Dripping with sarcasm!

I, for one, thank GDE for confirming my suspicions about the cat. Not legal, little to no improvement, worse for the environment... messing with it is definitely not worth the risk.

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, Limited
GDE Eco Tune, GDE TCM Tune, Bauer 203* Tstat, Amsoil EaA 201 Filter, Clean MAP, Samco CAC Hoses, Magnaflow Muffler #12226.
New Mopar Fuel Filter, K&N Filterminder, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
225/75R16 Hankook Dynapros

My take on GDEs original post:

1) Removing the Cat has not proven to be any advantage in ecomomy or power gains. It is there to do a job and is pretty good at it.

2) I read this section in a different way than some I guess. I saw it as "The KJ CRD, with all systems functioning as they should, should not require an extra fuel pump to push fuel thru the system. If all is not well, it (extra fuel pump) could bandage a problem that should be addressed.

This means that the push thru pumps might possibily be compensating for mechanical deficiencies resulting in improved driving from a faulty system.

3) The cooling system as currectly setup hurts fuel economy because of parasitic drag of the mechanical fan. Without towing or heavy loading a pull-thru fan "could" work but it would need to be big...flowing 5000cfm with ~800 watts...don't know of one.

4) Modifying the CCV might result in some pressure changes that increase the crankcase pressure resulting in possible problems.

***These blocks might have some structural problems under higher pressures...like cracks developing in certain areas.

Everybody is going to base their views on experiences with their CRD and expertise with Diesels in general. You also have to accept that each combination/engine/system will have it's own quirks that might stray from the norm. This is still a very informative thread...

Funny Reading...The First Technical Post in the CRD section:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=405

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Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

Im pretty sure that name calling isnt necessary in this thread!

I appreciate the GDE guys and their contribution to the site. They obviously have done their research with respect to CRD KJ's. Im probably going to pick up one of their computer flashes. Although Ill have a hard time parting with my Inmotion power, the added fuel economy will probably push me over the edge.

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2006 KJ CRD Ltd - Suncoast, GDE Eco, EGR Delete, After market T-Stat, Skid Row skids, V6 airbox, 2.5" Turbo back
2005 KJ CRD Sport-Suncoast, Transco, GDE Hot-GDE Trans, EGR Delete, Skid Row skids, V6 airbox, 2.5" Turbo back, After market S-Stat
1987 Suzuki LWB Samurai -diesel powered, custom 4 link coil suspension 38.5 SX Swampers

I agree with CDR Joe, and I read the GDE post in the same way as Darby. I've had no fuel pump problems so far, although my mileage is quite small (only about 20k).

I very much appreciate what GDE are doing, and I will also be buying their tune when I get back into work, and build up some cash:) I also look forward to seeing the results of their proposed work on the turbo and TC, and the Provent (which I am thinking of buying - again when I get back to work).

There are few to no companies doing much for the CRD KJ, and GDE are to be applauded for the work that they are doing. If your personal experience of KJ operation differs to theirs, then it is right, proper and indeed helpful to highlight that, and the company will no doubt find the reports of those experiences helpful - as will the rest of us. To come on line and basically flame them is unnecessary.

No two vehicles behave exactly the same straight off the production line, and those differences become more pronounced with differing driving styles, wear, mods etc.

(climbs down off soapbox - goes and gets breakfast)

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Light Khaki 2.8CRD: TJM alloy bumper; Skid Row &Asfir skids;ext. breathers; SAMCO hoses; Grabber At3 235/70/16; Fumoto; Euro TC; Odyssey PC1500;GDE FTEcotune; OME lift; lightforce driving lights;ARB diff cover;nylon fan+Hayden2905;ss vortex exhaust; Airflow snorkel; Frontrunner roofrack; rock rails

I want to respond to the lift pump question.

Before I put the cummins pump in the tank, I was having to bleed the fuel head of air at all times. I had starting problems, running problems, and embarrassing pop the hood times to the point of being weary and ready to bail out. Stealership could do nothing to fix it and just told me to get used to bleeding it. When I put the pump in the tank, it was a whole new truck. It starts instantly and exactly the same every time. It runs like it should have from the start. I saw no leaks in the fuel lines when under pressure after the install but assume the vaccum of sucking the fuel from the tank caused air to enter at the couplers at the top of the tank. I do not know for sure where the air was getting in but I blead a butt load off before the install. This truck was a nightmare before the pump install. I am so greatful to GMCTD for putting this fix together. On paper, this fix may show up as unnecessary but practical application was 100% necessary. It is possible that cutting the couplers off and clamping the lines directly to the top of the tank would have stopped the air but this fix solved all the problems and caused me no problems. The added beifit is, when changing the fuel filter, simply screwing it on and running the pump through the 20 second cycle without bleeding a thing is worth it. The pump should have been back at the tank to start with.

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White Sport '05 Libby CRD - born on date: 6/3/2005, FIA Grill Blanket, Fumoto drain plug, 2.8 CRD Turbo Diesel hood decals, Jeep windshield bug & stone deflector, Molded tire cover with custom JEEP & Liberty CRD decals, Cummins Lift Pump, Pro-vent, GDE Eco no limit tune, Odyssey 34R drycell battery, Meziere in-line stat, ETecno1 glow plugs

It is...untill the '05 came out......

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Cherokee 2,5 CRD: sold - Wrangler TJ 2.5: gone - Touareg V10 TDI: new toy

Solo Liberty en Español: Jeepliberty.es

Darby
I just read that thread and don't find it funny As I'm one of the unfortunate ones It points out a sad fact about dealer service departments and Chrysler being blind to problems. Could this approach have helped them get where they are now?
The thread shows there was a growing problem in July 05 almost a year before I bought mine and 4 years later people are still having it and no perment fix from Chrysler
As mentioned GDS should not have brought it up or possibly explained their thinking better Did they possibly do this for attention

I had 4 choices to resolve my air in the fuel problem.
(1)work with the dealer
(2)replace all the plastic fuel lines and fittings myself with metal and rubber parts.
(3)use the wiring, relay and fuse already there and put in a in tank pump.
(4)sell the darned thing.

Anyone who's ever had a intermittent problem knows that number one is out Number two would take a lot of work Number three was half done for me so it was the least trouble. Four was too costly and I wanted a small diesel SUV

Or were you just being coy pointing it out

But I still like the 5 extra mpg's (so far) and smooth preformance of my GDS tune. I wounder how it would do if I pulled the fuse in position 10 of the PDU

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Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

No fueling issues here either and Im close to 50,000 miles.

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2006 KJ CRD Ltd - Suncoast, GDE Eco, EGR Delete, After market T-Stat, Skid Row skids, V6 airbox, 2.5" Turbo back
2005 KJ CRD Sport-Suncoast, Transco, GDE Hot-GDE Trans, EGR Delete, Skid Row skids, V6 airbox, 2.5" Turbo back, After market S-Stat
1987 Suzuki LWB Samurai -diesel powered, custom 4 link coil suspension 38.5 SX Swampers

The fuel system can work as intended. The only modification I've done is remove the armature from the fuel heater relay.

I've only had one fuel starvation issue in 70k miles, during a cold snap of five consecutive -18°F to -10°F mornings without enough driving to warm up the engine properly. I'm going to blame that one on a chunk of ice in the water separator portion of the fuel filter. (fuel filter hadn't been changed for about 40k miles - my bad)

I've also excercised the fuel and cooling systems pretty hard and not had issues. Towing my camper (26' / 5600#) I've run full tank averages as low as 12 mpg. 90°F / high humidity ambient with a 15 mph headwind in the Great Smoky Mountains with a trailer that's over 10% heavier than the design limit. No complaints there.

I recognize that others have had different and worse experiences, but please try to keep it down to a respectful disagreement.

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2005 CRD Limited Flame Red w/ Renegade rock rails & light bar, AirLift 1000. 225/75R16 MT/R's on cheap black steel wheels, dual MOPAR subwoofers, Ipod kit & seat covers, Samco hoses - totaled and gone. 2008 WK Laredo 3.0L diesel - AirLift 1000, wife won't let me mess with it much. 2013 JK Sahara on order.

you've driven a truck that you just bought a month ago 50K miles already!!!

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Trevor

'05 Limited CRD Inferno Red Pearl Coat
Home made provent installed @ 35443, SEGR installed @ 35466, Fumoto valve @ 37500, trans and transfer case skid, In tank pump installed @ 43500, Suncoast TC & Transgo Shift Kit @ 44730, EGT, Boost, Trans temp gauges, Samco hoses, Rebuilt Trans w/ HD454RFE kit @ 56K, Inmotion Stage 2 @ 56K

To put my perspective into perspective, I work around Waste Water Equipment that can result in big fines if it does not function properly.
I do my best to train the operators how to run and maintain it so it works.
I fly on Commercial Aircraft to get where I need to be, delays and cancellations screw things up.
I favor the Airlines that have common sense proactive maintenance above and beyond the FAA requirements.
I need to get to the Airport on time and I can't put up with any foreseeable preventable delays.

Having fought many vacuum leaks on diesel fuel systems in the past, I want a permanent fix so I don't have to fix it.
A lift pump is a cheap permanent fix that does nothing more than put a slight positive pressure on the system so it does not suck in any air.
As far as any potential hop up effect, I don't think any one could sense or even measure the remotely possible theoretical 0.0004% increase in power due to the extra inlet pressure into the CP3 pump (Laws of Physics).

Sorry if this offends any of the Purist Fundamentalist Bone Stock Enthusiasts.

May your "O" Rings never suck any AIR.

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2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

Ya, amazing isnt it. Is it that difficult to figure out that the previous owner didnt have any fueling issues either?

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2006 KJ CRD Ltd - Suncoast, GDE Eco, EGR Delete, After market T-Stat, Skid Row skids, V6 airbox, 2.5" Turbo back
2005 KJ CRD Sport-Suncoast, Transco, GDE Hot-GDE Trans, EGR Delete, Skid Row skids, V6 airbox, 2.5" Turbo back, After market S-Stat
1987 Suzuki LWB Samurai -diesel powered, custom 4 link coil suspension 38.5 SX Swampers

No fuel issues here at all... no air, no leaks... bone stock

Just wanted to throw a thanks to the guys at GDE for looking into this stuff... because I'm waaaaaaaay too lazy to do it myself

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Former CRD owner... now I just sit around and stare at the wall.

...and here we still are trying to correct the mistakes of the "bean counters". This forum has come up with some decent solutions...and I hope we can come up with more and better ones in the very near future. The biggest would be a tune that protects the TC and delivers more power and fuel economy.

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Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

I think that GDE has already met those three objectives for us Everyone still "on the fence here" about what tune to get should find a member with the tune an try it out.
My location is in my signature if anyone is near here or passing through

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Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

I was trying to be understated...lol

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Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

I've made this argument before
I believe the fuel problems - were a intermittent molding problem with the fuel head - if you had leaks - it stayed bad and you couldn't get it fixed (and the dealerships were no help) until you changed the fuel head to something better - typically Racor.

if you didn't have leaks - they ran fine - and there are a lot of CRDs that did not have problems.

(oh yeah and if you thought it was a filter problem and put a CAT on a slightly leaky fuel head - it got worse)

I have a lift pump - but it's a safety factor (sounds better than Feel Good)
- I ran 50,000 miles without fuel problems before I put it in.

and GDE still sounds pretty good.

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2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Guess I owe all you It's Stock, Something Has To Be Wrong Enthusiasts an apology.

May your lift pump give you warm fuzzy feelings of security.

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2005 sport crd-SOLD No regrets

It is my belief that the fuel system problem experienced by some owners is not a “design” flaw, but rather a “mechanical” error found in those cars which display the problem. If the problem were due to a design issue then “all” owners would have experienced the issue. Clearly this is not the case. I suspect that the problem is related to poor manufacture and/or installation of the fuel lines/heads which results in poor sealing of the system due to gasket, or fitting failure/misalignment. The result being that the system, under vacuum rather than pressure as has been noted, sucks in air and causes the engine to be starved of fuel.

Logic would dictate that the problem has to be “unique” to those vehicles which display the problem, or else all would have reported the issue. The percentage of owners noting the difficulty may be high, but it is not 100%. I am an original owner with over 70k miles at present. I have started/driven the Jeep in temps ranging from -20 to over 100F without issue. I get a general mpg of 25+/- and have approached 30 mpg on occasion in hot weather. My car is bone stock and has had no fuel issues (except a minor slow start due to dirty filter) in the entire time I have owned it. I normally change my filter at 25 thousand miles and have only had to prime the system after filter change. I do not use any fuel additives except some anti-gel in very cold weather.

I am not an engineer, mechanic, or gear head, but just a lowly chemist. I do understand the principal of “Occam’s razor” which has been understood by both scientists and philosophers since the 1300s. Basically the theory states that the simplest answer to a problem is the most correct. I suspect that the simple answer is mechanical failure, not design flaw. If I had the problem I would be looking at the fittings and couplings FIRST and eliminate those as the cause before looking for more complicated solutions.

Just my 2 cents. Oh and by the way, kudos to GDE for simple, logical, and non-emotional solutions.

Push-pull

I dunno.

I dunna care.

If it works, DRIVE IT!

I wanna lift pump cuz when the temp goes down, a wvo/D2 blend "pushes" easier than trying to "pull" it.

The Cat serves as a muffler. The muffler has become land fill.

I wanna better intercooler and hoses.

C.

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2006 4X4 CRD Limited Dark Khaki Build Date 03/06 - Her daily driver

Yes I'm old enough to know better