I only started reading this forum after I bought my KK... Initally, I was canvassing the KK section looking for information about the vehicle - however now I find myself reading the other sections more frequently, mostly for one reason...

Seems there's a lot of reading to be done over there about how people are upset that their jeep has a rattle... Or something creaks... the defogger doesn't work fast enough... the gaping hole in the roof leaks a little... the one that prompted this thread was someone asking if they could get someone to come change their flat tire for them. Everyone seems to have the automatic transmission/leather interior and they're pissed off that the ride isn't smooth enough. Dunno - maybe I haven't read enough of the other sections to recognise that this is true of most jeep owners today... All I know is that when I had a flat on my comanche (the one with 300K miles and the detachable steering wheel) there sure as hell wasn't anyone coming to change my tire for me. I drove that truck into the ground and the KK (with 18K miles on it so far) shows all the signs of living up to that standard (both the 300K miles, and the detachable steering wheel )

What do you guys think?

People are getting lazy.. Its the state of the entire country. Everyone thinks they should be getting pampered day and night, and nobody wants to work for anything.

I have never owned an automatic, and I have never had leather seating.. And I will never own a KK because they are no longer available with stickshifts.

Its like how TPMS is now mandated by law on all new vehicles because people are too freakin lazy to check their own tires. Traction control because people are too lazy to learn to drive (and ABS for the same reason).


Im going to stop now before I get carried away..

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A Jeep and a couple Fords.


I would wreck Kate Hudson.

I love the TPMS. Since Im OCD with my tire pressures it lets me see them all the time! Only thing I hate is when they dont all match but thats hard to do depending on the location of the sun, etc.

Haha, cant believe someone wanted their tire changed.. Guess the KK's are marketed towards a different type of crowd..

And hey, I like my HEATED leather seats.

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LOST KJ'S
Where are you going???
Current Jeep: 2004 Jeep Liberty
-Atlantic Blue
-Air Ride Rear Suspension ; OME/Rustys Lift ; Powertrax Locker ; Moog Lower Ball-Joints ; 245/70/16 Yokohama Geolander A/T-S's on MOABS ; Flowmaster 50 SUV
Lost #007082
http://www.cardomain.com/id/jeepjeepster

XJ owners have been saying the same thing about KJ owners for years.

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http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic

People are getting lazy - however there is nothing lazy about driving an automatic trans automobile - or leather seats for that matter. Matter of fact, I've heard many Wrangler owner's admit they wish they too had the same comfort many of us Liberty owner's have.

And unless one has a disability preventing them from changing a flat tire, yeah, that is extremely lazy.

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Illegitima Non carborundom!

NO SLUSH BOX OR LEATHER FOR THIS NUT JOB

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2008 KK Liberty Sport NIGHT OPS EDITION + GILLS
OEM & Custom Skids - Factory Tow Package - Rock Lizard Skink Super Sliders
Prototype JBA 4 Inch Lift - JBA UCA's - Flowmaster Super 44 OR - Whacked Resonator
Jet Stage 2 - RL Gecko Basket Rack - Custom Winch Bumper - Recon 10.5K Winch

It's not that the Leather is nice. It's not that the heated seats keep my rear end warm when the temperature is below freezing. And it's definently not that styrofoam squeak I always hear... My KJ is

The most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.
The most versitle vehicle I've ever owned.
The most capable vehicle I've ever owned.


Long Live the Liberty!

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02 Liberty Limited
Silver Outside & Taupe Inside
Heated Seats, Sunroof & Infinity speakers
USA Spec I-Pod adaptor, Mopar Sub, Garmin GPS
Tow Package, Select-Trac
Rock Rails, Tow Hooks

No KK for me,ESP/ABS is the devil ,and so is TPMS though Chrylser TPMS systems are not as bad as GM's .

Though my KJ has not been to diiferent from my 1st vehicle,a '79 Grand Wagoneer...............

No power seats
No leather
No ABS
NO ESP
Truck tranny
Plenty of creaks/groans/and many rattles--just turn up my stereo till I can't hear them anymore
No 4wd
Stiff ride

and the biggest is.........................


Putting what seems like a never ending supply of cash into it till it is built the way I want it .

You have to remember, Jeep/Chrysler did a stupid thing by putting the tire down below on the KK. You will have to drag it out from under there and that is not easy for a lot of people. With the spare on the back, you remove lugs, grab tire pull off and drop it (while under control - don't want it rolling out into traffic or down into the muddy wet tall grass ditch).

My Reny has leather seats. The first vehicle I have ever had with leather. I like it! I wheel my Reny in mud and water. Only problem with leather seats is when you have reently cleaned and treate them and you are in Moab doing Hell's Revenge and you are doing those near vertical drops. You SLIDE forward rather easily even with the seatbelt on.

I had the TPMS on my wheels until I upgrade wheels to the Moabs and sold my Reny wheels with the sensors on them. I miss it. I was anal about keeping the pressure equal and keeping track of them using it.

Newer KJ's and apparently the KK has been brutally cheapened by Chrysler. Look at the window regulators as a great example.

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New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

I have children and dogs. I would love to have leather! Cleanup is so much easier. And I also prefer my Slushbox, thank you. I've prefer a stick on the street, but on the trail, I just like not having to juggle 3 pedals with 2 feet when I'm off camber on a 40 degree hill. TPMS doesn't bother me at all, I keep my tires inflated and checked manually anyway, so I never have to listen to it whine. ESP does suck though...

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- Mike
'12 JK

Jeep Tech Files

you just had to poke at that... as said before



so far no problems with windows (knock on wood) and my only witch is that it has esp and a 112 mph limiter

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2008 KK Liberty Sport NIGHT OPS EDITION + GILLS
OEM & Custom Skids - Factory Tow Package - Rock Lizard Skink Super Sliders
Prototype JBA 4 Inch Lift - JBA UCA's - Flowmaster Super 44 OR - Whacked Resonator
Jet Stage 2 - RL Gecko Basket Rack - Custom Winch Bumper - Recon 10.5K Winch

trying hard to stay out of this discussion but if you read through the threads for KJ and KKs there is a more on the chrome/ leather/what all my radio/stereo does etc etc. on the KK side
But then it maybe that most buying them are younger crowd, who have grown up with that type of thing which is cool by me.
For me I don't like any of the electronic stuff that takes me away from driving, I want to control not a computer, leather is nice, butt warmers are Ok but have never seen a need for them So no ESP/PMS/ABS, or any of that stuff Oh for using the radio, it hasn't been on since the wife left, I like listening to the tires and the engine and thinking happy thoughts

So just enjoy what you have I guess, but if you see me in a KK , please do an intervention quick

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

hahahahha..

perhaps all the talk over at the KK places is because they are all still pretty new. keep in mind KJ's have been out for 7 years and are now cheap enough for people to buy.. and build... and abuse offroad. KK's are still new and expensive.. maybe in 6 years or so you'll see more aftermarket support and more KK's wheeled. probably not but maybe

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2006 Renegade. Completely stock.

Not really that they are newer I don't think, remember quite a few people on here have been wheeling their KJs since brand new almost, thats what got LOST started really, mine was out in the field with 121 miles on it hooked onto a log dragging it in for fire wood, stock tires were terrible at that by the way

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

i've admit.. mine was on it's first jamboree after a fresh franky lift at 8000 miles

it was just an idea... haha

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2006 Renegade. Completely stock.

Who knows why the reason but as long as they enjoy and spread the good news of the Jeepin and LOST worlds thats all that matters

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

Hahaha....

My KJ was off road when I test drove it off the dealers lot. It was in 4hi, part time - full time - and 4lo first gear. It had 2 miles on it when I started the test drive, and 47 when I was done with the test drive and bought it......yea, I am anal and don't buy anything without a proper test drive....even a new Jeep......haha

It has A/T - so I'm shiftless when I want to be...... and 4lo first gear or anywhere in between when I want to be.

It has heated leather seats - nice - never had that before. Keeps my flaming hemmroid warm when it's cold.

Power everything. - good in a way, but I do like manual stuff for it's simplicity. For example, I miss Warn manual locking hubs so that probably makes me wierd.

I know it's a Jeep and not a car....... It does not even resemble a car....... It is shaped like a brick and is too high off the ground even without a lift to even remotely resemble a car........ It will never drive like a car because it is a Jeep....... It will go anywhere I point it (well almost - I had it stuck a couple of times and had to be pulled out) .....People that call their Jeep a car just Do Not Understand.

I don't complain about an occasional sway bar bushing moan/squeek when it is real cold out......I moan and squeek when it is way to cold out too....

I like the 4wd shift lever way better than pushing a button......saves undue wear and tear on my longest finger.

I like my Jeep......and I am not complaining.......because I love my Jeep...

I do my own maintenance because I do not like other people working on my Jeep.......

And I can change my own tire too......I have about 300 pounds of stuff in the back of my Jeep, including a compressor and power lug nut gun and can change a tire faster than I can type all this crap.

There is waaaaay too much more to list, and so I am done.

AND YES I DO NEED JEEP THERAPY BECAUSE I AM SICK.

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05 BLACK KJ - 42RLE & NP242
Skids, Hooks, Bent Rock Rail, Lifted, A/T's, etc.
NY and PA and Florida ONF Special Custom Organic Trail Rash

I hear ya on that one, the older I get the more I moan about the cold!!

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Blood Clot Red 03 Punisher Edition
245/75-16 Duratracs, Soft 8's, Ironman/clevis Lift, Monroe Sensa-trac rear shocks, JBA 3.5, GTP Hood Louvers, Roof Basket & Light bar, Mudd's Garage Rear Bumper
custom made items: cross rails, grill inserts, cargo shelf, lightbar, pin stripping & rock rails.
L.O.S.T. #DW090501

There were no Grand Wagoneers in '79: That did not start until jeep made a "baby" XJ Wagoneer in '85, making the need for the "Grand" term when referring to the real version. Also, I am confused over the "no 4wd." All '79 Wagoneers were 4wd?

My KJ:
No ABS or other electronic nannies
No Leather
No slushbox
the NSG370 IS used in the Ram, but is hardly the tranny my T18 is...
No power seats
And if I read on more " oh my gosh my tires make noise on the road' thread I may scream at my monitor.

To each is own on trannies: I want the control, options, and reliability of a manual when playing. No auto KJ or KK is going to touch the crawl ratio ( and control that comes with it) of a good stick. Yes, it may take a bit more concentration, but if I wanted a sunday drive I'd be on the interstate.

There really must be a "gap" of some sort going on, but I do not know if it is age. I have been trashed in the past for talking about the "jeep brotherhood" back when driving a jeep meant you were in something unique & were probably sacrificing something to be in it. I could not comprehend complaining about a squeek in my CJ2a, C101, C104, CJ5, '79 Chero or even the new one, the '80. I view the Kj as a jeep, and treat it no differently. I realize I am in a jeep and to have the abiltiy a CR-V lacks, I am giving up somethings elsewhere. Jeep's sales success with watered down vehicles, starting with the XJ, has meant a growing stream of people more concerned with widgets, amps, and fake fender vents than jeeps.

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LOST # 633
'05 KJ 3.7L/6spd/241 245/75/16 MT's
'88 MJ 4.0L/AW4/231 SWB HPD30 & trac-loc D44 w/3.73's
A dirty Jeep is a happy Jeep

Seriously? The 'window regulators' form the crux of this argument? Not sure what the issue is but I am sure I'd rather have a moving jeep with stuck windows than a stuck lexus with moving windows...