Chrysler Shutting Down

tommudd · **Posted:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:42 am

The real funny part is that if the unions go and the auto makers close the ones yelling "BOO HOO let them fold will not have a job either, as there will be a huge trickle down effect that this country has not seen for years, Mc Donalds will not even be hiring, and I am not a union fan, just a realist :wink:

Prospect62 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:42 pm

That's not "real funny" at all, that's very unfortunate for those poor people in the big, scary "trickle effect". I, however, will always have my job, and my modest compensation for doing it.

I have nothing against unions or the quality of American automobiles. I will always buy an American vehicle and I had no intention of being disrespectful or hurting anyones feelings. I can see now that many members of this website are union workers and with the situation being what it is, are very uptight right now. Completely understandable.

Here's a quote from an AP article:

"But GM, which negotiated the four-year deal that serves as a template for UAW deals with Chrysler and Ford, says its total hourly labor costs dropped 6 percent this year from pre-contract levels, from $73.26 in 2006 to around $69 per hour. The new cost includes laborers' wages of $29.78 per hour, plus benefits, pensions and the cost of providing health care to more than 432,000 GM retirees, GM spokesman Tony Sapienza said"

Taking this into account, I think the UAW has all but crippled the American automobile industry. This decline, while gradual, had dipped to a level where the first major financial crisis was going to bring it crashing through the floor...and it looks like that's exactly where we are. Chapter 11 might bring the UAW to the table to work out a more realistic way ahead, but the bailout is only going to result in a full-speed ahead approach to a fundamentally flawed status quo.

The average entry level UAW assembler makes more than I do with almost 10 years of experience in my field (public safety), so don't preach to me about keeping up with the cost of living. I will never make as much as $64,000 a year...but to the UAW this is barely middle class? Get real. The average wage of UAW workers and the costs of healthcare, retirement, etc. has forced the American auto industry to ask rediculous prices for mediocre vehicles in an incresingly competitive market. What happens when people stop buying these overpriced, mediocre vehicles? Turn on CNN.

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:35 pm

People complain about what others make, I worked for years as a mechanic back when if you made 10 bucks an hour that was great no flat rate then, went into retail management ( Goodyear/ Firestone and other shops) made base plus bonus, not enough or consistant enough, plus hated charging people for stuff that they did not need, drove truck for a few years and made good money 70,000 to 75,000 a year but never at home, so home life suffered, back to college to finish my degree and then into upper management level positions like Executive Director of community development agencies and into the 70,000 + range but put up with political B.S. all the time, now work for a state agency ( 5 years now) where I make a decent wage and yes as much as an auto worker

what I am saying if your chosen field does not provide you with what it takes to live I would change what I do. Auto workers are not the only people to make 55,000/65,000 a year, the unions did not make that middle class, society has made that a middle class wage.
I have a friend that works construction and makes 100,000 plus when he works a good year, another who does high end security and made 75,000 last year, teaching at a college level brings the same or more money so why is it that the auto industry is always the poster child for what we should not make??
Making a decent wage to support ones family is what we all try and do. If I could do what I really wanted to do and make the same money as I do now I would quit tomorrow but I can't so I will stay here.

CrossBones · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:01 pm

tommudd wrote:

People complain about what others make, I worked for years as a mechanic back when if you made 10 bucks an hour that was great no flat rate then, went into retail management ( Goodyear/ Firestone and other shops) made base plus bonus, not enough or consistant enough, plus hated charging people for stuff that they did not need, drove truck for a few years and made good money 70,000 to 75,000 a year but never at home, so home life suffered, back to college to finish my degree and then into upper management level positions like Executive Director of community development agencies and into the 70,000 + range but put up with political B.S. all the time, now work for a state agency ( 5 years now) where I make a decent wage and yes as much as an auto worker

what I am saying if your chosen field does not provide you with what it takes to live I would change what I do. Auto workers are not the only people to make 55,000/65,000 a year, the unions did not make that middle class, society has made that a middle class wage.
I have a friend that works construction and makes 100,000 plus when he works a good year, another who does high end security and made 75,000 last year, teaching at a college level brings the same or more money so why is it that the auto industry is always the poster child for what we should not make??
Making a decent wage to support ones family is what we all try and do.

Very well stated - Absolute truth.

as for me, I'm not going to become rich at my career but I love my job. I wouldn't trade for anything else. I look forward to work every day. And when I look forward to going home, I walk out of my place of employment knowing I did a good job and had fun today. Besides, my wife makes six figures so I am already rich. :wink:

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:38 pm

Very well stated - Absolute truth.

as for me, I'm not going to become rich at my career but I love my job. I wouldn't trade for anything else. I look forward to work every day. And when I look forward to going home, I walk out of my place of employment knowing I did a good job and had fun today. Besides, my wife makes six figures so I am already rich. :wink:

[/quote]

I do what I love to do as aside business and yes its great when your wife makes more! Not knowing what teaching at a University really paid, I had no idea of my wifes earning potential, love her even more now!!!! :lol:

kskj · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:26 pm

tommudd wrote:

People complain about what others make, I worked for years as a mechanic back when if you made 10 bucks an hour that was great no flat rate then, went into retail management ( Goodyear/ Firestone and other shops) made base plus bonus, not enough or consistant enough, plus hated charging people for stuff that they did not need, drove truck for a few years and made good money 70,000 to 75,000 a year but never at home, so home life suffered, back to college to finish my degree and then into upper management level positions like Executive Director of community development agencies and into the 70,000 + range but put up with political B.S. all the time, now work for a state agency ( 5 years now) where I make a decent wage and yes as much as an auto worker

what I am saying if your chosen field does not provide you with what it takes to live I would change what I do. Auto workers are not the only people to make 55,000/65,000 a year, the unions did not make that middle class, society has made that a middle class wage.
I have a friend that works construction and makes 100,000 plus when he works a good year, another who does high end security and made 75,000 last year, teaching at a college level brings the same or more money so why is it that the auto industry is always the poster child for what we should not make??
Making a decent wage to support ones family is what we all try and do. If I could do what I really wanted to do and make the same money as I do now I would quit tomorrow but I can't so I will stay here.

Thanks Tom,very well stated

chefdab · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:56 pm

Then I guess I'm in the wrong profession. I should get a job building cars at the local GM plant. I certainly don't make that much.

Guest · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:12 pm

ThunderbirdJunkie is wondering why people are complaining that others make more than them.

He also wonders if the high level execs at the Big 3 complain because basketball, baseball, and football players make more than they do, and they don't work as much.

Quite a conundrum, he believes.

Quote:

went into retail management ( Goodyear/ Firestone and other shops) made base plus bonus, not enough or consistant enough, plus hated charging people for stuff that they did not need

Times must have changed, because now people don't buy things they DO need.

"Sidewall? Can't you patch it? Oh I yearn for the days of rope plugs, plugs will fix anything" (K dude...they're illegal for a reason)
"My husband says that ball joints don't exist and you're trying to rip us off" (3 days later, it comes in on a rollback...)
"Oh, my boyfriend will do it" (two weeks later car comes in with pads installed backwards...now ya need rotors!)

All this being said...
(politically caustic comment removed)

*EDIT*
Forgot the on-topic reply!

If our gov't would tax the piss out of foreign automakers like they do in other countries, regardless of whether they're built here or not, it would level the playing field, and put some money in the gubment's pocket.

Why don't they do that? Seems kinda dumb not to do so. $35,000 for a Civic is good...and $50,000 for a Prius sounds about right, after "Nothing says "Green" like 1,200 pounds of lead-acid batteries in the trunk!" tax...

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:38 pm

ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:

ThunderbirdJunkie is wondering why people are complaining that others make more than them.

He also wonders if the high level execs at the Big 3 complain because basketball, baseball, and football players make more than they do, and they don't work as much.

Quite a conundrum, he believes.

Quote:

went into retail management ( Goodyear/ Firestone and other shops) made base plus bonus, not enough or consistant enough, plus hated charging people for stuff that they did not need

Times must have changed, because now people don't buy things they DO need.

"Sidewall? Can't you patch it? Oh I yearn for the days of rope plugs, plugs will fix anything" (K dude...they're illegal for a reason)
"My husband says that ball joints don't exist and you're trying to rip us off" (3 days later, it comes in on a rollback...)
"Oh, my boyfriend will do it" (two weeks later car comes in with pads installed backwards...now ya need rotors!)

All this being said...
(politically caustic comment removed)

*EDIT*
Forgot the on-topic reply!

If our gov't would tax the piss out of foreign automakers like they do in other countries, regardless of whether they're built here or not, it would level the playing field, and put some money in the gubment's pocket.

Why don't they do that? Seems kinda dumb not to do so. $35,000 for a Civic is good...and $50,000 for a Prius sounds about right, after "Nothing says "Green" like 1,200 pounds of lead-acid batteries in the trunk!" tax...

I should of taken more back out of my post :wink:

I agree completely though, people make a big deal out of what others make , heck I have had women want to date me until they knew I did not make 100,000 a year plus benefits.
And yes anything going to other countries are taxed to death and we sit here and say let it all in, give us your crappy stuff we will buy it.

Guest · **Posted:** Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:05 pm

See, that's what ThunderbirdJunkie likes about his generation's women.

They're very liberal in their outlook, and don't judge somebody by their net worth (Thank GOD because otherwise I'd be...nevermind)

Most of the girls i've dated in the past couple years have made 1.5x or more than I do

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:09 am

OK some interesting fun facts
The auto industry got slammed for flying to DC in corporate jets to request money
now recently the banking industry was given a ton of money with no strings attached if I remember correctly, so why is no one questioning them or what they make????
**16 banks received over 188 billion of our money
***So where did most of that money go?
***Average wage paid to each of the banks top executives who received the money was 2.6 million in salary and bonuses
*** Lioyd Blanfein President of Goldman Sach took home 54 million in compensation the other top 5 at the same company took home a total of 242 million
***Richard Fairbank CEO of Capitol One received 17 million in stock options this year alone
***John A. Thain CEO of Merrill Lynch even though they lost 7.8 BILLION this past year he was able to get 83 million in wages/ signing bonus and stock options
***Goldman Sachs even pays an average of 233,00 per year to lease cars and have drivers for all of their top executives

and then people complain that an auto worker makes too much? :wink:

I think some people see the world with tunnel vision

kskj · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:37 am

Tom, I would sure like to meet you someday we seem to think alike. :lol:

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:56 am

kskj wrote:

Tom, I would sure like to meet you someday we seem to think alike. :lol:

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:47 pm

tommudd wrote:

kskj wrote:

Tom, I would sure like to meet you someday we seem to think alike. :lol:

I'm trying to talk Tom into the LOST SAFARI. Then we could all have a meet and greet!

I even told Tom I'd buy him a cold one if he showed!

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:57 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

tommudd wrote:

kskj wrote:

Tom, I would sure like to meet you someday we seem to think alike. :lol:

I'm trying to talk Tom into the LOST SAFARI. Then we could all have a meet and greet!

I even told Tom I'd buy him a cold one if he showed!

Long ways to drive for "one cold one" :lol:

Prospect62 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:19 pm

tommudd wrote:

why is no one questioning them or what they make????

This thread is in an automotive-type forum and is titled "Chrysler shutting down". It's not about the banking industry.

It's not tunnel vision, it's the subject of this particular discussion. If someone starts a thread about the banking industry on a banking industry forum, I'll be glad to comment on that as well. And I'm not complaining about them making too much. Beleive me, if I could walk into a GM plant tomorrow and get a job putting seats in Colorado pickup trucks for $28 an hour plus benefits, plus retirement, etc etc, I probably would take it. I'm saying that the "we get what we want, even $28+ an hour to assemble parts" attitude of the UAW is what sank/is sinking the industry.

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:49 pm

Prospect62 wrote:

tommudd wrote:

why is no one questioning them or what they make????

This thread is in an automotive-type forum and is titled "Chrysler shutting down". It's not about the banking industry.

It's not tunnel vision, it's the subject of this particular discussion. If someone starts a thread about the banking industry on a banking industry forum, I'll be glad to comment on that as well. And I'm not complaining about them making too much. Beleive me, if I could walk into a GM plant tomorrow and get a job putting seats in Colorado pickup trucks for $28 an hour plus benefits, plus retirement, etc etc, I probably would take it. I'm saying that the "we get what we want, even $28+ an hour to assemble parts" attitude of the UAW is what sank/is sinking the industry.

But banking , the auto industry, building industry , insurance companies EVERYTHING is tied together, thats my point. Shut down one you shut down everything. You can not give billions to one and let the others fold.

OH well people going through tunnels only see the sides of the tunnel, they do not see what it took to build the tunnel or what it takes to maintain that tunnel.

dog_party · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:30 pm

This thread is a good read. I need some popcorn and rum and coke.

Just to stir things up a little bit more, I read this last week..."Chrysler's UAW employees will receive 95% of their hourly wages and benefits during the shutdown."

Burchie · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:37 pm

dog_party wrote:

I need some popcorn and rum and coke.

x2

chefdab · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:16 pm

tommudd wrote:

OK some interesting fun facts
The auto industry got slammed for flying to DC in corporate jets to request money
now recently the banking industry was given a ton of money with no strings attached if I remember correctly, so why is no one questioning them or what they make????
**16 banks received over 188 billion of our money
***So where did most of that money go?
***Average wage paid to each of the banks top executives who received the money was 2.6 million in salary and bonuses
*** Lioyd Blanfein President of Goldman Sach took home 54 million in compensation the other top 5 at the same company took home a total of 242 million
***Richard Fairbank CEO of Capitol One received 17 million in stock options this year alone
***John A. Thain CEO of Merrill Lynch even though they lost 7.8 BILLION this past year he was able to get 83 million in wages/ signing bonus and stock options
***Goldman Sachs even pays an average of 233,00 per year to lease cars and have drivers for all of their top executives

and then people complain that an auto worker makes too much? :wink:

I think some people see the world with tunnel vision

Ok, then I amend my comment to include getting a job as a bank executive (they really make too much). And don't get me started on pro athletes. But I'll settle for a job as an assembly line worker for a car company.
BTW This thread is meandering into off-topic territory.

Chrysler Shutting Down

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