Would you try to tow this with your CRD?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:48 am

My Tandem axle Beaver Tail weighs 1940# empty and I have 12" brakes on both axles. Even in the relatively flat lands of Illinois where all I need to climb is river bluffs, one at a time is all I would haul. I would carefully place the Jeep onto the trailer and position it to have the ideal tong weight. Unlike the big travel trailers the frontal area would be not much more than your CRD and all you would be hauling is the weight load.
When I towed the VW Camper (I just sold) behind the my CRD, I had to shut off the ESC to keep it from acting weird. For some reason, ESC over compensated and I had to limit my speed to 50mph until I got to the flat straight free way.
Another option would be to rent a tow dolly from Uhaul and remove the rear drive shaft or put the transfer case in neutral on the old Jeeps. Since the rear axle is solid, towing with a tow dolly would not be an issue.
Since the EGT shoots up at higher RPMs, I would not try to pass up the Big Block Super Charged Corvette and go the minimum speed up the mountains.
Too bad you don't have EGT gauge.

Nice old Jeeps, good luck.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:05 pm

danoid wrote:

The tow ratings aren't by lawyers. They are determined by marketing ..

That doesn't give me any more confidence in the book tow rating.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:05 am

nursecosmo wrote:

Aren't the E-spec CRDs rated for 7000#s? If they can tow that much weight through the Alps with the same engine and tranny, I think that they can handle our little 8 degree passes in the states.

8 degree? Maybe in wisconsin.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:01 am

I don't think that there is an 8* hill anywhere in the whole state of Wisconsin. What kind of grades are you looking at in CO?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:26 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

I don't think that there is an 8* hill anywhere in the whole state of Wisconsin. What kind of grades are you looking at in CO?

Steepest grades are 10-11% on I70(despite what may be marked as max), greater on other roads which are not the interstate.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:58 pm

I'm fairly certain that the bridge between Savannah Ga and South Carolina on US-17 is at least a 15% grade. It's a mile long and gains 250 feet from the water. Anybody know how to calculate that out?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:29 pm

A ten foot change in elevation over a one hundred foot run is a 10% grade.

http://www.bookrags.com/research/grades ... y-mmat-02/

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:33 pm

250/5280 ~.04734848 = 4.7% grade

acrtan .047 = 2.7 Degrees

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:21 pm

Huh. Feels a LOT more steep, but even doubling those numbers b/c the height is attained in half the bridge's length (ya do have to come down) it still is an unimpressive grade by the numbers. Trucks struggle with this grade every day tho.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:28 pm

Anyone know what the most they let Semi Trucks climb? I have driven a few 10% grades in rental cars along the St Lawrence Seaway Coast in Canada, but these were old roads going through small towns.

danoid · **Posted:** Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:25 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

Quote:

but you were spinning that tiny engine much faster by keeping it out of OD.

Guess you never towed even the lightest load here in CO,even with your CRD you'll be locking out all the O/D's.Plus by locking out the O/D the engine only spun about 400rpm's higher then in O/D anyway.

Actually the CRD is about the only Chrysler vehicle I've heard of that goes through Eisenhower Pass without blinking during grade testing. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt. The trick is you have to go fast enough to keep the torque converter locked. Turbocharging is wonderful at altitude, you should try it.

RTStabler51 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:34 am

geordi wrote:

I'm fairly certain that the bridge between Savannah Ga and South Carolina on US-17 is at least a 15% grade. It's a mile long and gains 250 feet from the water. Anybody know how to calculate that out?

I love that bridge. When I was stationed in Beaufort I used to run my SHO up and down it when we would go down to Savannah.

Uffe · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:23 am

Find some place safe and try to tow it, we'll love to hear what you've got to say!

jinstall · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:56 am

Ok I have to ask all these people that keep speaking about the e-specs and towing. Have any of you been to europe and towed there? There are a few things that some of you do not understand about towing in europe. I have the e-spec hitch and wiring harness on a US Spec KJ in the US.

1. Towing speeds are limited to 100kph/62mph
2. most trailers use surge brakes
3. Vehicles and trailers have to have a bumper to bumper inspection every 2 years, it is not easy to pass.
4. You have to be licensed to tow a trailer, it means you have to go to school for it.
5. Trailers are designed to be loaded over the axle with minimum tongue weight.
6. Roads are narrower and smoother than in the US
7. Hitches are designed to keep the trailer level while towing, mine is super low
8. My hitch as well as others are not designed for WD, you can get it but it is not required, I have towed above 5000lb with no WD system with no issues, some on steep grades, 6% I think it was. Not an issue.
9. many people do not pump up their rear tires to handle the load they are towing and this causes the sidewalls of the tires to squirm under load. This causes the load to shift and unsetttles the rig.
10. I have had the wag and learned to shift the load and try again. I learn to place weight in the car when I tow it to help keep the excitement on the track not on the trip there and back.

I have a 06 KJ Sport with a German made 3500kg hitch, no WD added to it and a Mopar E-spec 7 pin harness. I use the hitch here in the US when I rent a trailer with no issues.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:03 pm

...totally incompatible. Try to hook up a trailer with Surge Brakes using a Weight Distribution Hitch will work against the operation of the surge brakes.

Illustration of how a Weight Distribution Hitch works, note the load going the wrong way to activate a Surge Brake Master.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:08 pm

Good drawing overall, but I think you have the line of force on the WDH chain going the right direction, but from the wrong fulcrum point. The end of the arm at the chain is not the fulcrum, its at the frame of the tractor. The purpose of a WDH is to try and straighten the hitch to be horizontal, moving the vertical fulcrum closer to the frame of both vehicles and away from the ball. The longer a ball mount is, the more pronounced a lever is created, so the front wheels of the tractor will be lifted with less weight on the ball. The WDH pulls downward (effectively adding MORE tongue weight onto the ball itself, perversely) but by locating the point-of-force as far as possible behind the ball, creates a "lifting" action between the bumper of the tractor and the frame of the trailer. If a WDH is tensioned too much on a trailer that is already horizontal, it could create what appears to be a negative-tongue-weight situation, which is equally as bad as the tongue pointing down from too much weight.

Again, this is to COUNTER the tongue weight, and end up with a HORIZONTAL PLANE between the frame of the tractor and the frame of the trailer... And the ground. The correct loading of a ball is what Jinstall said: Minimize the tongue weight. Ideally, it should be as close to ZERO as possible, neither negative nor positive. I've said before, this is DANG hard to do, so trailer logic in the USA is biased to "be safe and prevent lawsuits for the trailer builder" by biasing the trailers to 10% of their gross weight on the tongue. This guarantees that the ball catch (A weak point, admittedly) will not be getting pulled up on by a negative tongue weight, possibly causing a wreck from a loose trailer.... BUT it causes the potential for lifting the front wheels of the tractor with excessive tongue weight and causing sway.

I just got back on Friday from taking my 7.5x20' enclosed (And loaded!) box trailer to a shop to replace the ball with a pintle ring. The guys there weren't real thrilled with how the Jeep was sitting with the trailer, b/c the trailer was putting 1200 lbs of tongue weight onto the ball mount. Yea, I know that for certain, I scaled the trailer. The front was certainly light, and I am VERY not happy with how the trailer was designed, especially since I had intentionally loaded about 1000 lbs of tools as far behind the axles as possible to lighten the tongue. With a GVW of 6400 lbs, it obviously wasn't enough. That is being rectified now, and the addition of my motorcycle will add another 500 lbs behind the axles.

Anyway, the trailer handled just fine at 60mph behind the jeep, b/c I know how to drive it - SOFT. No sudden moves, and LOTS of reaction distance. It wasn't an optimal setup, but I needed to have the work done before I could pull it properly and with the electric brakes. I would NEVER do this for a long distance or at high speeds, its not safe, and I KNOW what can happen. I've lived it. Having load range E tires on my Jeep also helped a lot - The tires didn't even look like they were bulging at the roadway. 60psi 215/85/16 BF Goodrich Commercial T/A btw.

I'm going to have to move it briefly before it gets hooked to my RV in a few days, so I'll get a picture then of how its sitting. Would a WDH have helped me? Maybe. Air springs on the Jeep would have been better, and the best would have been NOT having 500 lbs of TRAILER DESIGN tongue weight to start with. This is a car hauler design, so maybe it is biased front-heavy b/c of loading a car would move the center of gravity too far to the rear... But even the guys at the trailer shop thought it was built a little funny.

The point - To prevent sway and make all the lines of force parallel to the ground for stopping and pulling... The frames and the ball ALL have to be horizontal. If they aren't, RELOAD THE TRAILER. Otherwise, you are risking disaster.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:44 pm

Pulling down on the toung behind the hitch lifts the hitch and tractor.
I wanted to show why surge brakes don't work with a WDH.
I feel sorry for anyone who tries to use a WDH with Surge Brakes.

BTW: Scandinavians feel insulted when they see a Warning Sticker.
To them it implies they are so Stupid that you need to tell them not to stick their head into the running Wood Chipper.

Perhaps that is part of the attitude of trailer laws.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:57 pm

Ufda, you betchya, ya sure got ta watch out for dem darn wood chippers.

Would you try to tow this with your CRD?

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