Locker and snow

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:33 am

Hi , I searched and researched topics that we will debate this, but I found little information about it and then you apologize in advance if the argument was already treated.
I live in pre Alps 1500 meters of altitude and the conditions in winter are really critical, the KJ is good on snow but I wanted to improve its ability to traction on roads with snow and ice.
kj are equipped with thermal tires and snow chains but I would like to add a Detroit True track or a Detroit locker ......... what you recommend? What is better?
keep in mind that the KJ it's my daily drive on mountain roads , and my driving style is fast enough , if you look in my " www" you will find some pictures about road conditions .
thanks in advance to those who can help me with your impressions and experiences.

This is a video that I made in March, the street had been cleaned, but go home with 50 cm of heavy snow uphill was tough
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmPiHSTbwdA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fuser%2FYetikj&feature=player_profilepage

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:50 am

Wow - beautiful country.

We only get snow once every 6-7 years and more like 1-2 cm.

I think the TrueTrack would be better.

the true advantage of the Locker is when 1 wheel is off the ground.
some people have problems when the locker locks/unlocks -
although that's more of a concern with PowerTrax than the Detroit.

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:09 am

thanks for your advice :wink:

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:42 am

some other advice? impressions?

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:52 am

A locker would make handling in the snow worse I would think. A Detroit True Track would be better.

jeepetorp · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:17 am

If the road is leaning it is not a good thing to have automatic lockers. Then you might slide off the road when booth wheel spin. It´s better if one wheel loses traction and the other wheel keeps your Jeep on the road.

So if your economical situation alows you to buy a manual locker, that would be better. Why not ARB airlocker while you´re at it...

Is there no LSD in the rear diff?

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:00 pm

i have an aussie locker.. locked all the time when power it put to the wheels and unlocks when off the gas. it made my KJ 1000 times better in the snow and ice than it was. before when i couldnt move at a stop sign because one wheel was spinning i'd have to put it in 4wd... now it just goes. having a locker in snow is equivalent to driving in 4wd compared to 2wd... then when you put it in 4wd it is a real tank. i strongly suggest it... and between the 2 choices you gave me i'd say get the detroit locker. tried and true.. wont let you down and you will have outstanding traction. also when the snow is melting/plowed off the road and it is partially bare and partially covered in ice/snow.. the locker keeps traction since one wheel is on the dry.. where an open diff lets the one wheel on the slippery surface spin causing a temporary loss of traction..

i live south south east of the great lakes... several times this winter we had 2 feet of snow... and we always have snow/ice on the roads.

that is my direct experience with a locker in snow/icy conditions

p.s.- everyone told me it would be worse in the snow too... they all must live where it doesnt snow or have no experience with one

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:23 pm

I have had no problems with my DL in the snow, but I do think that a DTT would have probably been better, I would say a DTT front and rear.

icarl · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:36 pm

jeepetorp wrote:

If the road is leaning it is not a good thing to have automatic lockers. Then you might slide off the road when booth wheel spin. It´s better if one wheel loses traction and the other wheel keeps your Jeep on the road.

From what I hear most of the problems with auto lockers comes from going around corners. On ice less torque = more traction. If you go around a corner and start to slide the best thing to do is throw it in neutral. Powering around the corner will only make it worse (unless you are in under steer and want to 'fish tail' around the corner but the e-brake works well for this). Putting it in neutral will allow the wheels to roll and stop the wheels from sliding and regain some traction. Then you can steer to safety. With an auto locker when you go around a corner the outside wheel unlocks and becomes a free spinning tire. Because it has no torque you have max traction on that wheel. However, the inside wheel now has all the torque. Remember that on ice more torque equals less traction. So if you power that inside tire too much you lose traction on that tire. If the outside tire does not have enough traction either you will fish tail or spin around. So having the locker in will require you to change your driving habits. Does the locker mean you have less traction than a lsd? yes and no. If you go around the corner and throw the vehicle into neutral then you will have max traction around that corner locker or not. But if you are in gear the lsd has the advantage in that it provides power to both wheels around the corner thus spreading the torque out. Essentially the lsd is a compromise between the open (max traction around icy corner) and auto locker (least traction around icy corner).

icarl · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:03 pm

jsc7002 wrote:

I have had no problems with my DL in the snow, but I do think that a DTT would have probably been better, I would say a DTT front and rear.

So, are you saying if you did it again you would get a DTT in the rear? Or are you saying that in snow and ice it would be better to have the DTT, but you would still go with the DL because of better off-road performance.

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:44 pm

jeepetorp wrote:

If the road is leaning it is not a good thing to have automatic lockers. Then you might slide off the road when booth wheel spin. It´s better if one wheel loses traction and the other wheel keeps your Jeep on the road.

So if your economical situation alows you to buy a manual locker, that would be better. Why not ARB airlocker while you´re at it...

Is there no LSD in the rear diff?

thanks for your impression , the economical situation can't allows me to buy a manual locker....yes i have a stock .....trac lok , but I want something more performance

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:07 pm

2006 KJ wrote:

i have an aussie locker.. locked all the time when power it put to the wheels and unlocks when off the gas. it made my KJ 1000 times better in the snow and ice than it was. before when i couldnt move at a stop sign because one wheel was spinning i'd have to put it in 4wd... now it just goes. having a locker in snow is equivalent to driving in 4wd compared to 2wd... then when you put it in 4wd it is a real tank. i strongly suggest it... and between the 2 choices you gave me i'd say get the detroit locker. tried and true.. wont let you down and you will have outstanding traction. also when the snow is melting/plowed off the road and it is partially bare and partially covered in ice/snow.. the locker keeps traction since one wheel is on the dry.. where an open diff lets the one wheel on the slippery surface spin causing a temporary loss of traction..

i live south south east of the great lakes... several times this winter we had 2 feet of snow... and we always have snow/ice on the roads.

that is my direct experience with a locker in snow/icy conditions

p.s.- everyone told me it would be worse in the snow too... they all must live where it doesnt snow or have no experience with one

thanks for your impression , my concern is precisely that, because driving uphill in a bend to give up the gas can be counterproductive in some conditions .
Having a style guide "fast" could be counterproductive on the mountain bends ? under all conditions?
or have to readjust my driving style, driving with a more "slow"?
my fear is the engage the lock on the slimy in a bend

thanks again

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:08 pm

icarl wrote:

jsc7002 wrote:

I have had no problems with my DL in the snow, but I do think that a DTT would have probably been better, I would say a DTT front and rear.

So, are you saying if you did it again you would get a DTT in the rear? Or are you saying that in snow and ice it would be better to have the DTT, but you would still go with the DL because of better off-road performance.

Im saying I think that the DTT would be better in snow and ice, I love my DL but I wich I would have gotten a DTT but I just got too good of a deal on the DL to pass it up, but I dont take the KJ off-road all that much any more

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:23 pm

icarl wrote:

jeepetorp wrote:

If the road is leaning it is not a good thing to have automatic lockers. Then you might slide off the road when booth wheel spin. It´s better if one wheel loses traction and the other wheel keeps your Jeep on the road.

From what I hear most of the problems with auto lockers comes from going around corners. On ice less torque = more traction. If you go around a corner and start to slide the best thing to do is throw it in neutral. Powering around the corner will only make it worse (unless you are in under steer and want to 'fish tail' around the corner but the e-brake works well for this). Putting it in neutral will allow the wheels to roll and stop the wheels from sliding and regain some traction. Then you can steer to safety. With an auto locker when you go around a corner the outside wheel unlocks and becomes a free spinning tire. Because it has no torque you have max traction on that wheel. However, the inside wheel now has all the torque. Remember that on ice more torque equals less traction. So if you power that inside tire too much you lose traction on that tire. If the outside tire does not have enough traction either you will fish tail or spin around. So having the locker in will require you to change your driving habits. Does the locker mean you have less traction than a lsd? yes and no. If you go around the corner and throw the vehicle into neutral then you will have max traction around that corner locker or not. But if you are in gear the lsd has the advantage in that it provides power to both wheels around the corner thus spreading the torque out. Essentially the lsd is a compromise between the open (max traction around icy corner) and auto locker (least traction around icy corner).

even your a beautiful explanation in fact the thing that concerns me, besides the risk of the blocks in the bends giving too much gas, is the fact that the couple would be transferred to the wheel inside the corner .
I am somewhat undecided whether to opt for a D-locker or a DTT , we both have their merits and defects, I do not know which to choose

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:52 pm

I have a question for 2006 KJ , because where you live has snowed a lot and that you feel comfortable with the Aussie locker, I wanted to ask if the roads that are normally go are flat or if they are like those of mountain

thanks again

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:12 pm

jsc7002 wrote:

I have had no problems with my DL in the snow, but I do think that a DTT would have probably been better, I would say a DTT front and rear.

front and rear ?? with a full-time can i have some problems ?

thanks in advance

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:15 pm

Yeti wrote:

jsc7002 wrote:

I have had no problems with my DL in the snow, but I do think that a DTT would have probably been better, I would say a DTT front and rear.

front and rear ?? with a full-time can i have some problems ?

thanks in advance

I dont think you would have any problems, IIRC there is a member on here who has full-time with a DTT in it

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:16 pm

I live in the rockies. I drive on a lot of high altitude roads with lots of snow in the winter. I would not do it with a locker but I guess most who think it's a good idea aren't worried about going off a cliff.

The DTT is where it's at, forget the locker nonsense. The ARB is great because you can shut it off in the snow.

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:18 pm

jsc7002 wrote:

Yeti wrote:

jsc7002 wrote:

I have had no problems with my DL in the snow, but I do think that a DTT would have probably been better, I would say a DTT front and rear.

front and rear ?? with a full-time can i have some problems ?

thanks in advance

I dont think you would have any problems, IIRC there is a member on here who has full-time with a DTT in it

thanks

Yeti · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:29 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

I live in the rockies. I drive on a lot of high altitude roads with lots of snow in the winter. I would not do it with a locker but I guess most who think it's a good idea aren't worried about going off a cliff.

The DTT is where it's at, forget the locker nonsense. The ARB is great because you can shut it off in the snow.

I know .
the ARB is great but I can not afford me , what do you think of two DTT in front and rear in snowy road?

Locker and snow

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