20/20 show claims the CRD only gets 11mpg

valkraider · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:16 pm

oldnavy wrote:

That is for WVO & VO and not biodiesel, unless you are running B50 to B100 when below about 10* to 28* F then that would be true, but with B2 to B30 you would have about the same range as regular #2D, WVO & VO has a problem below about 75* on average.

No, you misread my comment. I was talking about the fuel system being warmed up - Not to *use* biodiesel, but to *blend* biodiesel *in tank*. Meaning you start out with 10 gallons of petro diesel and you want to add 10 gallons of 100% biodiesel to make a B50 blend *in your tank*.

Biodiesel producers recommend that:

1. You start at 10 degrees above the gel point of the biodiesel for best blending. So try to do this no colder than about 45 degrees.

2. You make sure the vehicle is warmed up from driving. This warms the fuel system and the existing diesel in the tank to aid in blending.

3. You put regular diesel in the tank first. Then add biodiesel. The biodiesel is heaver and adding it on top of the regular diesel helps blend more thouroughly.

4. Drive around a good bit afterwords to facilitate "splash blending".

Once the fuel is blended, it will not separate and is good to much lower temperatures than straight biodiesel.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:40 pm

Humm I thought you were refering to VO & WVO, not Biodiesel because they get mixed up by people so often. My mistake.

As far as mixing the BioD with 2D never gave it much thought as I never mixed B100 or used it except from late May to late Aug, and then it was often diluted when traveling or inability to catch the attendent of a part-time attended pumping station to unlock the pump and pump the B100. I think the vast majority of us here do not have a access to anything more then B20 fuel. I currently have to drive 25 miles one way to get B2 or 60 miles one way for B10, unless I happen to be going that way to go shopping (90 miles to nearest small mall) and I do usually try to time it for a fuel run when possible.

TxAshurst · **Posted:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:03 pm

Off the lot, my CRD got 18 mpg. Over the first 2,000 miles it slowly increased. I now have about 5,000 miles on it and I'm getting 27-28 mpg in mixed traffic. The owner's manual says to goose it ocassionally, so I've been trying to follow their instructions :lol:

and it's kind of fun.

AFTER it is well broken in, I will drive slow and easy and see how well it does, but clearly CR is LOST out in nana-land - the place of the cerebrally deficient - home of the intelligently impaired - where a six-pack holds 1.4 cans. They do their thing, Jeepsters do theirs, and there is little common ground.

RedJeepCRD · **Posted:** Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:44 am

Well towing a 4200 lbs travel trailer in mixed city and two lane highway driving I averaged 16 to 18 mpg. I don't think I could get 11 mpg if I drove the CRD around with the foot on the floor all the time.

Wes

n3qik · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:12 am

Well, Popular Mechanics now has a CRD as one off their long term test cars. It was from PM that I first found out about the CRD, They gave a fair review then so I would expect the same this time.

gsbrockman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:51 pm

Drove the little CRD to Gatlinburg, TN for our anniversary this past weekend. The EGR problem is definitely cured and mileage was great. All the in-town driving from Exit 407 I-40 to Gatlinburg killed the mpg (still was showing no less than 20.3 on the overhead), but on the way back, I hammered the CRD (no less than 72--75 mph, some sustained 80+ mph spurts---it ate up the hills on I-40 & I-75 like a piece of cake) and was able to get 26.3 mpg hand calculated. I'm guessing it's broken in now and I possibly got a real good tank of diesel to boot. I had to "discipline" my wife as the first couple of times I got on it within 5 miles or so of the house the CRD smoked like my RAM 2500. I guess I'll be driving it more often to insure no cobwebs are accumulating.

Greg

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:06 pm

Drove the CRD the other day after the wife had been put-ruting around town and was able to soot a guy that was tailgating. :twisted:

Man I haven't done that in years. :lol:

I'm going over to get some B10 this afternoon or tomorrow and will have to de-soot the CRD, might be more fun if the wife doesn't come along. :wink:

AZdave · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:29 am

We got 20mpg on the first six gallons. We'll have to see over a more reasonable distance and time. I think Consumer Reports does a great job on camcorders and dryers, but they do go off on rants sometimes. Go look at their attack on Mustangs over the years. Sometimes they just don't understand how a product is used. They did a highly controlled analysis of binoculars a few years ago. They were reading newpapers at long range - indoors! Apparently they didn't know that you might be looking for Bambi while facing the glare of the early morning sun. This is a special use vehicle. It does not compare directly with RAV-4's and CR-V's. And the drivers probably don't either. This is a great site - just found it tonight. Dave

jinstall · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:18 am

Living in the land of TDi's I have to say that was the funniest thing I have read about a TDi test in the US. Wow what a bunch of idiots. IF a 2004 ML400CDi 4.0LV8 packed with people and stuff at 109-112mph can get 23.4 mpg over a 4 hours road trip, I am sure that KJ can get better results. I have driven a 2005 E270CDi across Germany and back on one tank with speeds reaching 149mph (traffic) and maybe an average of 120mph. That was from Wiesbaden to Grafenwoehr and back. The fact that they even tested it in NYC was a joke to begin with. TDi's are made for the open highways and autobahns not city driving. :roll:

LEDfoot · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:28 pm

This story seems more to be an attemt to lessen the negative journalism that the hybrit cars have been getting lately for not living up to their EPA numbers.

Basically it's stating that "yeah the hybrids are not as good as the EPA numbers but they are still really really good and much much better than this lying-sack-a-sht CRD jeep".

Honestly, noone would be bying these hybrids if it wasn't for the fact that the EPA testing is not accurate for these types of vehicles and happen to give them very favorable numbers. Honda and especially Toyota have been selling hybrids like crazy during the last few years and when the truth came out it seriously hurt their numbers. This smells like damage control to me. If you can buy jd power ratings why not CD?

wolcott · **Joined:** Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:16 pm **Posts:** 108

What may have happened was that they measured the fuel going to the CRD's engine, but they did not measure and subtract the fuel coming back from the injectors to the fuel tank. If they did this, they would come up with numbers around 11 MPG

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:53 pm

I have two neighbors that have Toyota's, one has a Prius and the other has a Corrolla. There was about $8000 difference in cost of the cars and the difference in MPG's has the Prius owner really PO'd, it seems the Corolla is averaging 33 mpg around town and the hybrid is doing 37 mpg. What's really a blast is both work for same employer, just different shift's. He wasn't happy that the Corolla driver explained to everyone at work that he would have to drive the car 10 or 15 years just to brake even with the cost of the Corrolla.

That was what happened to me when I bought my Dodge Magnum, a friend said I got a gas hog and should have bought a VW Passat Wagon TDI and be getting 42 mpg highway like he does. He wasn't happy when I explained that the $12,000 to $14,000 I saved in buying the Magnum would buy me 120,000 miles worth of gasoline at $2.50 a gallon, and if I would have bought the Passat TDI I would have to drive it for 20 years break even with the Magnum and at the age of 60 I didn't think that a realistic possibility.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

[quote="naturist"]I complained to the CEO of CR about it, got back a semi-form letter from "his personal assistant" to the effect they appreciated my concern, and stood by their numbers ....... that they carefully pulled the fuel line and dropped it into a measured volume of fuel in a smaller calibrated container, ran their official trip on the official course, both to and from to account for windage, slope, etc., did it several times to average the results, and at no point did any human have the opportunity to accidentally write down the wrong number, and they were sticking to their guns: 11 mpg it is, darn it!

Ask them how they accounted for the amount of fuel taken from their "calibrated" container, that went back into the CRD tank on the return line... The fuel goes from the tank, or any other source, to the pump, to the rail, to the injectors, then back on a fuel return line all the way back to the CRD onboard fuel tank. It circulates.

Consumer Reports isn't this stupid. If they are, they will shoot themselves in the other wounded foot soon enough. This looks to be a cheap shot to sell mags. Maybe with enough loss of credibility, they will have to merge with the National Enquirer to survive. They aren't far off in credibility now. Then they can run these articles next to the Blazing Headlines, "Tatoo of snake on mans arm bites him and he dies" This is the same rag that puffs hybrids on their best picks. I can think of a new slogan for them - "Hybrids - It really is your Grandpappy's car." (!920's had electric cars, charged with a gas engine running a generator). They didn't make it back then either.

BodhiBenz1987 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:58 pm

I have to wonder if Consumer Reports ever considered the fact that their test vehicle may have been a lemon. I have never spoken to or heard from any CRD owner who has gotten anything even remotely close to 11mpg. That includes towing situations. Something is wrong.

I am a professional sports writer, and I can tell you that if I printed something that blatantly incorrect, I would be slapped with some serious backlash. And maybe a libel suite.

I wish I had more time to explore this situation and call Consumer Reports out on this. That's what's killing me. Every writer who covers this issue belches out the same shallow story ... repeating what Consumer Reports found without questioning it. How can you just take that for gospel? Has no automotive/tech writer even thought that it might be worth looking at Consumer Reports' honesty/legitimacy?

All I can say is, if I knew who to talk to, I'd love to venture outside the sports market and write a piece for the tech section tearing CR a new one.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Try contacting DC public relations on their website. You might be able to offer to do a freelance piece for them, trying to find out what happened at CR. A little investigative journalism.

Xgecko · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:03 pm

CR lost all crediblity in my eyes years ago when they so blatently went after the Samurai

Personally I get around 22-24MPG city/hiway after 4500 miles and I have a cage on top creating lots of drag

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:16 pm

I only have 175 miles on mine and it still have a half of tank of fuel. So if I used 10 gallons that would be 17.5 aveage MPG. Oh the overhead computer already says that. Not broken in and already doing better, hmmm something fishie going on.

Oh yeah with winter fuel no less.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:54 pm

Our life time average is 20.2 mpg with about 85% city and 15% highway miles.

Dutchy · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:27 pm

I think there is a powerfull anti diesel lobby in the US led by the oil companies, diesel engines in cars will mean less fuel for them to sell and it will also mean that they have to invest a lot of money to supply cleaner diesel (like the diesel in Europe) in the near future.

Katmandu · **Posted:** Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:11 pm

Dutchy wrote:

I think there is a powerfull anti diesel lobby in the US led by the oil companies, diesel engines in cars will mean less fuel for them to sell and it will also mean that they have to invest a lot of money to supply cleaner diesel (like the diesel in Europe) in the near future.
Also the US car industry is not that happy with diesel engines for use in cars and suv's as it will mean that european car makers have a huge advantage on them.

VERY True. Read this article in PM.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automot ... 72831.html

20/20 show claims the CRD only gets 11mpg

Who is online