+1 MPG experiment, fold in the side mirrors

Ripple · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2009 9:16 am

Thanks for the few constructive replys. however, i did not expect such a overall negative response. i thought this forum was a little more open minded.

Either way, pending more significant data. I hope to show the marginal MPG sensitivity to frontal area of the mirrors, IE folding in vs not. the roof rack and antenna are also things i would like to look at too.

hypermiling is the way of the future, not with individuals though. OEMs will, and have, integrate some of those same techniques into normal operation, such as engine start/stop and more stream lined exteriors.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2009 10:06 am

They have already started that stunt by lowering the roof line. Being tall I have to tip my head way down so I can get it into the car. Since I drive rental cars a lot for my job, I get a lot of teast drives. When I got into the new Grand Cherokee I had to tip my head way down and when I drove it I could not see the stop lights!
As much as I like the Mercedes Diesel Engine in the GC having a Jeep that will get wrecked because I can not see stop lights is not acceptable.
Look for lower roof lines and less ground clearance.
What Jeep may try is to have suspension that will lower you down on smooth highways and raise you up for off road.
For now my mirrors will stay swung out, there are too many idiots on the road.

honey_don't · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2009 2:54 pm

Ripple wrote:

Thanks for the few constructive replys. however, i did not expect such a overall negative response. i thought this forum was a little more open minded.

Either way, pending more significant data. I hope to show the marginal MPG sensitivity to frontal area of the mirrors, IE folding in vs not. the roof rack and antenna are also things i would like to look at too.

hypermiling is the way of the future, not with individuals though. OEMs will, and have, integrate some of those same techniques into normal operation, such as engine start/stop and more stream lined exteriors.

I put some Yakima crossbars from another car on the CRD to see what effect they would have- just filled up and the tank MPG was .4 mpg less than our vehicle average. They are coming off now so it was just a one tank experiment which is not very conclusive. I was expecting a little more of a drop though.

This forum does seem noticeably more hostile in general than other vehicle forums I'm on, not sure why that is.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sat May 23, 2009 3:34 pm

Ripple wrote:

Thanks for the few constructive replys. however, i did not expect such a overall negative response. i thought this forum was a little more open minded.

Either way, pending more significant data. I hope to show the marginal MPG sensitivity to frontal area of the mirrors, IE folding in vs not. the roof rack and antenna are also things i would like to look at too.

hypermiling is the way of the future, not with individuals though. OEMs will, and have, integrate some of those same techniques into normal operation, such as engine start/stop and more stream lined exteriors.

I'm right there with ya Rip. I will only do it on long freeway drives though, and then only if my view out the sides and back windows are not blocked by suitcases and such. As much as I like the wide tires I have now, I think that my next set will be as tall and narrow as possible.

Don't worry about those who are not open minded. we all have opinions which may make sense to us but not to others. I catch a lot of flack about my choice of fuel sometimes, but I'm the one laughing past the gas station.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2009 10:37 am

warp2diesel wrote:

When I got into the new Grand Cherokee I had to tip my head way down and when I drove it I could not see the stop lights!

You must be taller than I am. I'm 6'5" and while my head is close to the roof (if I stretch I can easily bump my head on the head liner), I don't have an issue with it. The stop light thing is something that plagues me with just about every vehicle I drive. If I'm at the front of the line at a stop light, I typically end up looking left our right at the opposing light to see when it turns red, then I can duck down to see the my light turn green.

The other thing that irritates me about most cars is that the steering wheel obstructs part of the gauges and idiot lights.

I'm open minded, and not harping on anyone for trying to save a buck (or a tree LOL!

), but as someone who is safety minded, I realize it's far better to spend a few more bucks and have additional safety.

Being a motorcycle fanatic, I see guys removing their stock mirrors and replacing them with "bling bling" pretty looking, but ineffective mirrors. I see them extending the swingarms, changing the suspension geometry, and all manner of things that ruin the handling of the bike. It might look "cool", but it's not safe.

In the end, it's all about how much risk you are willing to accept. Some people think I'm crazy for riding a motorcycle, and of course, they are right. I'm absolutely crazy.

[/i]

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2009 11:00 am

chadhargis wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

When I got into the new Grand Cherokee I had to tip my head way down and when I drove it I could not see the stop lights!

You must be taller than I am. I'm 6'5" and while my head is close to the roof (if I stretch I can easily bump my head on the head liner), I don't have an issue with it. The stop light thing is something that plagues me with just about every vehicle I drive. If I'm at the front of the line at a stop light, I typically end up looking left our right at the opposing light to see when it turns red, then I can duck down to see the my light turn green.

The other thing that irritates me about most cars is that the steering wheel obstructs part of the gauges and idiot lights.

I'm open minded, and not harping on anyone for trying to save a buck (or a tree LOL!

), but as someone who is safety minded, I realize it's far better to spend a few more bucks and have additional safety.

Being a motorcycle fanatic, I see guys removing their stock mirrors and replacing them with "bling bling" pretty looking, but ineffective mirrors. I see them extending the swingarms, changing the suspension geometry, and all manner of things that ruin the handling of the bike. It might look "cool", but it's not safe.

In the end, it's all about how much risk you are willing to accept. Some people think I'm crazy for riding a motorcycle, and of course, they are right. I'm absolutely crazy.

[/i]

I hav a long torso and short legs. At 6' 1" I should have a 36" inseam, mine is 30", that is why my head is jacked up an extra 5" for my height. I can get in and out of my Liberty CRD and my wife's New Beetle TDI OK, but a lot of the other cars SUCK and give me a headache.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun May 24, 2009 11:03 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

Last time I checked the IRS were such stingy tight @$$e$ that they could turn a chunk of coal used as a suppository into a diamond in a matter of seconds.

I blew a mouthful of Hornsbys Hard Cider thru my nose on that one!

Perhaps that's the government's idea of "clean coal technology". :lol:

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue May 26, 2009 8:42 am

retmil46 wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

Last time I checked the IRS were such stingy tight @$$e$ that they could turn a chunk of coal used as a suppository into a diamond in a matter of seconds.

I blew a mouthful of Hornsbys Hard Cider thru my nose on that one!

Perhaps that's the government's idea of "clean coal technology". :lol:

"New Fisher-Tropsch Process Identified: Placing chunks of coal into all IRS agent's posteriors to create fuel-grade syngas. . . "

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Thu May 28, 2009 11:38 am

Cant say how much it helped, but I nearly got 38 MPG with my mirrors in and the antenna off!

VMKJCRD · **Posted:** Thu May 28, 2009 6:11 pm

Wouldnt it just be easier to follow behind a bigger SUV or a tractor trailer thats going a reasonable speed and let them help because of the libertys crappy aerodynamics?

Im surprised no one has tried removing their spare tire, jack, and seats.

(weight reduction)

Disclaimer: The poster will not be held responsible for anyone who gets break checked by trying to do this. :wink:

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Thu May 28, 2009 9:54 pm

ya want a quick cheep, legal, way to get +1

rub your jeep down with baby powder

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Fri May 29, 2009 12:35 am

JeepinJarhead03 wrote:

ya want a quick cheep, legal, way to get +1

rub your jeep down with baby powder

Don't post that. Someone will try it. :roll:

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri May 29, 2009 10:45 pm

CRD-Guy wrote:

Wouldnt it just be easier to follow behind a bigger SUV or a tractor trailer thats going a reasonable speed and let them help because of the libertys crappy aerodynamics?

Im surprised no one has tried removing their spare tire, jack, and seats.

(weight reduction)

Disclaimer: The poster will not be held responsible for anyone who gets break checked by trying to do this. :wink:

Correct. Lot of idiots out there don't know the difference between "following at a safe distance" depending on conditions, and "tailgating". Even at that, it means your full attention to driving, not talking on the cell phone, etc.

Even at the following distances recommended by law enforcement, you can still get a noticeable aerodynamic benefit and boost in fuel economy.

Remember what the warning signs on the back of most semis say - "If you can't see my side mirrors, I can't see YOU". And that would be the absolute MINIMUM distance under perfect daytime drivng conditions - any closer than that, and you're begging for trouble.

Timmaah! · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2009 10:50 am

Ripple wrote:

with all this hot weather i was having a particularly good tank of fuel, MPG wise, and for no particular reason i tried folding the side mirrors on my way home from work. While its not at all a decent sampling or representavie of any type of repeatable testing, the EVIC gave me +1mpg on my 33 mile @55mph trip home from work with 83F air. FYI, a marginal 1 MPG is about $85/year for my yearly milage and fuel cost.

i'm not saying folding in the side mirrors is legal, advisable or safe, but it could be an interesting experiment on strait empty roads. afterall, all they do is hang out there and push air out of the way.

Using this site: http://www.bgsoflex.com/auto.html

… I get around .2 MPG improvement in folding the mirrors @65mph and 85F, using very rough data. If you want to spend the time to get precise data you would get a better estimate.

I suspect that your improvement in mileage is due to warmer weather, fuel or other variables that are hard to isolate. In the past I logged my highest highway mileage when the temperature was above 100F - with the AC on.

Ripple · **Posted:** Sun May 31, 2009 8:27 pm

CRD Joe wrote:

Cant say how much it helped, but I nearly got 38 MPG with my mirrors in and the antenna off!

thats a good data point. any comment on this change Vs. your normal mpg? also 38 MPG is quite a bit, is that EVIC or milage corrected fill-to-fill data.

i just finished my second tank on "mirrors out" for the same fuel station/ weather, fill-to-fill milage corrected 30.8 and 29.8 MPG. will post results either way.

regardless, who would expect ~30MPG for a 5600lb 4x4 SUV. Chrysler may be in the sh*tcan now, but they did something right with the liberty CRD, that’s for darn sure....I’m glad I bought one new off the lot while I could, in the age of pre-electrification. which is to say my next car is a DETROIT-made, electric FORD festiva in 2011. Ford is the only brand worth buying anymore IMO.

chrispitude · **Posted:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:28 am

Our CRD weighed in at 4300lbs. Perhaps 5600lbs is the GVWR on the sticker?

Regardless, she's no lightweight.

My stripped regular cab 2005 Tundra (4x4, V8) has a curb weight of 4400lbs.

- Chris

SteveInMD · **Posted:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:38 pm

I'll bet you save more in fuel economy by slowing down 1 MPH than folding the mirrors in.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:10 pm

he was already going 60..... and that'll get you run over on I35.

FYI - I folded in my mirrors (in the parking lot) - and I think you could put the small motorcycle mirrors on top of the main mirror - so that when folded in - you would have a small mirror pointed backwards. that would kill the bigger aero drag - and still have something.

ribbon · **Posted:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:26 pm

they do allow camera's as side mirrors. would take you a little while to gain back your money though
example:
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1719/1030132il.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/412/1030063tx.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/913/1030788an.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/349/1030795oo.jpg

jeepkj02 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:59 am

ribbon wrote:

they do allow camera's as side mirrors. would take you a little while to gain back your money though
example:
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1719/1030132il.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/412/1030063tx.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/913/1030788an.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/349/1030795oo.jpg

Geesh, isn't that taking it a bit far!! It's like everyone would rather spend $2000 on a camera/AV system to gain 1/2 mpg. I just think that is stupid!! It's like every summer when gas goes up, everyone is worried about their mileage!

About the folding in your mirrors...
Its a Jeep, your worried about 1 mpg and risking a fatal accident!!

+1 MPG experiment, fold in the side mirrors

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