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Agree with kilcarb.org
Agree with killcarb.org 84%  84%  [ 31 ]
Don't Agree with killcarb.org 14%  14%  [ 5 ]
Could not care less, let them get me. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
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 Post subject: A plan to put CARB out of Business
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:56 pm 
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http://www.killcarb.org/

Here is an organization that shares our interests. As a CRD owner, I want CARB out of my life, even though I do not live in California, their attitude influences the legislation we all must put up with.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Agree 100 percent. They need to be disbanded. too much power and no checks and balances.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:34 pm 
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Agreed. Like the EPA, they've been allowed to morph into something far beyond their original mandate, passing inane regulations to justify their existence and paychecks, with little or no regard for the overall impact of their actions.

I remember a year or so ago, when CARB actually thought they could override international maritime law and force all ships within 200 miles of the CA coastline to burn ULSD instead of bunker fuel, notwithstanding that most ship engines aren't designed to burn ULSD. They literally got laughed out of federal court on that one.

When you get a bunch of appointed state bureaucrats so full of themselves they think they can order around not only their own state and national governments, but the governments of the other hundred-some-odd nations on this planet as well, it's time for them to go.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:15 am 
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I think the "Big one" should hit and wash the whole state into the sea. That would also put out the fires they are suffering now and clean up the air without CARB's help :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:34 am 
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LOL Joe, you are so funny.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:36 am 
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Being that I lived in CA for most of my life, I have been regulated, ticketed, and fined by CARB... I believe I have a bit more ground to stand on that the average person who reads too many biased reports and has NO idea how the system is actually good. I am also a person who is not blinded by political, cultural, religious, or any other form of bias.

I guess you could say I am a city-dwelling, gun-toting, diesel-burning, liberal who hugs trees, grows his own food, and only eats organic/pharmaceutical free meats directly from those who raise it, but only in small quantities as my diet is mostly vegetarian.

The CARB, while sometimes out of control, reflects the need for stiffer air quality regulations that what is found in the rest of the US. Due to the unique geographic and meteorological conditions that are found in the major metropolitan areas of the state (LA, SF and Sacramento). The have turned the unbreathable air of these areas into blue skys again. While I know this may be alien to most reading this, there was a time I remember when you were unable to go outside to play because the air quality was toxic. It was illegal to mow your lawn and asked to not drive if it was not totally necessary to curb the amount of pollution in the air. The CARB cleaned this up and made the air in those areas breathable again. Sure they put extra limitations on automobiles, they also did the same for industry.

On the flip side, CARB is a panel made up of some seriously diluted individuals, like most politicians, are more concerned about their personal advancement and carrier than the best interest of the state. This is no more evident than the crushing of the electric car program... quite literally. The electric cars that were introduced by GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda were all destroyed because a bureaucratic blunder that makes me PROUD to say I am a Minnesotan.

While some of their provisions are ignorance based, I can't fault them as they ARE a government body. When was the last time you found ignorance free government decisions being made?

Furthermore, the rest of the nation does not follow in step with CARB in adding regulations to their state laws. This was evident when CARB attempted to require ALL cars sold in the US to meet or exceed CARB standards. This was crushed at the federal level, where it will remain dead for ever. People need a scape goat for any issue they don't agree with. And those g'darned hippies out in Cal-i-for-nia are evil liberals who should just die, are the perfect ones to blame. Ignorance is bliss, and the US is filled with blissful people.

You want a good swift kick in the tail-pipe, wait till CAFE standards start to mirror the Europeans. The US is so far behind the rest of the 1st world it is not even funny. This is because Americans in general think we are on the cutting edge of everything, our politicians and media don't seem to help, yet we are so darn far behind it's pathetic. This includes foreign relations, education, infastructor, and just about every single thing it takes to have a progressive society. We are stuck in the past, and darn it, we need to pull our heads out of our collective asses before it is too late. Didn't the Roman Empire make it about as long as we have? ;)

Oh, and if the "big one" ever does come, CA will not "fall into the ocean" it will just move LA up the coast a bit further north. Don't they teach you people about plate tectonics east of the Rockies? :roll:

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Last edited by Rich on Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:55 am 
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RICH: I agree with most of what you said. As I see it CARB thinks it is something they are not. It is real arrogant on their part to think that they should control what happens outside of CA. They have some good ideas but they need to be knocked down a peg or two. Something does need to be done about the massive amount of pollution the USA expels, but a state entity is NOT who needs to do it. The states need to do their own part and insist that the Feds set national standards that work and enforce them.

Terry

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:15 am 
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Hate to admit it, but I spent a few years on the central coast of Caliiifornnnniaaa myself.

The way its supposed to work is for elected officials to pass laws to address a problem and then agencies like CARB write regulations and procedures that give meat to the law. (ok Tofu for the vegan's in the audience)

The way its working in California is that CARB institutes regulations and procedures as it sees fit, without mandate from the legislature to solve any particular issue or implement any particular law. In effect CARB is making laws with out being elected to office.

CARB has the power to regulate without direction from Sacramento - Not sure how it got that way, maybe a combination of over reaching public servants and elected law makers who refuse to accept the responsibility to legislate. either way its broken.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:19 am 
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I wrote this as an edit to my earlier post, but figured it was long enough to warrant it's own post.

I agree that something needs to be done with CARB, but I don't think blasting it out of the water is a good idea at all.


my edit.


This website is the most uninformed, biased, and utterly ignorant website that I have come across in a number of years. They use false information to motivate an unknowing and ignorant population into thinking that support is a great idea.

Lets take a look... shall we?

Quote:
Reformulated Diesel Fuel: Do you remember when CARB mandated that Diesel Fuel be reformulated without adequate testing in the 1990's? The new fuel damaged thousands of diesel engines in the state and over ten million dollars of state funds were used to replace many of the damaged engines. You the taxpayers and working people paid for this. Bet your legislators never told you about this. But they fired 20,000 teachers in the state recently because they wasted your tax dollars on fraud agencies like CARB where they have placed their friends and political cronies on the payroll until the next election.


May I introduce the mandate of ULSD into use for street driven Diesel powered vehicles. Let us not forget that the use of ULSD has been proven to drastically cut down on the amount of so2 in the atmosphere which when mixed with h2o forms the compound h2so4 that kills vegetation, animal life, and eats through paint.

And the vast lay-offs in the state are just the poor budgeting of state officials since the days of former Gov. Wilson. That is nothing new, but Gov. Schwarzenegger, is to ignorant to see what needs to be done.

Quote:
MTBE: Over thirty billion paid out by working families over ten years for extra 20 to 30 cents a gallon. Estimated 10 billion dollars more to clean up ground water around the state that is contaminated with MTBE. CARB has an army of professional liar "public information officers" who spread the CARB propaganda to keep the CARB agency budget growing every year. They spent ten years lying to both the legislature and the public about the "benefits" of MTBE in your gasoline. Finally, the legislature had to ban MTBE in your gas when scientists proved that it was a poison to our environment and you. The average working family was forced to pay out over eight thousand dollars over ten years for the MTBE poison in their gasoline in California. (They would have over $12,000 in the bank today for their childrens' education if that money had been saved and invested).


MTBE was a bad idea, but it was just a band-aid to cover up the bigger issues of population excess, poor conservation of natural resources, and too many special interest lobbies having their finger in the pot. If you are given $10 to fix a $1000 problem, you are going to come up with something like MTBE. The hike in fuel prices throughout the state is what pays for CARB, but that is only a couple cents on the dollar AND was voted on by the public, not CARB. The other excess fuel charges come from no further than the oil companies themselves. The SF Bay area produces a surplus of fuels every year, yet they have one of the highest fuel prices in the nation. When natural disasters hit the south east, the prices in the Bay Area went up as much as $.20/gal. This is strange to anyone that paid attention to the situation. When one of the Bay Area refineries was damaged by an accident and out of production for a few months, fuel prices only went up $.03/gal. So, yes, MTBE was a mistake, but to blame the fuel prices and layoffs of teachers on CARB is like blaming your wife's horrible attempt at Soufflé on the grocery store.

Quote:
Electric Car mandate: CARB set the American automotive industry back by ten years in developing hybrid cars because CARB would not allow them as zero emission or low emission cars while CARB insisted on demanding that 5% of cars in California had to be electric cars. Only after they were forced to admit that the electric cars were a fraud, did they allow hybrid cars. By that time the Japanese manufacturers were way ahead of America. That has cost the American workers in the auto industry over 200.000 jobs and crushed the industry.


This one is my personal favorite because it is the most blatant muttering of FALSE accusations on the killcarb.org website.

The American automotive industry, big oil, and Dr. Alan Lloyd are responsible for the failure of the electric car programs. The electric cars worked, there was a waiting list for them a few thousand people long. Now, did people outside the state of CA know these electric cars were being produced and sold? NOPE! GM didn't even bother attempting to promote the vehicle through decent advertising. Yet EVERY single EV-1 produced rolled off the lot within hours of it's arrival. The same went for the Ford Ranger EV, Toyota Rav-4 EV, and the like. These cars did everything they were supposed to do and more. CARB made the bold move to require that 5% of all cars sold in the US were to be electric, and this forced the automotive industry to start thinking about the future, and where to go next. They resisted, hell, at the time American's were too busy buying up big dumb SUV's that guzzle down fuel, while they witch about how much fuel costs. GM was so apt at proving that an electric car would fail, they presented rebates for SUV's, but overcharged for the EV-1. Once the leases of the EV-1 were returned, GM took them to their proving grounds in Az, and crushed every one of them. This was the same for the Toyota, Honda, and Fords. They were all crushed and hidden away from sight so the public didn't see how GOOD they really were.

GM then dropped the program and went on building crap like the H2. Meanwhile, the likes of Toyota and Honda took this EV movement as a sign of the future and continued to progress the technology. The Big 3 made the choice to do things as normal, praying on the "buy American" movement and their past customer's loyalty to continue business as they did in the 60's. The inflated credit market only fueled this, and when it burst, they were left with their cheese in the wind. In conjunction, the "green movement" picked up steam at the same time. Nothing they built got decent mileage, or was good for the planet, so sales dropped. Rather than bringing over vehicles from Europe and Asia they already produced, they tried to sell more CRAP to Americans. Their failure in recent years is only evident of their inability to predict the future, know where things were headed, or evolve their business plan. All of these things are exactly what kills a business... which it did.

As for the US being 10yrs behind because of electric car development... that is utter BS. Not only was the technology there, produced, and able to be mass produced, but they hired different people for the project. This meant all the designers and thinkers at GM were still at work producing such wonders of automotive technology as the Aztek and H2/H3. Once the project was abandoned, they fired every one of the people who worked in the program. When GM took it's big ole crap, and the bottom fell out of their feeble business plan, Toyota offered to send over engineers to help GM develop a program for hybrid vehicles. They declined the offer, and came out with a few Hybrid's that get almost as bad economy as their gasser brethren.

So, believe what you want, but that website is based on pure conjecture praying on the average American's ignorance and unwillingness to do their own investigations. God Bless America!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:15 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Oh, and if the "big one" ever does come, CA will not "fall into the ocean" it will just move LA up the coast a bit further north. Don't they teach you people about plate tectonics east of the Rockies? :roll:


Rich: I'm sure that Joe meant it as a joke and I thought quite funny. :lol: It has noting to do with education about plate tectonics just logic that an entire state won't fall into the ocean. Anybody that believes that watches too much science fiction. :? BTW, I will be retiring October 15 and moving to NW Washington on an island where there is earthquake activity. Maybe I should be worry. :arrow: NOT

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:10 pm 
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I accidentally voted

Don't Agree with killcarb.org

What I meant was, Don't agree with carb.org

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:14 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I agree that something needs to be done with CARB, but I don't think blasting it out of the water is a good idea at all.


I agree with your analysis that the website shows significant bias, but I think blasting it away is exactly what needs to happen.

Disband and reform under a new name with a real charter to research, recommend and implement through regulation the laws enacted by the legislature and signed by the governor. That is the American way!

Not this elitist, "I know whats best for everyone" garbage that has been practiced in California and elsewhere and readily embraced by a cowardly legislature not willing to do their job.

I think an agency that's major responsibility to improve air quality through regulation is a great idea. CARB misses the mark.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:42 pm 
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From what I understand CARB has assisted in pretty much destroying new diesel vehicles in the USA

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:28 pm 
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MidnightLiberty wrote:
From what I understand CARB has assisted in pretty much destroying new diesel vehicles in the USA


They have been trying to regulate them out of exsistance for the past 20 years :shock: Every time VW and other manufacturers meet the standards the bar is raised :? Then there's the 7 me too states that that follow along like lemmings :cry:

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Last edited by Joe Romas on Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: One thing CARB obsesses over is NOX, but Agriculture .....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:11 pm 
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...produces over 6.9 times more NOX than all mobile combustion based upon EPA numbers.

Image

Perhaps those who live in LA area and other western areas that consider NOX to be a problem should give up fertilized lawns and plant some other indigenous vegetation that requires less water and/or plants that produce food so they do not add to the problem. If they want green grass buy some land in the part of the country where green grass is indigenous.

From what I can find the only places where NOX is a potential problem is in Some Large Western Cities under perfect conditions and over the South Pole where some claim it enlarges the Ozone hole. Last I checked there are no Sun Bathing Resorts at the South Pole.

With all of the concern about CO2 of which we all want to reduce to reasonable levels, what about the fires in California that are caused by poor Environmental Management. What is CARB going to do about all the pollution from the fire, fine the dirt the plants and trees grow in :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

Sound environmental stewardship is great, having Government agencies for Political Agenda is not acceptable, CARB has broken that rule.
Should CARB be disbanded, it would send a lesson to other agencies as did the arrests of the jerks at Enron did for their industry.
If and when CARB is gone, another agency will take over the responsibility, and hopefully they will do so responsibly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:31 pm 
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MidnightLiberty wrote:
From what I understand CARB has assisted in pretty much destroying new diesel vehicles in the USA
Wrong.

What has killed diesel in the good ole US of A is the collusion between big oil and domestic car manufacturers to keep out European competition. Fact.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:01 pm 
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This 2007 forward on particlate PM-10 EPA Federal standard for light diesel has been CARB influenced as well as stated by AZ CRD; the "gang" relationship of domestic auto mfgrs and Big Oil to keep Euro diesel fine products out of the U. S.
You know when you wear the rubber on tires that rubber turns into dust-- the particulate standard for light diesel allows for LESS particulate dust in the exhaust than the normal wear of your tires!!-That is the influence of Big Oil, Big three, and CARB.
With diesel you use oil to use less oil.
And now CARB comes up with these totally false charges that diesel particulates promote lung ailments, cancer and such. The California Media already proved the lead scientists repping CARB are quacks and fakes ( Dr Tran. CARB's lead expert bought his PHD for $1000).

Is CARB good??

Roland

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 Post subject: One CARB's PHDs, Dr. Tran
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:50 pm 
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http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/weblog ... 33291.html

No insult intended to any legitimate PHDs, Clowns, or Jerks :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:08 pm 
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AZ CRD wrote:
What has killed diesel in the good ole US of A is the collusion between big oil and domestic car manufacturers to keep out European competition. Fact.


It is the same reason the electric cars were killed quickly.

If the big three, and their big oil friends allowed the euro diesels here, there would be a BIG change in policy. I think that BMW, MB, and VW are leading a very necessary and open trail to bring just that to the US.

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 Post subject: Re: One CARB's PHDs, Dr. Tran
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:35 pm 
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warp2diesel wrote:
http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/afb/archives/033291.html

No insult intended to any legitimate PHDs, Clowns, or Jerks :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


The "magna cum laude" part was funny. GPA plays only a small role in terms of getting a PhD...rewards aren't for grades, they're for original research.


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