Saw my first rolled Liberty tonight

calamaridog · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:04 am

ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:

Apparently you have never driven a lifted KJ with no rear swaybar.

They are more stable that way than they are stock with a rear swaybar.

And again, more to the point...ThunderbirdJunkie never rolled his CJ5 (on pavement) which had no swaybars, so what say you to that?

Is it common to remove the rear sway bar after lifting the KJ? I'll be installing my lift in about 10 days and I'm wondering...

1996xj · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:27 am

I removed the rear sway bar on my KJ and Towstraps and only saw improvement in suspension flex and travel !! My KJ is the wife's daily driver and trust me she drive's like a NUT HOLE !! :shock:

She has put my XJ on two wheels before but it also has 8 inch lift and 33's and both sway bars removed and a long arm kit. The KJ seem's stable and feels like it did prior to removal of the rear sway bar. :wink:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:44 am

xturboexpress wrote:

chefdab wrote:

It had a Rusty's coil lift and MT/Rs with the rear swaybar removed.

There's your problem. =)

The rear swaybar is useless,since it it is not connected to the unibody it does nothing besides limit flex.It is not a swaybar at all in the rear app.Like I stated I drive my KJ like a Porsche 911,I'm lifted,running 265/75's,and have no rear swaybar for 5 years with no issues.Then again I know I'm driving a Jeep and I know the limits of my Jeep and my driving skill keeps all 4 wheels on the ground.

trailpixie · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:16 pm

someone above mentions that a rolled KJ had crummy stock tires...actually, tires that break-away and skid more easily are LESS likely to roll because they allow lateral motion. If the vehicle holds grip on the road it is more likely to get up on edge. Grippy tires aren't all good---reduced fuel economy, enhanced chance of rollover, decreased treadwear life. With that said, I definitely prefer a good, grippy set of tires.

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:29 pm

I'm aware that the KJ can roll once it's "tripped"

I suppose that this thread was created since it as the first time I've ever seen a KJ on it's roof. We have all seen the pictures of the KJ laying on the doors... that's kind-of normal isn't it? :twisted:

ShockT63 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:02 pm

trailpixie wrote:

someone above mentions that a rolled KJ had crummy stock tires...actually, tires that break-away and skid more easily are LESS likely to roll because they allow lateral motion.

I disagree. If your rear-end breaks loose you are more likely to roll from being "tripped". If you never break loose, and you drive like a normal human being, you won't roll.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:45 pm

Wow, many absolute theories on "roll-over causes".

You could be doing everything correctly and either another driver or unforseen obstacle (deer, child, ect) causes you to make an "avoidance" choice that leads to a roll-over.

You could be doing everything correctly and a tire goes flat during the process and leads to a roll-over.

You could have been doing everything correct but another vehicle hits you and puts you on your roof.

The point is, things happen...just be glad the roof structure is pretty darn good in the KJs.

As for the rear sway bar it would depend...it could affect the outcome both ways. Taking the rear sway bar off...makes the KJ much more neutral at speed...lessens the tendency to oversteer (tail happy). On the other hand it slows down the rear end from coming around a turn at slower speeds because of induced understeer. Depends on the "speed and attitude" of the KJ when the incident occurs.

All in All, the KJ is an SUV with a higher CG and really can't be driven like a sports car with a much lower CG (center of gravity). The KJs with ESP have a bit of technical help when it comes to controlling these events. It is just physics...

Guest · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:40 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

Wow, many absolute theories on "roll-over causes".

You could be doing everything correctly and either another driver or unforseen obstacle (deer, child, ect) causes you to make an "avoidance" choice that leads to a roll-over.

You could be doing everything correctly and a tire goes flat during the process and leads to a roll-over.

You could have been doing everything correct but another vehicle hits you and puts you on your roof.

Which leads us back to NEGLIGENCE on the part of the opposite or both parties.

A flat tire by itself WILL NOT cause a rollover. Unless you do not know how to react.

Vehicle rollovers, PERIOD, are decided by driver error. When was the last time that a vehicle just BOOP rolled over? ThunderbirdJunkie has put quite a few on their side doing stupid stuff. But...never while just driving.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:58 pm

just makes the situation more susceptible to over-corrections (Driver Errors)

I've done it! Over corrected twice, rim chewed the pavement real good and it flipped, when the tires hit the pavement after the first flip it bounced, literally

and chopped a telephone poll

guy behind me counted just over 5 side rotations without touching the pavement prior to hitting the telephone pole and doing a few cartwheels

1. i was going too fast
2. i braked too hard with a KNOWN malfunctioned rear ABS
3. passenger rear tire had a slow leak that i hadn't fixed and was probably 10psi low on air
4. instead of letting it clean out some mailboxes i over corrected it
5. instead of gassing it to get it straight i touched the brake again which meant game over cause it hooked

i learned alot real quick on that one when i was young

fix your tires, slow down when your junks got problems, defuse the abs if it's recalled/malfunctioned/jacked up

and best of all, if it's not a sports car it's ok to hit a few soft inanimate objects if you must

but out of all the contributing issues, i was the one that caused the result

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:00 am

ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

Wow, many absolute theories on "roll-over causes".

You could be doing everything correctly and either another driver or unforseen obstacle (deer, child, ect) causes you to make an "avoidance" choice that leads to a roll-over.

You could be doing everything correctly and a tire goes flat during the process and leads to a roll-over.

You could have been doing everything correct but another vehicle hits you and puts you on your roof.

Which leads us back to NEGLIGENCE on the part of the opposite or both parties.

A flat tire by itself WILL NOT cause a rollover. Unless you do not know how to react.

Vehicle rollovers, PERIOD, are decided by driver error. When was the last time that a vehicle just BOOP rolled over? ThunderbirdJunkie has put quite a few on their side doing stupid stuff. But...never while just driving.

Again, using absolutes, just like saying "never and always", is just plain silly...kind of like talking in the third person about yourself...

Get a front flat in the middle of a corner (you were doing the corner at a safe speed previous to the flat tire) and you might not be able to do anything about it...you will not have the control to react in a way to save yourself from the "Laws of Physics". Yes, many if not most of the time, roll-overs could have been avoided or are caused by driver's error...but not 100% of the time.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:07 am

I think a blowout would be pretty close to being 'tripped' in that circumstance

not really siding with anyone here, there's just one of those foggy lines that draws the difference between a flat and a blow out

oh, and God forbid your jeep turn into one of those hovercraft modes like the fella had a month or two ago on the highway where his front tire up and decided to flop down!

talking about a seat pincher!

zzack92 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:50 pm **Posts:** 371

ive rolled mine this earlier this year and there are some pics up, no one was hurt but i did have to replace the transmission, im not sure why we rolled really, i wasnt speeding truthfully, and im a 16 yo driver, but just took a turn and start sliding then just tipped

tomsjeep · **Posted:** Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:44 pm

There used to be a website (it's been gone for at least 6 years now) that had some info on SUV rollovers... in trying to address the rollover thing, they had some trained, state trooper drivers doing the testing.
P tires on heavy SUVs (a Libby really qualifies with its stock tires) can get into a fatal circumstance in a panic/avoidance maneuver. Most people's response is to swerve and then brake, which loads whichever front tire is in the lead on the swerve. The tire pops a bead, the vehicle goes into a tumble, and it's all over.
When I first got my TJ, my first concerns were heavier front bumper and better tires. Brake first and then swerve. Wish I'd made a digital print-out of the info on that website. Sorry, but I'm just working from memory (often faulty).

Guest · **Posted:** Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:32 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

Wow, many absolute theories on "roll-over causes".

You could be doing everything correctly and either another driver or unforseen obstacle (deer, child, ect) causes you to make an "avoidance" choice that leads to a roll-over.

You could be doing everything correctly and a tire goes flat during the process and leads to a roll-over.

You could have been doing everything correct but another vehicle hits you and puts you on your roof.

Which leads us back to NEGLIGENCE on the part of the opposite or both parties.

A flat tire by itself WILL NOT cause a rollover. Unless you do not know how to react.

Vehicle rollovers, PERIOD, are decided by driver error. When was the last time that a vehicle just BOOP rolled over? ThunderbirdJunkie has put quite a few on their side doing stupid stuff. But...never while just driving.

Again, using absolutes, just like saying "never and always", is just plain silly...kind of like talking in the third person about yourself...

Get a front flat in the middle of a corner (you were doing the corner at a safe speed previous to the flat tire) and you might not be able to do anything about it...you will not have the control to react in a way to save yourself from the "Laws of Physics". Yes, many if not most of the time, roll-overs could have been avoided or are caused by driver's error...but not 100% of the time.

Reread ThunderbirdJunkie's post.

He is using absolutes in absolute situations.

You will never roll a vehicle if nothing stupid happens, period.
You will never roll a KJ, mechanical (including tires) in a situation that a Ferrari F355 would not be rolled, unless you do something stupid.
You will never roll a Ferrari in a situation that a Formula 1 car would not roll...unless you do something stupid.

It boils down to negligence and/or mechanical failure. Pure and simple. There are too many "What ifs"

How is a tire suddenly going to become flat in a corner? Severe underinflation. Negligence. Perhaps you hit a piece of debris in the road? Negligence. Somebody rearends you while you're going around a corner? Negligence.

Don't try to argue with absolutes that are known to be so:)

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:55 pm

all i know.. is that this stuff happens all the time... and if you are driving a vehicle you are supposed to be in and assume control as well as responsibility for all sides of it at all times.. if it's rolled.. it was definitely due (atleast in some respect) to driver error.

the other thing i know is that if mine ever gets rolled (on the trail or road) it is getting a roll cage, army Olive Drap, and a solid front axle to go with it's newly found salvage title. :twisted:

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:00 pm

and railroad tie welded down the unibody :lol:

03CDKJ · **Posted:** Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:01 pm

Where is Fastrx aka Evan at?... He's the KING of Flipping the KJ over! :lol:

FastTRX · **Posted:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:05 pm

cdiekhans wrote:

Where is Fastrx aka Evan at?... He's the KING of Flipping the KJ over! :lol:

LOL...yea I've been known to do that....a couple times. :roll:

Sorry guys...I dont know everything and I dont have a degree in physics like you a few of you "experts" on here. :roll:

I've been reading this thread (have found it VERY interesting) but didn't have any ambition to post...

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:30 pm

easy solution for all of this....................

Drive it like you stole it

Then when you roll it you will know the limits of your vehicle and not push it that hard again :wink:

.

FastTRX · **Posted:** Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:39 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

easy solution for all of this....................

Drive it like you stole it

Then when you roll it you will know the limits of your vehicle and not push it that hard again :wink:

.

Couldn't have said it better Troy...

This is my first jeep and for a little grocery getter...its one tough little tank. I wouldn't trade it for anything...ill own it till it rusts to nothing. Many more jeeps to come for me...

Keep the rubber side down guys...

Saw my first rolled Liberty tonight

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