Accidentally - hadda go to the P.O. to ship a package, noticed idle was awful stinky and fumey - drove over normally, decided to nail it all the way back, blow out the soot, effort to stop the odors and fumes, thinking the soot trap was plugged - it was awe-inspiring - afterward, looked down to flip the Fun'n'Race Transgo switch back to normal, noticed EDGE Trail switch was in up, or #2, position, a definite no-no with INMOTION ST-II - whaddaride, there for a moment - wish I'dda had my trip\event recorder setup and monitoring the numbers - may try it again later, but I'm thinking that's entirely too much stress on the aluminum crank-cradle - not to mention the awful polution at idle , easily seen at every stop lite

Remove the probe, Trevor, run a piece of baling wire down in there till it touches bottom - bend the outside wire at that point, remove the wire, measure bend to end, insert your probe 1/2 that dimension, factoring any bolt-boss length

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

Test 1 - did not melt, was fun.

That's a good start.

_________________
2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Here ya go. http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/press/news ... spx?id=143 This thing looks pretty nifty.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

The speed of sound is not even a factor. small turbochargers routeinly double or tripple the speed of sound at the blade tips. Think speeds of 640 meters a second in some racing applications.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

nursecosmo: What about the saying, "General Rule" a common Engineering guide line don't you understand. Having a turbo that is expected to survive maybe 24 hours an a race VS one that is expected to last the life of the engine often close to or over 10,000 hours (some engines 40,000 plus hours) are two different situations.

If you don't like the General Rule of limiting your turbo speed to the Speed of Sound tip speed, Knock Your Self Out and have yours break the sound barrier every time you pull away from a dead stop light, you may find the sonic boom refreshing.

Any chance that the turbo chargers used on race cars are balanced better than the stock ones we use?
They blue print the rest of the Engine, don't they.

Structural Engineers as a "General Rule" do their calulations for I beams on a tensile strength of 36,000 PSI, even thought they know the strength of the I Beam is much more.
Let me tell why, I beams are made from mostly recycled steel including Junk from other countries like China where quality control is only as good as the contract and those enforcing the contract.

Another case of the "Guinness World Records" Vs "Common Everyday Events".

I like my Guinness cold and in a Mug, when it comes out of a can or mug I like to show someone who does not know what the widget is.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

Size matters.....................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

what you need is a bigger intercooler.
thats give you more power.

_________________
greatings martin

I like my guiness about 50 degrees... I've never had a widget in a mug only a bottle and a can...

And if a friend doesn't know what the widget is I explain it and tell them 'cause they didn't know what it was they are not worthy of drinking such a brew

_________________
Trevor

'05 Limited CRD Inferno Red Pearl Coat
Home made provent installed @ 35443, SEGR installed @ 35466, Fumoto valve @ 37500, trans and transfer case skid, In tank pump installed @ 43500, Suncoast TC & Transgo Shift Kit @ 44730, EGT, Boost, Trans temp gauges, Samco hoses, Rebuilt Trans w/ HD454RFE kit @ 56K, Inmotion Stage 2 @ 56K

The Garrett T-3 is probably one of the most common turbochargers on the planet. It is ratet at 100000 off the shelf for non-race applications. It will run all day at this RPM for years and years. It is commonly pushed to 130000 or more in race applications. It is the "GENERAL RULE". It's 3" wheel moves 9.42 inches with one revolution. 9.42 x 100000 = 942000 inches per minute. 942000/12 = 78500 feet traveled per minute. 78500 x 60 minutes = 4710000 feet per hour. 4710000/5280 (1 mile) = 892 MPH. Well past the speed of sound.

I understand "general rules" very well, thankyou very much. I do not know what our Garrett t-13 is rated at RPM-wise, but I am simply makeing the point that these things are far more robust than is commonly appreaciated.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Maybe www.detroitradiatorcorp.com will build you what you want. They custom make CAC's for just about any application. Never have approached them about one for the Jeep. And think about it... what they build they guarantee for a lot longer than the VM diesel will last. I believe if you supply the dimensions and volume you need, they can just about build anything you want. Just make sure you have a good bank balance.

_________________
*************************************
Environmentalist Green + Socialist Red = Facist Brown

2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.

One thing I do with my job is explain the Laws of Physics to Engineers and how they apply to an application I work with.
One item that has been overlooked in respect to the speed of sound restrictions is AIR SPEED not GROUND SPEED.
A 737 is limited to a 0.89Mach air speed but if there is a stout enough tail wind it can break the ground speed speed of sound but not the air speed speed of sound.
In a turbo application the exhaust is moving through the turbo and spins the turbine. As long as the Delta Velocity of the exhaust Vs. the turbine stays with in the speed of sound limitation, there is no issue. Now, if someone wants to get totally @!nal, they could calculate the increase of the speed of sound going through the compressed exhaust and compressed air flowing through the compressor side.
Now YA ALL know why you never get a sonic boom out of your turbo.
Yup the Laws of Physics still apply.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

I did once, followed shortly by a lack of power and oil smoke out the exhaust.

_________________
http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic

Yep...bigger and/or more efficient (less boost loss).

_________________
Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

A big one can leak just as well as a small one. We pressure test the intercoolers on our semi trucks occasionally. If they lose 3 or more PSI in 15 seconds, they get replaced. A minimum of 35 psi is applied for the test. Less boost loss can only be determined by a pressure test of the intercooler. Just putting a larger one in will not guarantee that you will not lose the same amount of pressure. Heck, some OEM intercoolers are showing up fresh from the factory with a loss of 3 psi or greater.

I keep procrastinating about getting the intercooler in my CRD tested. Need to get off my butt and do it.

For more info on why CAC testing is important, check this out:

http://www.duralite.net/english.html

_________________
*************************************
Environmentalist Green + Socialist Red = Facist Brown

2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.

General rule: the lower the Boost loss across the charge-air cooler, the greater the inefficiency - why? hot air is expanded, cool air is contracted - hot air in, cool air out = pressure loss - overall air-air cac outlet temps can be no lower than ambient temps, but should be lower than compressor outlet temps, which can be higher than 300*F under full Boost - so, while a larger more efficient cac can result in more power than a smaller inefficient cac, a large efficient cac can reduce power over a smaller equally-efficient cac - also, a plastic\aluminum exchanger must not be tested to same parameters as an all aluminum unit

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

OK...I guess I should have been a bit more "exact" in my wording.

Thermal Efficiency.

For intercooler thermal efficiency, the ratio is defined as:



T_in : intercooler inlet temperature (or post compressor temperature).
T_out : intercooler outlet temperature.
T_ambient : ambient temperature.

Basically you want an intercooler to get outlet temps back to ambient temps or 100% efficient. That is in a perfect world. You have to match the size/efficiency of the intercooler to the "whole system". If you do not increaase the size of the turbo, then you have to be careful not to oversize the intercooler. Building a "better" intercooler that is sized correctly and have a high efficiency % would help us have more and safer power...all to a point.

_________________
Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

This is getting silly. The turbo size is more then enough for this engine and application. But to add to the silly discussion throw in some fuild dynamics and lets talk about loses due to the piping and intake path. If we really want to go over board lets get down to how boundary layers effect air flow. I delt with large detroits, cummins, and cats for the better part of 25+ years. This VM engine is closest to a 50 series detroit. Both are 4 cylinder 4 stroke modern deisel engines. They also both have balance shaft assemblies in the oil sump and same brand of turbo. And remember hp = (rpm x torque)/5200. So displacement is king. This little engine is wet sleeved. Why not increase the displacement. That is the only real different between the 2.5 & 2.8 VM engines.

Keep it up. I really do enjoy reading the stuff on this forum.

Same concept, different verbiage, Darb - 'sides, who has emphatically proven this cac is ineffecient? Wanna improve it's efficiency, turn the ac off - additionally, ac off = less drag on the crank snout, increased power on the crank pto flange.................


syntax

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

I'll concede all the fluid dynamics. Not really that into my CRD to turn it into a science course on that level.

Regarding the pressure testing. It is common practice to "charge" the CAC with at much pressure as one could expect to see as max pressure from an operating system. 30 psi is not unrealistic for the CRD CAC test since it is typical on full acceleration to get well into the high 20's. One could go with 20 psi, and get a good measure. if it is loosing more than 3 psi in 15 seconds, it is probably loosing more at a higher pressure. The turbo is having to compensate for that loss and overwork. I would agree that the turbo we have on the CRD is adequate if the rest of the system is tight. Besides, it usually is far cheaper in the long run to replace a CAC than a turbo. And, if the CAC is leaking too much, then mpgs and power will decrease and be more costly in the long run in fuel and possibly having to replace a turbo sooner than would be normally required. And if the CAC is the leaking too much, the problem will be the same.

Irregardless.... all the fluid dynamics really get messed up if the darn CAC or the plumbing is leaking too much. Sometimes the KISS principle is not a bad idea. The pressure test is quick and cheap. I would think it would be the best place to start.

_________________
*************************************
Environmentalist Green + Socialist Red = Facist Brown

2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.

I agree with cowpie1. KISS is the best course. A big problem with the larger Charge Air Cooler units is not the CAC itself. The connecting hoses split or blow off. (I prefer this problem over damaging the CAC.) The CAC's of today hold up very well. The older models were not very reliable. Some of the older models were defective right off the self. I read somewhere in these forums about using solid piping between the turbo and the intake manifold. NOT a good ideal in the long run. The shock absorbed by these flexible hoses smooth out the rapid pressure changes that would most likely damage the seams of the CAC. This is also another reason I wouldn't increase the turbo size. Increasing the displacement is a better long term solution to increase performance. Reprogramming the ECM to close the egr valve sooner would give better acceleration without causing extra stress to intake components.

Just my thoughts.