but I did not have the SelectTrac t-case so I was always on slippery surfaces when 4wd was engaged.I loved the DTT and will(and have been :cry:

) miss the DTT up front,it was awesome in the snow and ice,just turned the steering wheel and my KJ turned on a dime even on ice when that DTT "locked",and I never had to worry about it since it was fully automatic.I'm going with the ARB up front/rear for my SFA swap,I have had the rear ARB installed in the 8.25 for some time and it's awesome and I have not had any problems with mine in over 2 years and 35,000miles.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:05 pm

If money isn’t an issue, then ARB would seem to be the most logical approach IMO. In addition, if money isn’t an option, why wouldn’t you go with an ARB in the front and rear? The ARB is the strongest locker on the market. You’ve already mentioned that you want full-time 4 wheel drive to work effectively, so ARB is the answer again. The locker takes the KJ to a new level, so why not install a true locker that performs the way a locker is suppose to. You simply flip the switch, the compressor automatically comes on, and within a few seconds, you are locked. And with a flip of a switch, you are unlocked.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:29 pm

If you're driving on snowy roads - do you really want to be switching the front on/off at every corner? every turn?
Is a front locker really a good idea? - I think the DTT is better for snowy streets.
ARB for off road - yes absolutely - snowy streets? I think limited slip is better than locked.

now if one of the Colorado folks - or other snow areas
someone who has an ARB front and has driven say Ute pass - with left turns snow packed and right turns clear & dry. wants to correct me. I'll accept that, but it's not obvious that a front locker is a good idea.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:40 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

If you're driving on snowy roads - do you really want to be switching the front on/off at every corner? every turn?
Is a front locker really a good idea? - I think the DTT is better for snowy streets.
ARB for off road - yes absolutely - snowy streets? I think limited slip is better than locked.

now if one of the Colorado folks - or other snow areas
someone who has an ARB front and has driven say Ute pass - with left turns snow packed and right turns clear wants to correct me. I'll accept that, but it's not obvious that a front locker is a good idea.

He has full-time all wheel drive, therefore he wouldn't need to use his ARB.

KY Liberty · **Joined:** Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:46 pm **Posts:** 1195

The SelecTrac does well with an LSD in the rear for my usage. I wouldn't really need anything extra. I really just want it for when I need to climb the side of a mountain in a foot or two of snow and ice to get to a slopeside house, or take the take the back route on the farm between the houses in the snow or after a lot of rain. I slip around a little in those situations, but nothing bad. A little fun when on purpose, but a little scarry when unexpected. It would be easiest if it is all automatic like the DTT going in the rear, but I would want it to behave in FT4WD as well is it does in the rear. From the sounds of things it won't. Considering how well it does with the factory LSD, I think I'll be really happy with the DTT in the rear. I'm thinking that if I had the ARB it would be just about unstoppable for what I put it through.

So, what about air sources for it? I would prefer something that doesn't take up space in the passenger area or rear storage area. If a CO2 system will give really good benefits I can make an exception, but I know from N2O that I don't really care for having to get a bottle filled. I'd like something small that can be hidden, but could power the single front locker, and being able to air up the tires could be a really nice feature. I wouldn't need to run air tools or anything like that.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:40 pm

Let me get it right then comment on what I am reading
you are 100% getting a TT in the rear
you never or almost never need 4wd low
you use 4wd full time ,the mode "safe" for road driving, often
you want to improve the off road performance

if all this is correct I am going to assume you know how the 242 works because it seems that some who have posted in this topic do not and even after trying to explain it they still do not get it
so what I would do if this were me is get the TT for the front
any thing more and the front will be pulling the rear instead of the rear pushing the front
this is not all bad but the 30a may not like it much
with say an ARB in the front then both front wheels will get the same power NO MATTER WHAT but the TT in the rear will give power to 1 of the 2 wheels
this will force a bunch of load on to the front diff ,100% of the force needed to move the KJ if you get into an extreme off camber situation going up hill this could end badly
now if you reverse it and put the ARB rear and TT front you will be golden
the rear can handle that load ,and like I said if you know how the 242 works then the TT up front is fine when using full time

look here
listen to the video about selec trac 2 ,not 100% the same but close enough ,you have full time and part time 4wd high as well as 4wd low
http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/systems_by_vehicle/

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:04 pm

jason thompson wrote:

now if you reverse it and put the ARB rear and TT front you will be golden

I agree completely, it makes more sense to go with an ARB in the rear. That’s why I say go with the ARB in the front and rear knowing that you have the ability to completely shut-off the lockers and run full time 4-wheel drive. I don't see how one can argue that this isn't the best set-up for his application.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:06 pm

Quote:

so what I would do if this were me is get the TT for the front
any thing more and the front will be pulling the rear instead of the rear pushing the front

Not to keep correcting you but all 4wd's the front is pulling the rear since the front gears are always slightly higher then the rear gears,so the front tires are spinning faster then the rears and that's why,unless you get crazy with the skinny pedal,in mud you can keep it going in a fairly straight line instead of fighting to keep the rear end from passing the front end(same goes for snow and ice).

A KJ with 4.10's has 4.10's in the rear and the front D30A gears are actually 4.09's.It's been that way since day one.A locker in the front,like a ARB,is always more effective in a front diff then in a rear diff.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:27 pm

I found this little piece of information:

"However, when the going gets really tough, the TrueTrac did take some finesse to make it lock up and pull with a front wheel in the air, for example. Now, when I see an extreme obstacle coming, I just flip both switches on (he's talking about the ARB), grab a low gear and focus 100% on driving, no worries about working brakes and gas pedals, just steering. Also, there is a bit less axle hop with the ARB, as it has no play to it as compared to the TrueTrac (or Detroit for that matter). I can now get all 4 wheels turning slowly, work the steering side to side, find some traction and keep going. Before, in similar situations, the truck would start hopping as you lost traction, which then meant reversing and trying a different line."

jason thompson · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:37 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

Quote:

so what I would do if this were me is get the TT for the front
any thing more and the front will be pulling the rear instead of the rear pushing the front

Not to keep correcting you but all 4wd's the front is pulling the rear since the front gears are always slightly higher then the rear gears,so the front tires are spinning faster then the rears and that's why,unless you get crazy with the skinny pedal,in mud you can keep it going in a fairly straight line instead of fighting to keep the rear end from passing the front end(same goes for snow and ice).

A KJ with 4.10's has 4.10's in the rear and the front D30A gears are actually 4.09's.It's been that way since day one.A locker in the front,like a ARB,is always more effective in a front diff then in a rear diff.

Look say what you want
I had an ARB front LSD ,trash lock, rear
going up slick hills ,I do it every time I am in 4wd, this was not near as good as it is now with a Detroit rear and open front
now if I need the ARB it is there
before the detroit I was on the ARB 10X more than I am now, same trails and same Jeep

Fact is that the 242 will allow the front to only get power when the rear is slipping
locker or LSD or open in the front or rear

oh and you are not the smartest person here
you post over and over about the axle gears and I fully know about the fact that you can have differences in the front to rear to some extent but basically the same
this has NOTHING t do with that or I would have brought it up
stop tooting your own horn it is getting old
read up on how the selec trac works then get back to me

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:48 pm

Quote:

Fact is that the 242 will allow the front to only get power when the rear is slipping
locker or LSD or open in the front or rear

Again.......................

I know how the 242 works and if the rear wheels are slipping and you are in FullTime 4wd all the power will go to the slipping wheels making any LSD or locker useless if it is mounted in the axle slipping.The center diff in the 242 is just like a open diff,the power(AKA torque) will always go to the path of least resistance,IE the slipping wheel/wheels and that "OPEN CENTER DIFF" in the t-case is what allows you to drive on hard surfaces without damaging your driveline from binding.Now if your in PartTime 4wd with the SelectTrac t-case you will always have 50% power to the front and 50% power to the rear,same gows for if your in 4low.

Now those new fancy QuadritracI/II have a viscus clutch and acts like a LSD which works the way you stated but the 242 SelectTrac t-case in the KJ does not work like that at all.

Quote:

read up on how the selec trac works then get back to me

You might want to take your own advise because you don't know how the 242 t-case in a KJ works.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:54 pm

KY, are you getting the answer that you wanted? :lol:

Are you more confused now than before? :shock:

Here’s the deal, you already said that you prefer using the fulltime 4 wheel drive option. And you already know that the ARB will allow your fulltime 4 wheel drive to do it’s job. In my opinion, you have basically answered your own question. :wink:

In any circumstance, you aren’t going to be flying down the road if the roads are too icy or snowed over. You will use your fulltime 4 wheel drive most of the time. But, if you ever get thrown into a ditch, there isn’t anything better than flipping the switch from the comfort of your seat and knowing that you are locked and ready to get out with an ARB.

tommudd · **Posted:** Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:11 pm

I am getting confused now the longer this goes on :lol:

ARBSeth · **Posted:** Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:22 pm

You don't need the locker.
You just don't...you don't off road it hard enough and TT's are a little better for street driving on the snow.
But I didn't say that...
Here's the deal, if you wheel, then get ours. There is no substitute for the selectable off road and if you're having trouble in the snow on the road, it's there if you need it. But having said that, there is a reason Posi's outsell lockers 5-1. They work well for guys like you. Keeps you going straight on the road in the slick stuff without having worry about crash locking. That, and they're $500 cheaper.

Go ARB! The only place where we'll tell you you might not need our stuff. So you can trust what we say.

Again, I didn't say that... I was never here.

KY Liberty · **Joined:** Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:46 pm **Posts:** 1195

I really appreciate your honesty Seth. I know I probably will never need anything up front. I would just like to have it in case I get into trouble. Kind of like a winch for you off roaders. I'm going with the TrueTrac to replace the factory LSD in the rear, which I know is probably all I'll ever need. It's sitting in a box in the back of the Jeep right now. I would like a TrueTrac in the front if it would be very transparent, but it doesn't sound like that would be the case in FT4WD. The ARB sounds like a good option for me. I can flip a switch and it is there during the couple times it might help, but open just like now the rest of the time. The price differance doesn't bother me as going all out with an ARB is in next summer's Jeep budget already. Plus, you guys know how I am. Do you really think I have the ability to stop doing upgrades on it?

What is this crash locking? Do I need to worry about tearing things up if I get myself into trouble and lock the front to get out? Also, what kind of air source should I use with it? I want something that could be hidden, maybe in the engine compartment. I think it would be a nice feature to be able to air up my tires also. I don't have the need to run any air tools though. I really don't care for getting bottles filled, but if something like a Powertank would be much better for my usage I could be swayed.

ARBSeth · **Posted:** Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:23 pm

Crash locking is what happens when you engage the locker with a tire spinning. Won't hurt the locker in a KJ, but it may break something else like a CV shaft.
In a snow situation, it's not that big of a problem. The trick with snow is to keep moving. If you think you may get stuck, lock it in first and keep the tires moving. Don't LET THEM SLIP or it's all over. Using the locker will help out if you do go in a ditch etc, though. Just don't spin a tire and flip on the locker at the same time. Not good stuff.

As for Air, use the new CKMA12. Has a great CFM/Duty cyle and will handle all your KJ tire airing needs without issue. Don't forget to order the Pump Up kit.
It's not big, should be able to shoe horn it under the hood, or mount it in the rear of the rig. The wiring harness is plenty big enough to do that, too.

Have fun and enjoy!

KY Liberty · **Joined:** Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:46 pm **Posts:** 1195

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like the right plan.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:02 pm

KY Liberty wrote:

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like the right plan.

Yep, good choice because in 2002 you never dreamed you would have a lift. And now look at you………you’re installing ARB’s. So I think this is a wise choice because you just never know when you might want to go up to the next level………………….

Front ARB or TT?

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