New A Arms coming on the market - Opinions?

Boiler · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:24 am

The derogatory sales pitch was pretty nasty I agree. On the other hand, lower price doesn't always mean lower quality. Manufacturing techniques, lower margins, labor costs, and quantities of scale account for a lot. I've seen plenty of expensive pieces of crap and inexpensive, high quality products.

I'm not saying either is good or bad, as I have no idea.

Inc · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:41 am

Diggerfreek wrote:

you know, I guess it is all at how you look at it. Lets set one thing straight, I don't condone the bashing of other products like they did.

If you look at the glass a s half full, at least they have made a attempt to make new products for the now defunct KJ. They are also in the process of making products for the KK. I think that this is great since the aftermarket for the KK sucks big ones. So far we have 2 full replacement lifts, 3 or so puck lifts, and I have a set of rock rails that I highly doubt will see public production with in the next 6 months. Now I know the KK is new and all, BUT IT SHOULDN'T TAKE THIS LONG TO MAKE STUFF. So far their is almost no aftermarket support from KJ supporters. I could go down the list of let down, but we will save that for another time.

now looking at it half empty... If you look at their track record, the product is probably crap and or the same as others. Now I know that many have tried their products and what not and many different opinions and views have come about, but in the end... to each his own....

I guess we won't know what they are all about in tell some one takes the plunge, which probably wont be long

Good points.

I think that because it is RRO and they have sucked in the customer service dept. that everyone automatically writes them off. They may bash other products or vendors but a lot of companies do. Look at all the major truck companies in the US, that is all they do is bash the other companies' trucks and there are loyal, die hards from each of the big 3 that will never say a bad thing about their brand but rip the other 2 to no end even though there are others that will directly contradict their opinions. I personally don't like that tact in the least but it isn't like they are the only company to take that route. There was member on this site that had issues with Amsoil and he voiced his opinion and while 99.99% of us disagreed with that guy, it just shows that not everyone is happy with the products that the majority of this site love to death. There are always 2 sides to product reviews. So for a group like ours to cast off a company that supports a vehicle we love, one of the extreme few, seems kind of counterproductive. I think we need all the help and options we can get otherwise we end up losing in the end because the options are down to 1 or 2 and while those 1 or 2 options may produce a good product, I personally don't like having few choices. In fact that is the reason most of the stuff on my jeep is either custom or originally for a TJ, because I saw functional item that worked well for a different jeep and made it work or mine or saw that stuff was overpriced and expensive as all get out and made my own. I had to take this route because KJ aftermarket guys are too slow, not diverse enough in product line or can't take the risk in producing a wide variety of goods. I saw a need and made something work, which is what I think RRO is doing with the new arms and hopefully the new KK stuff.

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:57 am

I to hope that the KK items are of better quality. Now I can understand why some companies have not ripped a KK apart yet, most of it is the economy. But for the few that have, the excuses of why they are so slow are really getting old. Most of the KK owners here are biting at their bits for new parts. Like I said, I won't name any one, but it has taken to long to make the few products that are out there. And of the few that are out there, some of them are either half arsed designed, half completed, or has been blown off.

So, Who is going to be the test monkey?

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:06 am

I still think sending product out without R&D and making the consumer the unwitting guinea pig is far worse. From what I have read on here over the years, thats SOP @ JBA.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:50 am

JL Rockies wrote:

I still think sending product out without R&D and making the consumer the unwitting guinea pig is far worse. From what I have read on here over the years, thats SOP @ JBA.

Marlin has made some unpopular mistakes, however he didn’t do it intentionally. During those times, he offered to repair, replace, or refund those customers. In the meantime, he maintains his personal integrity by taking care of his customers, building positive bridges with other KJ custom suppliers, and he doesn’t need to bash on other companies while doing so.

KJ kyle · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:40 am

Im going to need a set of control arms with my lift soon, right around the end of the month. should I be the test monkey, or just go with the tried and true bubble gum control arms?

tjkoen01 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:37 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

JL Rockies wrote:

I still think sending product out without R&D and making the consumer the unwitting guinea pig is far worse. From what I have read on here over the years, thats SOP @ JBA.

Marlin has made some unpopular mistakes, however he didn’t do it intentionally. During those times, he offered to repair, replace, or refund those customers. In the meantime, he maintains his personal integrity by taking care of his customers, building positive bridges with other KJ custom suppliers, and he doesn’t need to bash on other companies while doing so.

why are you knocking a guy that is trying to improve his product? the best testing comes from the field, and guess what, we are the field! the fact that he is listening to his customers is a good thing (that's a novel idea isn't it?!?). we'd be having a different discussion if Marlin stopped with Gen 2 arms and let RRO develop the current, apparent standard in aftermarket a-arms.

since he has admitted when there were problems and offered to correct them tells me he's a stand up guy and is deserving of my business.

i haven't personally delt with RRO, so i don't necessarily have any beef with them. i'd be interested to know of Marlin has any patents on his A-arms b/c RRO's look like an identical copy and don't think would stand up in court (i am no expert, just my opinion).

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:22 am

Quote:

i'd be interested to know of Marlin has any patents on his A-arms b/c RRO's look like an identical copy and don't think would stand up in court (i am no expert, just my opinion).

Not at all a direct copy. RRO uses different ball joints and replaceable bushings. In the aftermarket parts industry, just painting them a different color would probably be all he would need to do, even if everything else was exactly the same.

While I think RRO's known customer service issues and lame advertising practices are reason enough to Not deal w/ them, I will agree w/ INC and say that it IS good for the Libertys to have choices.

Bottom line - caveat emptor.

Jeep4me99 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:45 pm

Inc wrote:

Jeep4me99 wrote:

their products may not be terrible...but their customer service is. plain fact! If you get something from JBA that fubars you will get a full replacement or your money back. If you get something from RRO that doesn't fit or just plain sucks....well your stuck with a POS.

As INC said they may be a company out there that is making products for the KJ.....but why did it take them 2(?) years to come out with the a-arms after JBA? It took them too long to copy them! What else are they doing for the KJ? in the time it took RRO to put out an a-arm (witch they ripped) JBA has put out a 4", 6" lift for the KJ, a 4" lift for the KK as well as many other suspension/ component accessories. Who would you rather support? My answer is pretty fawkin clear.

So since RL is just now developing his SFA kit and his tortoise armor line, we should ignore them? Sometimes products aren't developed for vehicles immediately. Regardless of when it comes out it is nice to have more options. I have dealt with RRO personally when buying a locker, I didn't end up buying from them because they gave me a run around and the hassle wasn't at all worth it. Even so, more parts for the KJ community is a good thing. I don't plan on buying anything from RRO, but I'm not planning on buying anything from JBA or RL either, but that doesn't mean I could care less if they stop building products for the KJ. More options means the customers wins, even if it just means a price reduction in competition.

But RL has been making sliders, developing bumpers roof rails/racks for quite a while for us. He has also been working with JBA to develop and test great products that won't fall apart on the trail or highway instead of bashing what other companies. Bubble gum colors??? come on really??? are they still in kindegarten? I'm not taking it this way, but some people like the red color on the a-arms...so really RRO could be bashing some potential customers taste in accesories and color options. Not very smart.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:41 pm

tjkoen01 wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

JL Rockies wrote:

I still think sending product out without R&D and making the consumer the unwitting guinea pig is far worse. From what I have read on here over the years, thats SOP @ JBA.

Marlin has made some unpopular mistakes, however he didn’t do it intentionally. During those times, he offered to repair, replace, or refund those customers. In the meantime, he maintains his personal integrity by taking care of his customers, building positive bridges with other KJ custom suppliers, and he doesn’t need to bash on other companies while doing so.

why are you knocking a guy that is trying to improve his product? the best testing comes from the field, and guess what, we are the field! the fact that he is listening to his customers is a good thing (that's a novel idea isn't it?!?). we'd be having a different discussion if Marlin stopped with Gen 2 arms and let RRO develop the current, apparent standard in aftermarket a-arms.

since he has admitted when there were problems and offered to correct them tells me he's a stand up guy and is deserving of my business.

i haven't personally delt with RRO, so i don't necessarily have any beef with them. i'd be interested to know of Marlin has any patents on his A-arms b/c RRO's look like an identical copy and don't think would stand up in court (i am no expert, just my opinion).

If I pay $4000 for a lift I don't want to find that it needs the CV's cut after it's installed. When I buy a quick disconnect, I don't want to find out it needs additional parts after it's installed. When I buy a pair of UCA's I don't want to install 3 more versions until I get the right one.

I come from a manufacturing background working for a very strong engineering firm. We never sent product out unless we went through nine ways to Sunday. If we wanted field testing, we would get a beta test going first. I find field testing through warranty unacceptable (as a consumer and a professional)!

That being said, I do not own products from either company nor to I plan to. I do not know anyone from either company so there is nothing personal. I do not agree with comparative advertising as a principle of business nor do I agree with charging the consumer for ill-researched products as a business principle either.

lil black liberty · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:00 pm

I hate to even get involved in all this mess but here it goes.. RRO needs better customer service right? Solution hire people who actually care about the wants and needs of the KJ..As digger pointed out the KJ is a dying breed and we should embrace the FACT at least they are making aftermarket parts for it still, EVENTHOUGH RRO made it and it looks like a copy of the UCA's IT'S STILL A NEW AFTERMARKET PART.. Now with that being said look at the K/N CAI's if you go on Ebay you will find CAI's on there for the KJ but hey..We all know about those CAI's the only one that truly works is Long Tall Texan's, but here's the thing. Instead of fighting over BS whether or not the company in this case (RRO) has a good customer service dept or yada, yada.. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE PART here guys not the CSD or whatever else. I mean hell how many companies make the exact same part for the exact same car? Plenty, you know why? Because A: The cost, some people can't afford the high booty cost of somethings and they look for discounts. B: Reliability, and we all know sometimes companies screw up, it happens (IT's LIFE), and lastly C: Reputation, if a part is reputable throughout the community and is embraced by the community ie: All J's Frankenlift, the UCA's the Hella Lights then don't you think other companies will see this success and want a piece of that pie too? It's simple business guys, they just want to make money off of people who don't know any better. This is why the Lost Jeep forums were created and Honestly I'm proud to be a member but we have to stick together and forget this arguing BS. We all have opinions of certain companies but the question asked was what do you think of the part. That's just my two cents.. :wink:

Inc · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:44 pm

Jeep4me99 wrote:

But RL has been making sliders, developing bumpers roof rails/racks for quite a while for us. He has also been working with JBA to develop and test great products that won't fall apart on the trail or highway instead of bashing what other companies. Bubble gum colors??? come on really??? are they still in kindegarten? I'm not taking it this way, but some people like the red color on the a-arms...so really RRO could be bashing some potential customers taste in accesories and color options. Not very smart.

RRO has had KJ products on the market for years now as well. The JBA UCAs have broken on people while wheeling and driving on the road and their disconnects work but aren't designed or engineered well at all. At one point RL had some people's money for over a year while they wait for their product and while he makes amazing products I'd be really pissed if I had to wait a year for anything. So it goes both ways, and RRO may suck at customer service but other companies have their faults as well.

Quicksilversurf917 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:29 pm

lil black liberty wrote:

I hate to even get involved in all this mess but here it goes.. RRO needs better customer service right? Solution hire people who actually care about the wants and needs of the KJ..As digger pointed out the KJ is a dying breed and we should embrace the FACT at least they are making aftermarket parts for it still, EVENTHOUGH RRO made it and it looks like a copy of the UCA's IT'S STILL A NEW AFTERMARKET PART.. Now with that being said look at the K/N CAI's if you go on Ebay you will find CAI's on there for the KJ but hey..We all know about those CAI's the only one that truly works is Long Tall Texan's, but here's the thing. Instead of fighting over BS whether or not the company in this case (RRO) has a good customer service dept or yada, yada.. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE PART here guys not the CSD or whatever else. I mean hell how many companies make the exact same part for the exact same car? Plenty, you know why? Because A: The cost, some people can't afford the high @$#% cost of somethings and they look for discounts. B: Reliability, and we all know sometimes companies screw up, it happens (IT's LIFE), and lastly C: Reputation, if a part is reputable throughout the community and is embraced by the community ie: All J's Frankenlift, the UCA's the Hella Lights then don't you think other companies will see this success and want a piece of that pie too? It's simple business guys, they just want to make money off of people who don't know any better. This is why the Lost Jeep forums were created and Honestly I'm proud to be a member but we have to stick together and forget this arguing BS. We all have opinions of certain companies but the question asked was what do you think of the part. That's just my two cents.. :wink:

Im gonna have to agree

.....I might be one of the test dummies and buy a set and try them out....if they fail and I crash burn and die then oh well you'll all know not to get them. We cant bash something untill someone has actually written or said something about the product. Noone knows how it withstands through a whole day of hard wheelin, BC NOONE HAS THEM YET!!! We need to be greatful that people are still making aftermarket parts for the KJ, and us, as the consumers, have the option for choosing what we want, because thats how it should be.

Jeep4me99 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:59 pm

Inc wrote:

Jeep4me99 wrote:

But RL has been making sliders, developing bumpers roof rails/racks for quite a while for us. He has also been working with JBA to develop and test great products that won't fall apart on the trail or highway instead of bashing what other companies. Bubble gum colors??? come on really??? are they still in kindegarten? I'm not taking it this way, but some people like the red color on the a-arms...so really RRO could be bashing some potential customers taste in accesories and color options. Not very smart.

RRO has had KJ products on the market for years now as well. The JBA UCAs have broken on people while wheeling and driving on the road and their disconnects work but aren't designed or engineered well at all. At one point RL had some people's money for over a year while they wait for their product and while he makes amazing products I'd be really pissed if I had to wait a year for anything. So it goes both ways, and RRO may suck at customer service but other companies have their faults as well.

Well man it looks like there isn't any company that does good for the KJ
JBA- broken a-arms on trails/highway (pretty sure that was only gen I arms)
RL - Failed to deliver on products after payment taken (he def explained the issues)
SC Rockstar (or whatever) - same issues as above
All-J - built frankelift, failed to truly address UBJ contact at full droop
Rustys - fitment issues on skids and sliders (don't provide hardware)...lifts sag, rear shocks don't fit properly. I think there was a customer service issue with them as well.
RRO- poor customer service - shady business practices
TrailReady - bumpers- fitment issues
ARB- Fitment issues on some (to frame and slots for running lights)

Prob the only good one out there is skidrow and all they makes is skidplates.

I heard trailrash has some kick booty customer service and a great product :wink:

But like others...the main thing about this thread is the product. And I think we've all seen on here about people looking for the cheapest break pads or rotors....so it pretty much comes down to what is cheapest, even if lives are at risk. They'll save the extra $100 by going to RRO and then rant on here about the poor service they may get. Its inevitable...i think we should start a pool and pick dates. $5 per day to play.

lil black liberty · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:38 pm

Sorry if I offended anyone but come on guys seriously hell anything and everything can fail at any given time.. there's always going to be imperfections ALWAYS... there's only one thing/man perfect and we all know what/who he/that is, but that's the way I felt.

oddball · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:08 pm

Okay after reading more here, I have questions to ask...

Why are some of you claiming there is no R&D at RRO when it clearly states they are testing these A-arms through the month of March? And while I am on that subject, RRO claims to test their prodcuts on their own KJ's in the field. Are there actual proven accounts of their products failing?

So who is Todd Cearfoss? The customer who owns a Liberty that RRO refers to? Is he a member here? Past or present?? If not, anyone here know him?

I've read and been forwarded to posts here regarding using OME parts to lift the KJ, RRO sells these parts, should I not buy them because of their past customer service issues with some people? For the record, there isn't a company in the world that hasn't has negative CS issues with some people. I also understand some companies are just aweful with CS too.

I have no dealings with any of the vendors mentioned here. I have however seen the loyalty to RL because he seems to be everyone's forum friend here. So it is obvious to me many of you are loyal RL customer's due to this fact. And that is fine as long as his products are quality and backed. Of course if he made garbage, he wouldn't have many friends here.

Which reminds me, to the ADMIN here (aside from; Inc ), I ran across a post somewhere regarding member's trash talking your vendor's. Does apply to all vendors who are making products for the beloved Liberty? I ask because you know as well as most everyone here Liberty owner's have been complaining for quite some time about lack of product, and since the LOST website / forum seems to be the front-runner in Jeep Liberty authority, I have to wonder what the official LOST stance is on this issue. Not trying to make trouble for anyone but let's be honest, I'll bet I'm not the only person here to wonder?

So correct me if I'm wrong, but both vendors here have had issues with their products, right? And according to RRO's website, they stand behind their products, life-time in the case of these a-arms. So am I to assume RRO's customer service would be the only possible negative issue for me or anyone else, or would some of you have me believe they're lying through false advertising by stating this?

Okay so it seems that someone will have to test these a-arms in the field and report back to us. This isn't going to happen overnight but these a-arms might be just what some of you need? Then again, they may be garbage. Time will tell.

Oh and KJ kyle, as for being a test monkey, I vote yes.

nosnorb_808 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:25 pm

Im thinking of being a test subject also.

oddball · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:37 pm

nosnorb_808 wrote:

Im thinking of being a test subject also.

Cool. If I had a lift I might too.

Oh and I just wanted to add, going with a proven product is smart, but who is to say there isn't another good product coming onto the market soon? I can and will respect anyone who will test these or anything else for the community. I look forward to the future poll; "Eat Crow" or "I Told You So".

nosnorb_808 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:49 pm

Someone has got to do it right? I figure better to have multiple test subjects with different lift setups etc... to offer different results.

lil black liberty · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:07 pm

Yeah someone can be the test subject but hey we are here to educate and to have fun..Let's stop all the arguing over crap like this in otherwords GROW UP

Anyways yes, someone be the test subject here and report back ASAP and let us know how they like the product...

New A Arms coming on the market - Opinions?

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