Radiator Flush

NJCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:58 am

Had my radiator flushed by my mechanic yesterday. With a tad over 56K on the clock the amount of brown sh%t that came out was amazing. :shock:

The truck ran for over 8 hours with a constant flow of water being cycled and flushed through the system until only clear came out.
And no, I'm not running that red crap that comes from the factory. It's not good for your cooling system despite its claim of going till 100,000 miles. Filled with a 50/50 mix of the good ol green anti freeze that has been around forever.
I'm sure this will cause a stir in the forum over which is better. I just wanted to post my findings that a simple flush at 56K resulted in a lot of brown stuff coming out of my cooling system.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:02 am

Running the "green stuff" is okay in your system since Ethylene Glycol is silicate based and the HOAT factory fill coolant is based off of Ethylene Glycol.You just need to change your coolant every year(2 years at the max) now.Just as long as you didn't use any type of universal,"for all makes",or Dexacool coolant your fine.

NJCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:20 pm

Nope, just regular green stuff. Every 2 years is fine by me. I bought my jeep new in march of 2006. So after seeing what came out of my radiator during yesterdays flush after 3 years I'm more then happy to flush every 2 years. I'm just curious as what the factory stuff looks like after 100k miles.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:30 pm

Maybe you wouldn't have had brown sludge if you had kept the factory specd HOAT coolant in the system.

NJCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:32 pm

That was the factory junk. Re read initial post. Gross stuff

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:49 pm

perhaps I'm not reading your post correctly, you said that you are NOT running the factory stuff. Did you drain out the red stuff perviously and replace with green, or with this flush?

NJCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:00 pm

Just flushed factory red stuff out yesterday at 56K. Came out brown and sludgy. Flushed foe 8 hours with the truck running. Refilled with green stuff and water. Will see how it looks in 2 years.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:42 pm

Ahh. Hmm. Were you flushing out the Protodin protective skin with that long flush? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze Maybe I should do mine before winter.

Cowpie1 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:27 pm

Just a comment on using the "green stuff". I run multiple diesel engines and have to watch what coolant gets in to each one of them. You have to take into account that the VM engine in the Liberty CRD has wet sleeve cylinders. That being said, cavitation is the primary culprit of wet sleeve failures. Even the previous red coolant requiring SCA's has been shown to be not even the best solution for wet sleeved cylinders. Green is definately not recommended by virtually all diesel engine manufacturers. The newest red Extended Life Coolant is the preferred choice by engine manufacturers today.

When the coolant next to the wet sleeve gets hot, it will tend to explode. Unless there is the proper barrier between this explosion and the cylinder, pitting can result. Nitrates in the previous red coolant did the job, but supplemental additives had to be included from time to time and that mandated frequent coolant testing to make sure the SCA level is correct. The newest red ELC coolant has been developed to better prevent any pitting from this cavitation and NO supplemental coolant addtitives are required unless you take the coolant beyond 5 yr, 150,000 miles (600,000 miles in over the road truck engines). I refer you to www.kostusa.com for more information. The newest red ELC is specially formulated for the cylinder protection and aluminum heads like that of the CRD and the Duramax. It is the only stuff that goes into the Cummins in my semi, CRD in my Liberty, and my New Holland ag tractor. It is the preferred product recommended by Cat, Detroit, and Cummins.

You might want to reconsider using the green stuff. Why not use the best protection for your investment? Your call. Just passing on info. Do with it what you wish.

NJCRD · **Posted:** Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:21 am

Still want to run the high life, red anti freeze?

http://www.girardgibbs.com/dexcool.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automoti ... xcool.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=1527004

That's just a few. Google Red Antifreeze or DexCool- and find what comes up.
Why does the manufacturer recommend the red stuff? A little better for the environment... hmmm so if the EGR valve on our engine right? We all see the trouble that causes.
Does the manufacturer recommend the red stuff because in time it does eat away at your gaskets? Hmmm, engine needs new gaskets. Take to the dealer and pay for fixing after warranty is gone? Nah, buy a new vehicle.
I'm sticking with the new green. As previously mentioned, the truck was puking a ton of brown sludge associated with the factory fill red that was in there from the first day. This is the first flush ever performed on the Jeep as it just went over 57,000 miles yesterday. I will gladly re-flush every 2 years and report back my findings.
I just initially posted to say that again, I bought the vehicle new and put just about every mile on her and she puked a ton of brown for hours on end during the first flushing of the cooling system.

RTStabler51 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:44 am

IIRC, if it was the initial coolant then it carried possible sand from casting. I thought I remember reading that on here a few years back. After reading that, I took mine to the dealership (I actually like my servicing dealer) and had them flush it...FWIW

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

RTStabler51 wrote:

IIRC, if it was the initial coolant then it carried possible sand from casting. I thought I remember reading that on here a few years back. After reading that, I took mine to the dealership (I actually like my servicing dealer) and had them flush it...FWIW

There was indeed. Retmil46 had similar looking crud in his CRD overflow tank right from the factory. He drained his coolant and found casting sand and other ugly looking debris in the coolant. This was in mid 2005 iirc, when he first bought his CRD. It wasn't the coolant that was bad, it was contaminated with factory casting sand. He showed me a bottle of sand at a GTC that he kept - it was nasty looking stuff. His dealer performed a full flush and it's been clean ever since still using the HOAT coolant.

Similar stories are listed in some Dakota forums, where a few members found casting sand in their 4.7L V8 blocks. One removed a freeze plug and managed to flush out quite a bit of sand. It happens from time to time.

BTW, Dexcool has many horror stories in GM engines. I'm not sure what that has to do with CRD's, as Chrylser didn't use Dexcool in Jeep Liberties, gasoline or diesel. They used Zerex G05 HOAT coolant, not Dexcool. Diesel engines with wet liners require an SCA to prevent cylinder pitting damage if you're going to use conventional coolant. There are plenty of sites that show what to use with conventional coolant. It's just not worth the hassle to me to add it and keep tabs on the SCA levels. It's easier to change the HOAT and be done with it.

I flushed my V6 at 5 years and 55K miles and the coolant was very clean and still a bright color. I flushed my CRD at 38K miles and it was also very clean. I paid particular attention after seeing Retmil46's jar of casting sand, but even after pouring the drained antifreeze into clear 1 gallon jars, I couldn't find any evidence of even tiny amounts of sand or debris. The old stuff looked as good as the new, but that's no indication of anything except that it was free of sand and debris.

The HOAT Chrylser and Ford uses is Zerez G05, as shown on this site - http://www.valvoline.com/products/brand ... ifreeze/42

Quote:

Overview

Zerex® G-05 is the original full chemistry in newer Ford & Daimler Chrysler vehicles. Its Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) chemistry combines the best of conventional and organic acid-based chemistry to provide the ultimate protection against rust and corrosion.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:23 pm

NJCRD wrote:

Still want to run the high life, red anti freeze?

http://www.girardgibbs.com/dexcool.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automoti ... xcool.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=1527004

That's just a few. Google Red Antifreeze or DexCool- and find what comes up.
Why does the manufacturer recommend the red stuff? A little better for the environment... hmmm so if the EGR valve on our engine right? We all see the trouble that causes.
Does the manufacturer recommend the red stuff because in time it does eat away at your gaskets? Hmmm, engine needs new gaskets. Take to the dealer and pay for fixing after warranty is gone? Nah, buy a new vehicle.
I'm sticking with the new green. As previously mentioned, the truck was puking a ton of brown sludge associated with the factory fill red that was in there from the first day. This is the first flush ever performed on the Jeep as it just went over 57,000 miles yesterday. I will gladly re-flush every 2 years and report back my findings.
I just initially posted to say that again, I bought the vehicle new and put just about every mile on her and she puked a ton of brown for hours on end during the first flushing of the cooling system.

All those sites refer to Dexcool, which is OAT(organic acid technology) coolant, and is a different animal from HOAT (organic acid technology), which is in our CRDs and goes by the brand name of Zerex G-05. I had a 99 Chevy S-10 with dexcool, which blew the manifold gasket at 130k miles. I was under five years and under 150k miles, but I topped it off one time with regular green stuff.

I'm sure that no one will fault you with changing your coolant before the recommended interval, and the green stuff works just fine, although it requires more frequent changes. It is just that there have been no reported premature failures of components with HOAT in the cooling system.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:48 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

NJCRD wrote:

Still want to run the high life, red anti freeze?

http://www.girardgibbs.com/dexcool.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automoti ... xcool.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=1527004

That's just a few. Google Red Antifreeze or DexCool- and find what comes up.
Why does the manufacturer recommend the red stuff? A little better for the environment... hmmm so if the EGR valve on our engine right? We all see the trouble that causes.
Does the manufacturer recommend the red stuff because in time it does eat away at your gaskets? Hmmm, engine needs new gaskets. Take to the dealer and pay for fixing after warranty is gone? Nah, buy a new vehicle.
I'm sticking with the new green. As previously mentioned, the truck was puking a ton of brown sludge associated with the factory fill red that was in there from the first day. This is the first flush ever performed on the Jeep as it just went over 57,000 miles yesterday. I will gladly re-flush every 2 years and report back my findings.
I just initially posted to say that again, I bought the vehicle new and put just about every mile on her and she puked a ton of brown for hours on end during the first flushing of the cooling system.

All those sites refer to Dexcool, which is OAT(organic acid technology) coolant, and is a different animal from HOAT (organic acid technology), which is in our CRDs and goes by the brand name of Zerex G-05. I had a 99 Chevy S-10 with dexcool, which blew the manifold gasket at 130k miles. I was under five years and under 150k miles, but I topped it off one time with regular green stuff.

I'm sure that no one will fault you with changing your coolant before the recommended interval, and the green stuff works just fine, although it requires more frequent changes. It is just that there have been no reported premature failures of components with HOAT in the cooling system.

Not to thread-jack, but I had a 98 S-10 Blazer 4-door that was practically grenaded by Dexcool. I had just passed 36,000 - was still under 37,000 miles - and the Dexcool turned to chalk. The tech never could find any evidence of electrolysis, so they said "Contamination." Thankfully I knew the owner of the dealership, who went to bat for me to get the repair covered, but it meant:

1. New Heater Core, necessitated removal of the dash, discombobulating my electrical system
2. New Water pump
3. All new hoses, including lines to heater core
4. Removal of the radiator and a complete flush/ clean of the rad
5. New thermostat
6. High-pressure flush of the engine water jackets by attaching directly to the coolant inlet/outlets

I never trusted that vehicle after that, and when I started experiencing the electrical problems (apparently caused by the dash removal) I got out of it and took a $3500 loss.

I will never, ever, never ever never buy another GM product ever again, with three exceptions: A Corvette, a half-ton truck with a small fuel efficient diesel, or a pre-1980 muscle/ pony car.

Cowpie1 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:09 pm

When I referred to the Red Stuff in my previous post, I was not even thinking of the typical store shelf Dexcool or whatever. The stuff I use in my CRD is the same stuff I use in the Cummins in my semi. Cat EC-1 is one of the labels it goes under. Delo and Shell have this specific diesel engine coolant as well. It is HOAT. The stuff went thru 350,000 miles in my semi and looked great. I decided to flush and fill with new ELC coolant when I had to replace a water pump that developed a cold leak (heck, had to drain the block anyway). Cheap insurance. It was factory filled with Shell Rotella ELC coolant (same stuff as Cat EC-1). Since there are many similarities between modern semi engines and the Liberty CRD engine, specifically the wet sleeved cylinders, then it seems warranted to use the same coolant that large diesels use and is specifically formulated to protect wet sleeved cylinders and aluminum heads. Not sure the stuff on the typical Wally World shelves is the same stuff (at the very least, I haven't seen this stuff on Wally shelves or even home and farm stores in my area and the auto parts stores didn't carry it). I get all my coolant from heavy truck supply outlets or dealers. The Duramax and Powerstroke diesels are not wet sleeved, so they do not have a problem with cylinder liner cavitation. The CRD will have the same issues as heavy diesel engines which are wet sleeved. Since it is extremely expensive to replace the cylinder liners in a CRD, I didn't want to take any chances. So... the CRD gets the same coolant my semi gets. Didn't even bother to consult Chrysler/Jeep on the issue. I go by the standards and recommendations of the Technology and Maintenance Council... the hands down authority in the transportation industry and recognized by ALL diesel engine OEMs.

Like I stated before, take the information for what you think it's worth. No skin off my back what coolant you choose. If you feel comfortable using green, then by all means do so. I brought this up only so some would at least research out the issue before just throwing any 'ol coolant in their CRD. Of many things I would be willing to save a buck on, coolant in my CRD is not one of them, just like in the $25,000 engine in my semi. And it was not much more expensive to flush and fill the CRD with the ELC coolant. Barely noticed the price compared to many other costs associated with the CRD.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:02 pm

linewarbr wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

NJCRD wrote:

Still want to run the high life, red anti freeze?

http://www.girardgibbs.com/dexcool.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automoti ... xcool.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=1527004

That's just a few. Google Red Antifreeze or DexCool- and find what comes up.
Why does the manufacturer recommend the red stuff? A little better for the environment... hmmm so if the EGR valve on our engine right? We all see the trouble that causes.
Does the manufacturer recommend the red stuff because in time it does eat away at your gaskets? Hmmm, engine needs new gaskets. Take to the dealer and pay for fixing after warranty is gone? Nah, buy a new vehicle.
I'm sticking with the new green. As previously mentioned, the truck was puking a ton of brown sludge associated with the factory fill red that was in there from the first day. This is the first flush ever performed on the Jeep as it just went over 57,000 miles yesterday. I will gladly re-flush every 2 years and report back my findings.
I just initially posted to say that again, I bought the vehicle new and put just about every mile on her and she puked a ton of brown for hours on end during the first flushing of the cooling system.

All those sites refer to Dexcool, which is OAT(organic acid technology) coolant, and is a different animal from HOAT (organic acid technology), which is in our CRDs and goes by the brand name of Zerex G-05. I had a 99 Chevy S-10 with dexcool, which blew the manifold gasket at 130k miles. I was under five years and under 150k miles, but I topped it off one time with regular green stuff.

I'm sure that no one will fault you with changing your coolant before the recommended interval, and the green stuff works just fine, although it requires more frequent changes. It is just that there have been no reported premature failures of components with HOAT in the cooling system.

Not to thread-jack, but I had a 98 S-10 Blazer 4-door that was practically grenaded by Dexcool. I had just passed 36,000 - was still under 37,000 miles - and the Dexcool turned to chalk. The tech never could find any evidence of electrolysis, so they said "Contamination." Thankfully I knew the owner of the dealership, who went to bat for me to get the repair covered, but it meant:

1. New Heater Core, necessitated removal of the dash, discombobulating my electrical system
2. New Water pump
3. All new hoses, including lines to heater core
4. Removal of the radiator and a complete flush/ clean of the rad
5. New thermostat
6. High-pressure flush of the engine water jackets by attaching directly to the coolant inlet/outlets

I never trusted that vehicle after that, and when I started experiencing the electrical problems (apparently caused by the dash removal) I got out of it and took a $3500 loss.

I will never, ever, never ever never buy another GM product ever again, with three exceptions: A Corvette, a half-ton truck with a small fuel efficient diesel, or a pre-1980 muscle/ pony car.

Dexacool and all those other "universal" coolants(OAT coolants) keep me busy changing intake gaskets on GM vehicles,good paying jobs also.

irunmiles · **Posted:** Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:22 pm

So. how do you drain the old coolant from the engine and reservoir? There is a knob/petcock on the lower passenger side of the radiator. Should I open that, and will it drain the entire system. In the past with other vehicles I would remove the bottom radiator hose, but its not obvious where it is located on the CRD.

DocB · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:50 pm

Bump. Interested also. Thanks.

Radiator Flush

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