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 Post subject: Temp gauges – engine & transmission
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:50 pm 
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I haven’t had any issues but I’m interested in finding a product to measure the engine and the transmission temperatures independently that will work with the 3.7L with the automatic (42RLE.)

The stock engine temp gauge in the dash must have a dummy switch on it that pretty much keeps it at 12 O’clock in the “normal” position regardless of the outside temperature or type of driving. Is it possible to replace the unit that actually takes that read out or can you replace the gauge? Or even better, is there a way to fix/correct it?

Regarding the transmission, it doesn’t have a drain plug some I’m not sure where you attach a thermometer to get an accurate readout at the transmission. Or can you tap in to the stock wiring that reads out the transmission temp that would cause the warning light to go on in the dash?

Any thoughts? If products exist can you point me in the right direction and if possible try to give me an idea on what the costs would be. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:19 pm 
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all very good questions

throw in a battery/alt meter and i'm game to do this mod too hehe

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:03 am 
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For trans sending unit:
http://secure.chassisshop.com/partdetail/2286/
Splice that into your trans lines and add gauge sending unit of your choice.

Not sure on engine temp but sure someone will know.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:23 pm 
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If you want to know the actual engine temp, volts, intake air temp, throttle position, etc, get a scan gauge 2. I cant drive my Jeep without it now. :)

Ive always wanted to know the trans temp so Im also interested in how to go about that. Guess cutting the tranny cooler line is the best way but I sure hate to cut that..

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:30 pm 
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throw a pic up of this fabled scan gauge 2 in the thread to fulfill the idea flow please?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:46 pm 
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I'm no expert, but I believe that the scan gauge, although will give a numerical value, will be no more accurate than the dash gauges since it gets it's readings from the same computer.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:00 pm 
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Yep the scanguage will only display what the PCM is seeing which can be wrong from a bad or lazy sensor.Good'ol mechanical gauges are the way to go.

Adding mechanical gauges to a electronic system is kinda a pain in the rear though since you will need to find alternative spots for sensors(which there may not be) or use T-fittings which can be fun to find and install in tight areas.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:22 pm 
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JeepJepster – can you let me know if the scan gauge you have shows a fluctuation of the engine temp? If it stays steady at a certain temp regardless of driving conditions then I would agree with TJKJ that it doesn’t work. However, I think the sending unit does read an actual temperature, I just think that the gauge that displays that read out will only allow it to do three functions. (1) – show the actual warm up temps. (2)- once the engine is warmed up show only one fixed position regardless of condition (12 O’clock position) even though the engine might fluctuate from say 130 – 175. (3) – a final stage that only lets the needle move when the engine has moved into the HOT range and at this point it seems like it’s already too late and you need to pull over.

I want to be able to see temperature fluctuate so I can adjust my driving before it becomes an issue or pull over and check for a leak before I’ve lost all of my engine coolant or engine oil etc. I think more and more companies are using this “dummy gauge” so people think their cars are in great condition and don’t worry about. Personally, I want to know what’s going on. I miss the accuracy of the Cherokee’s gauges and they had the oil pressure, engine temp, amps, and fuel.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:57 pm 
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Working on an aftermarket trany pan with temp sender.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 546#425546

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:39 pm 
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JeepinJarhead03 wrote:
throw a pic up of this fabled scan gauge 2 in the thread to fulfill the idea flow please?


http://www.scangauge.com/

Works pretty good. My engine stays around 173F in the winter while its warming up and the idiot gauge on the dash is at 12 o-clock. It is also at 12 o-clock when the engine is 220F. Also shows intake air temp, volts, speed(thats right, unlike the stock gauge), TPS values, codes, clears codes, keeps mpg thats closer to the actual values unlike the mpg that the Evic shows, etc.

I know the values of the tps where the tranny down shifts at certain speeds so I know just how much gas to make it do what I want. If I want to go up a hill without it down shifting I give it a certain amount of gas, if I know Im going to pass someone I can give it just enough gas to unlock the torque and stay in 4th or go ahead and down shift into 3rd. If I have cruise set I can see how much gas its giving it so Ill know if its going to un-needingly down shift when it doesnt need to..

I corrected the speed VIA GPS. It has an error calculation in it so I use it as a speed-o now. :)

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:30 pm 
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I'm impressed Jeepjeepster :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:34 pm 
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Jeepjeepster wrote:
JeepinJarhead03 wrote:
throw a pic up of this fabled scan gauge 2 in the thread to fulfill the idea flow please?


http://www.scangauge.com/

Works pretty good. My engine stays around 173F in the winter while its warming up and the idiot gauge on the dash is at 12 o-clock. It is also at 12 o-clock when the engine is 220F. Also shows intake air temp, volts, speed(thats right, unlike the stock gauge), TPS values, codes, clears codes, keeps mpg thats closer to the actual values unlike the mpg that the Evic shows, etc.
The KJ's OEM 195 degree t-stat doesn't start opening till 195 degrees and does not fully open till 218 degrees.The temp gauge in the cluster will register halfway when the engine temp is between 178 degrees-228-degrees.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:37 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
Jeepjeepster wrote:
JeepinJarhead03 wrote:
throw a pic up of this fabled scan gauge 2 in the thread to fulfill the idea flow please?


http://www.scangauge.com/

Works pretty good. My engine stays around 173F in the winter while its warming up and the idiot gauge on the dash is at 12 o-clock. It is also at 12 o-clock when the engine is 220F. Also shows intake air temp, volts, speed(thats right, unlike the stock gauge), TPS values, codes, clears codes, keeps mpg thats closer to the actual values unlike the mpg that the Evic shows, etc.
The KJ's OEM 195 degree t-stat doesn't start opening till 195 degrees and does not fully open till 218 degrees.The temp gauge in the cluster will register halfway when the engine temp is between 178 degrees-228-degrees.


Any idea what the temp is when the gauge hits 3/4??

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:42 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
The KJ's OEM 195 degree t-stat doesn't start opening till 195 degrees and does not fully open till 218 degrees.The temp gauge in the cluster will register halfway when the engine temp is between 178 degrees-228-degrees.


Whats the point of a gauge if its not going to move with a 30 degree change? Thats b/c its an idiot gauge for idiots that do not understand what it does. I want to know the exact temp of my engine, not a rough estimate. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:43 pm 
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JJsKJ wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
Jeepjeepster wrote:
JeepinJarhead03 wrote:
throw a pic up of this fabled scan gauge 2 in the thread to fulfill the idea flow please?


http://www.scangauge.com/

Works pretty good. My engine stays around 173F in the winter while its warming up and the idiot gauge on the dash is at 12 o-clock. It is also at 12 o-clock when the engine is 220F. Also shows intake air temp, volts, speed(thats right, unlike the stock gauge), TPS values, codes, clears codes, keeps mpg thats closer to the actual values unlike the mpg that the Evic shows, etc.
The KJ's OEM 195 degree t-stat doesn't start opening till 195 degrees and does not fully open till 218 degrees.The temp gauge in the cluster will register halfway when the engine temp is between 178 degrees-228-degrees.


Any idea what the temp is when the gauge hits 3/4??
Too hot :wink: .

At 3/4 mark you at about 260 degrees,at the "H" mark you are at 269 degrees+.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:46 pm 
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Jeepjeepster wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
The KJ's OEM 195 degree t-stat doesn't start opening till 195 degrees and does not fully open till 218 degrees.The temp gauge in the cluster will register halfway when the engine temp is between 178 degrees-228-degrees.


Whats the point of a gauge if its not going to move with a 30 degree change? Thats b/c its an idiot gauge for idiots that do not understand what it does. I want to know the exact temp of my engine, not a rough estimate. :)
Right from the FSM..............

Quote:
ENGINE TEMPERATURE
GAUGE
DESCRIPTION
An engine coolant temperature gauge is standard
equipment on all instrument clusters. The engine
coolant temperature gauge is located in the right
lower corner of the instrument cluster, to the right of
the speedometer. The engine coolant temperature
gauge consists of a movable gauge needle or pointer
controlled by the instrument cluster circuitry and a
fixed 90 degree scale on the cluster overlay that
reads left-to-right from “C” (or Cold) to “H” (or Hot)
for all engines. An International Control and Display
Symbol icon for “Engine Coolant Temperature” is
located on the cluster overlay, in the center of the
gauge directly above the hub of the gauge needle.
The engine coolant temperature gauge graphics are
dark blue and black against a beige field, except for a
single light blue graduation at the far left (Cold) end
of the gauge scale and a single red graduation at the
far right (Hot) end of the gauge scale, making them
clearly visible within the instrument cluster in daylight.
When illuminated from behind by the panel
lamps dimmer controlled cluster illumination lighting
with the exterior lamps turned On, the blue graphics
appear blue and the red graphics appear red. The
orange gauge needle is internally illuminated. Gauge
illumination is provided by replaceable incandescent
bulb and bulb holder units located on the instrument
cluster electronic circuit board. The engine coolant
temperature gauge is serviced as a unit with the
instrument cluster.
OPERATION
The engine coolant temperature gauge gives an
indication to the vehicle operator of the engine coolant
temperature. This gauge is controlled by the
instrument cluster circuit board based upon cluster
programming and electronic messages received by
the cluster from the Powertrain Control Module
(PCM) over the Programmable Communications
Interface (PCI) data bus. The engine coolant temperature
gauge is an air core magnetic unit that receives
battery current on the instrument cluster electronic
circuit board through the fused ignition switch output
(run-start) circuit whenever the ignition switch is
in the On or Start positions. The cluster is programmed
to move the gauge needle back to the low
end of the scale after the ignition switch is turned to
the Off position. The instrument cluster circuitry
controls the gauge needle position and provides the
following features:
† Engine Temperature Normal Message - Each
time the cluster receives a message from the PCM
indicating the engine coolant temperature is within
the normal operating range [up to about 124° C (255°
F) for gasoline engines, or about 110° C (230° F) for
diesel engines], the gauge needle is moved to the relative
temperature position of the gauge scale.
† Engine Temperature High Message - Each
time the cluster receives a message from the PCM
indicating the engine coolant temperature is high
[above about 127° C (260° F) for gasoline engines, or
112° C (233° F) for diesel engines], the gauge needle
is moved into the center of the red warning zone on
the gauge scale.
† Engine Temperature Critical Message -
Each time the cluster receives a message from the
PCM indicating the engine coolant temperature is
critical [above about 132° C (269° F) for gasoline
engines, or 115° C (239° F) for diesel engines], the
gauge needle is moved to the high end of the red
warning zone on the gauge scale.
† Actuator Test - Each time the cluster is put
through the actuator test, the gauge needle will be
swept to the gauge calibration points on the gauge
scale in sequence in order to confirm the functionality
of the gauge and the cluster control circuitry.
The PCM continually monitors the engine coolant
temperature sensor to determine the engine operating
temperature. The PCM then sends the proper
engine coolant temperature messages to the instrument
cluster. For further diagnosis of the engine coolant
temperature gauge or the instrument cluster
circuitry that controls the gauge, (Refer to 8 - ELECTRICAL/
INSTRUMENT CLUSTER - DIAGNOSIS
AND TESTING). If the instrument cluster moves the
engine coolant temperature gauge needle to indicate
a high or critical engine temperature, it may indicate
that the engine or the engine cooling system requires
service. For proper diagnosis of the engine coolant
temperature sensor, the PCM, the PCI data bus, or
the electronic message inputs to the instrument cluster
that control the engine coolant temperature
gauge, a DRBIIIt scan tool is required. Refer to the
appropriate diagnostic information.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:07 am 
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I feel a custom dash pod coming...... :?
stupid idiot lights and now idiot gauges... :x

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:25 pm 
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Thats ridiculous. So you have no idea whats going on until its 260F. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:45 pm 
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I was wondering why my temp guage always goes to the exact same point and never fluctuates...even with 102,000 miles.

Here I was thinking it was just a well engineered cooling system...now who knows where I'm at...great.

Hey also, anybody know how (where) to hook into for an oil pressure reading/guage? I'd really like one of those.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:20 pm 
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Prospect62 wrote:
I was wondering why my temp guage always goes to the exact same point and never fluctuates...even with 102,000 miles.

Here I was thinking it was just a well engineered cooling system...now who knows where I'm at...great.

Hey also, anybody know how (where) to hook into for an oil pressure reading/guage? I'd really like one of those.
The best place is to use a T-fitting at the oil pressure sensor that is right above the oil filter.


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