What if ATF 4 was not used?

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:17 am

When I had my front diff installed a few months ago, I asked the transmission guy to change the tranny fluid while he was there. I was told later that this guy does not used ATF 4 but a regular fluid with additives. The guy who told me this also told me that I had better change the fluid in 10 K miles.

If the tranny was not filled with ATF-4, would it translate to higher trans temps?
Would the fluid break down over time and as it does will the trans temps increase?

I have been racking my brain trying to figure out why my Jeep overheats at highway speeds especially if the AC is on. After doing some research, I found that the tranny cooler and the AC condenser is all integrated and heat soak can be a problem.

I figure the trans operated hotter on the highway than when I am going 45 and if the cheesy fluid is causing even higher operating temps which makes the trans cooler hotter which soaks the AC condenser and the condenser is in front of the intercooler which is in front of the radiator.

Can someone confirm that my cheesy fluid theory could ultimately result my temp needle moving towards red when cruising on the highway from heat soak?

Thank you.

PS
I hot I have not used up all my question credits

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:23 am

That could be your problem, as per my understanding, ATF+4 doesn't allow as much slipping of the clutch packs as does dextron and fords crap...any way, if atf+4 were not used, you cluch packs in the trans could be slipping more than normal which would translate in to higher temps, but i don't know if that would affect the temp of the coolant that much, if you are that worried about it, just drop you pan and change it out, or have your system flushed

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:42 am

I felt that paragraph 4 outlined my concern. When the AC is on, it gets MUCH hotter. Florida is flat and it's been cool.

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:46 am

you might want to change the fluid then and make sure ATF+4 is used, if I eve take mine in to get worked on Im always watching them and making sure its done right

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:56 am

JL Rockies wrote:

I felt that paragraph 4 outlined my concern. When the AC is on, it gets MUCH hotter. Florida is flat and it's been cool.

it may be cool down there, but your ac is still removing heat from the interior of the jeep

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:55 am

This is all that I could find on the supposed differences between ATF+4 and Dex 3: All Par Article

Basically they just state that all Chrysler products need to use ATF+4

I question whether or not the transmission fluid could cause major overheating like what you experience.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:13 am

The fact that the dealer could find no fault with the cooling system, it only gets hot on the highway (never actually overheated), the Trans cooler and AC condenser are integrated (which are grouped with the intercooler and radiator) and it gets much hotter with the AC on all point to looking outside the cooling system.

I have only a few days left before the big drive to UT so I am desperate (still have to pack too).

I am going to take her on another test drive with the OD off. I think the tranny operates cooler with it off and I'd like to see if it runs hot.

It will let you guys know

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:40 pm

I drove around town until the KJ got up to operating temp (1/2) and took on a 15 min ride on the highway with the AC on ond the OD off. I was crusing @ 3K RPM @70 mph. The temp gauge went past 1/2 but not past 3/4. In past runs with the OD on along with the AC the temps gauge rockets towards the red zone like Chad Pennigton @ Giants Stadium.
Feeling confident in my assesment that the tranny has something to do with all of this, at the 3/4 mark of my highway loop I turned th OD on expecting the temp to start rising; but it did not. In fact, as I got closer to home the temp gauge slowly moved towards the 1/2 point again.

I think that my 8 mos in FL commuting to work only locally and hardly ever getting out on the highway clogged the soot trap and my jaunt down the road with the RPMs so high increased the EGT to a point that it creamated whatever was in the trap and blew it out.

Do you think that a clogged trap can contibute to engine temps?

I know soot has been known to have an advrese affect on the EGR valve of the CRD and I think the EGR impacts comubustion temps.

I am no mechanic but the mechanics have been no help to me so I am trying to figure this out on my own

Thank you!

1300ZUK · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:27 pm

ATF+4 has completely different friction modifiers than Dexron XIVIFDIDIDKS whatever they are up to.

So your trans is going to slip differently thus making it run at a different temperature (i'd assume higher). Really, not using ATF+4 is really asking for trouble.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:40 pm

I think the soot trap idea was on the right track because my KJ stays nice and cool on the highway now.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:49 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

I think the soot trap idea was on the right track because my KJ stays nice and cool on the highway now.

But I would highly advise replacing the DEXIII with ATF+4,I know it's not what you want to hear but if your going to be towing a heavy load here to CO,and I'm sure you are,I'd switch.Plus any extended warranty will be void if the tranny goes south with DEXIII in it.Go back to the place that did that error and make them put the correct fluid in or pay to have a dealership do it,don't take no for a answer and get the BBB and a dealership involved.

DEXIII is conventional oil
ATF+4 is full synthectic and will not be affected by the stress and heat from towing like DEXIII will

Now if they used DEXIV or DEXVI you'd be okay since both are full synthetic.

1300ZUK · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:57 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

JL Rockies wrote:

I think the soot trap idea was on the right track because my KJ stays nice and cool on the highway now.

But I would highly advise replacing the DEXIII with ATF+4,I know it's not what you want to hear but if your going to be towing a heavy load here to CO,and I'm sure you are,I'd switch.Plus any extended warranty will be void if the tranny goes south with DEXIII in it.Go back to the place that did that error and make them put the correct fluid in or pay to have a dealership do it,don't take no for a answer and get the BBB and a dealership involved.

DEXIII is conventional oil
ATF+4 is full synthectic and will not be affected by the stress and heat from towing like DEXIII will

Now if they used DEXIV or DEXVI you'd be okay since both are full synthetic.

actually no you wouldn't the friction modifiers in the fluid itself are different, full synthetic has very little to do with it.

There may be fluids out there that meet both DEXVI and ATF+4, but none that i know of yet.

It will also take a few changings to get all the DEX out of the trans, the Warranty has already been "voided" on it.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:00 am

1300ZUK wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

JL Rockies wrote:

I think the soot trap idea was on the right track because my KJ stays nice and cool on the highway now.

But I would highly advise replacing the DEXIII with ATF+4,I know it's not what you want to hear but if your going to be towing a heavy load here to CO,and I'm sure you are,I'd switch.Plus any extended warranty will be void if the tranny goes south with DEXIII in it.Go back to the place that did that error and make them put the correct fluid in or pay to have a dealership do it,don't take no for a answer and get the BBB and a dealership involved.

DEXIII is conventional oil
ATF+4 is full synthectic and will not be affected by the stress and heat from towing like DEXIII will

Now if they used DEXIV or DEXVI you'd be okay since both are full synthetic.

actually no you wouldn't the friction modifiers in the fluid itself are different, full synthetic has very little to do with it.

There may be fluids out there that meet both DEXVI and ATF+4, but none that i know of yet.

It will also take a few changings to get all the DEX out of the trans.

Yes I know the differences in the fluids but a full synthetic fluid will handle high heat that towing produces in a auto tranny better then a conventional fluid like DEXIII.

Supposedly the universal Amsoil ATF meets all those requirements and is full synthetic.

1300ZUK · **Posted:** Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:06 am

yes but the torque converter in the trans may not along with the fluid.

Chrysler Transmissions are a mysterious box that needs to be respected, I wouldn't recommend putting in anything other than ATF+4 in one of their newer transmissions.

http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:09 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

Supposedly the universal Amsoil ATF meets all those requirements and is full synthetic.

Troy is correct, the Amsoil ATF outperforms the ATF+4 in many tests both in the lab and out on the road.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:28 pm

I don't know if it's relevant, but I was 3/4 through a tank I added Sea Foam to. I wonder if that stuff help knock some junk loose?

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:43 pm

it could have cleaned some crap out of it, as it running cooler?

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:00 pm

Yes. I have made several trips without a problem.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:30 pm

Ahhhh.... The factory-fresh feeling of a newly flushed tranny. Now I am motivated for my cross county trip!

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 pm

No more overheating and a transmission filled with the proper lube?

Have a great trip!

What if ATF 4 was not used?

Who is online