MH Provent SEGR both or something else

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:15 am

After Cleaning My Map sensor today I am thinnking I should plan my next mod to be something to keep the engine running clean. It now seems like it idles smother and hard acceleration hardly yealds any smoke like before.

I know the Provent will keep oil out of the intake. An segr will keep the egr valve closed more to keep soot out of the intake. which one would it be best to do, or which one is best to do first if I should do both?

Thanks

Lancer · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:37 am

Provent first probably, since this will also protect your intercooler. Then a GDE eco tune

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:15 am

Cool the Provent I can instal my self. I was thinking The SEGR mod for the same reason.

I have heard good things about the GDE Tune I would like to have that done maybe. Thing is its a bit pricey, I know they are devoloping and making it for a limited US market so there are fewer customer to spread the cost out to. THen my jeep is the only vehicle I have to drive. There isn't relable public transport to get me where I need to go so it will be very hard for me to send my ECU in and not be able to drive it.

flman · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:07 am

mikey1273 wrote:

Cool the Provent I can instal my self. I was thinking The SEGR mod for the same reason.

I have heard good things about the GDE Tune I would like to have that done maybe. Thing is its a bit pricey, I know they are devoloping and making it for a limited US market so there are fewer customer to spread the cost out to. THen my jeep is the only vehicle I have to drive. There isn't relable public transport to get me where I need to go so it will be very hard for me to send my ECU in and not be able to drive it.

For $50 more, you can do an ECU exchange, GDE sends a tuned ECU for you to swap, then return your old one to them. No down time

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:25 am

flman wrote:

For $50 more, you can do an ECU exchange, GDE sends a tuned ECU for you to swap, then return your old one to them. No down time

Thanks for that little bit, I did not know that they did that service. That removes one road block.

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:06 pm

flman wrote:

For $50 more, you can do an ECU exchange, GDE sends a tuned ECU for you to swap, then return your old one to them. No down time

Let's see thats $50 + $550 = $600 for a tune that still opens and closes the egr albeit for short intervals, or an SEGR kit for $100 + $350 for an InMotion tune who for a refundable deposit will send you a programmer to reflash your ecm through the odb2 port, and no more egr at all. Just laying out all the info...

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:25 pm

I need to learn more about the Segr and inmotion tunes.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:46 pm

I Provented and SEGR'd with excellent results.Both were gravy.
I'll bump the Provent thread so you get a good deal.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:47 pm

The GDE tune opens the EGR during aggressive tip-out maneuvers, only, which should not occur very often in normal driving conditions. As they explained it to me, in such situations the EGR valve is opening in the opposite direction... it is not sending soot into the CAC hoses like before.

You can go for the InMotion tune if you want, but the general understanding is that it gives you less of an mpg gain, more power, and a much greater likelihood of blowing out your TC. Factor in a TC replacement and you are starting to talk about ca. $1,000.

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:08 pm

stoutdog wrote:

The GDE tune opens the EGR during aggressive tip-out maneuvers, only, which should not occur very often in normal driving conditions. As they explained it to me, in such situations the EGR valve is opening in the opposite direction... it is not sending soot into the CAC hoses like before.

You can go for the InMotion tune if you want, but the general understanding is that it gives you less of an mpg gain, more power, and a much greater likelihood of blowing out your TC. Factor in a TC replacement and you are starting to talk about ca. $1,000.

Funny how people still get tranny shudder with the GDE tune too. Thought that was not supposed to happen? One thing I can tell you for sure is that the InMotion tune does not post crazy readings to the EVIC. The problem with the EGR valve opening at all is that no matter what GDE claims, everyone I know of who has had a EGR valve get stuck, gets it stuck partially open. I've read their(GDE) descriptions where they claim to have advanced injection timing anywhere from 8 to 13 degrees, in order to provide better fuel economy. That sounds rather extreme to me, after reading about cylinder head issues in diesels when injection timing is advanced too much. One of the issues can be extremely high cylinder pressure, which usually results in a blown head gasket, cracks in the cylinder head or in worst cases, bent connecting rods. One symptom of high cylinder pressure has already surfaced with a user on Jeepforum.

I noticed that one owner(dcxman) on Jeepforum has already experienced severe coolant leaks and a misfire. Dealer tells him he has a cracked head. Dcxman also has one glow plug which keeps burning out regardless of how many times its been changed. In one of his final posts he says he losing 3 or 4 ounces every day, without any signs of leakage externally on the motor itself. His decision is to drive it until it fails. It seems GDE was informed that he had a glow plug issue, but they told him it was no problem, they changed the glow plug and then flashed his PCM. Two hours later the glow plug failed again and then his coolant leakage problem started. GDE flashed a CRD with a known problem, his head gasket appears to have been blown, and now GDE informs him that it's not their tune. Ok.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:37 pm

if I am going to get either tune is the Provent still a good Idea?

I have been looking at the inmotion web site and I still dont know what paramaters they change to get more power or what ecomomy gains it may provide. the price is less than GDE but what will I get out of that.? more fuell economy? they dont say much just that most drivers see some. power improvements are about the same as GDE but did they think about our TC like GDE claims to have?

I am glad I am not ready to buy a tume today I still want to learn more about the choices I have

KJ thanks for bumping up the provent thread. I saved the page and will most likely be calling them

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:42 pm

mikey1273 wrote:

if I am going to get either tune is the Provent still a good Idea?

Yes by all means either do the elephant hose mod (search for EHM) or provent. It is truly amazing how much crap gets plumbed back into the turbo intake from the CCV. The first guy to make a bolt-on replacement CCV that actually works will sell plenty of them.

Lancer · **Posted:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:55 am

I agree with Loco - Provent is an excellent idea for the CRD whether you tune it or not. I'm out of work, so I can't afford any tune at the moment. As there is very little available in England for the CRD (one tuning box as far as I know), it is likely that I will have to import a tuning solution. Currently, everything I've read of the GDE tune points me that way, including the findings of a number of users on this forum, including one (I think) who has also used the Inmotion tune.

Also, I don't know what Inmotion are doing, but certainly GDE seem to be doing a lot of work and development on their tune and related products (turbo etc), and it seems from the posts that the tune is upgraded periodically to take account of users' findings.

The only thing I'd say about Loco's last comment about the problems that dcx has had and which GDE say is nothing to do with their tune, is that this happens; sometimes a number of things go wrong at once that are not necessarily linked. The tc shudder was never going to be cured by the tune: it occurs at a specific engine/road speed/ load combination(does to me anyway), and the only cure is a different tc - either the Euro Mopar or the Suncoast.

Incidentally, I am neither a mechanic or engineer, so what do I know? :mrgreen:

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:33 pm

Cool thanks for all the coments I am going to start looking for the parts to get the provent. A few questions. do I need to run the hoses over the engine for that? there is a space on the pasanger (right) that should have room for it but I'm not sure id there is a good mounting point. I would have to use far less hose that way. The other thing is I looked at how the provent is installed on Mann engines and other industral engines, the oil collected can be drained back to the engines sump. can we do that or at least collect it? I dont want to just dump it on the ground.

Lancer · **Posted:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:49 pm

There is a thread on the CRD tech pages about installing the Provent, and the bits needed. You have to take off the top (black) cover and run the hoses over from there - the page explains it much better than I can. Most people install it by the battery. The oil can't be drained back into the engine; you'd have to drill & tap into the block/sump. Someone did look at that some while ago, and concluded that it was a non-runner. Instead, you fix a tube from the drain outlet of the provent which is long enough to stick out the bottom of the engine bay. Someone has fixed a tap on the bottom of his, but I think most people just put a screw in the bottom of the tube and then drain it periodically into a drain can.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:13 pm

I've run ORM (unplug the MAF sensor so the EGR does not open) and GDE; I've also run the EHM and now the Provent. I REALLY like my current setup. As proof, I offer you this: I have not spent any money on upgrades since.

When I fist got this thing, money for upgrades was burning a hole in my pocket. Samco's, V6 airbox, tires, and - I bought an SEGR. In the year I've had this Jeep, I've spent easily over $1000 doing things to it.

I will say that the Provent offers more peace of mind over the EHM. Living in PA, I would be concerned about this. The EHM is cheap, but vents crankcase gases directly into the atmosphere and drips oil out of the hose that stains your driveway or garage. Plus it won't pass a visual inspection if your state has any more stringent laws on emissions.

The GDE tune offers more than just "reduced" EGR flow, also. I questioned them very closely about this, and posted their responses in the thread they started here when they initially offered the tune. If the EGR opens at all, it is only in one situation: if you have the pedal to the floor under load (not in neutral) and then lift all the way off the pedal. Then it opens for only a fraction of a second to bleed off residual exhaust energy so the turbo does not overspeed, since there is still exhaust energy flowing for a cylinder stroke after you lift off the pedal. Quite a handy use for the EGR, in my opinion - much better than its initial designed usage.

What I, and others, have experienced with the GDE tune is: increased mpg, increased driveability (better coasting, better turbo spool-up, better torque availability at all speeds) and, on top of that, more power. Not dragstrip power, but just that extra little bit of oomph to turn the corners of your mouth up. Granted, I bought it at the special rate they offered at the very beginning, but having it now, it is worth the $550 or $600. Their turnaround time is very quick - I mailed my ECU Monday and it was waiting at my door on Wednesday after work. If I had gotten it in the mail Saturday, I would have had it Tuesday. It was ~$30 to overnight it via USPS.

The only thing is I cannot compare it to the Inmotion tune - but it is my understanding through membership on this board that if you go with the Inmotion tune, you will experience torque converter shudder and eventual failure, since that tune does not modulate torque delivery, it only increases it. I read here one time as well from a member who had purchased Inmotion's economy tune for more mpg was disappointed with the result and wished they had just gone with the higher-power tune.

So, here is my personal recommendation. Immediately, before you drive the Jeep again, unplug the MAF sensor on the top of the airbox. You will get a CEL, but that's OK - no soot in the intake because the EGR valve will not open. If money is an issue, go to Home Depot and buy a 6 foot length of braided PVC 3/4 inch internal diameter hose and then stop by the grocery store and pick up a bottle of your favorite wine. Install the hose on the CCV puck and run it down along the driver's side of the engine, and take the cork from the wine and use it to plug the hose that was attached to the CCV puck. Glance at your inspection sticker to see when it is due to be inspected again, and then start saving money for a GDE tune and a Provent. If it is due for inspection within 3 months, do the Provent first, if it is 6+ months till inspection time, do the GDE tune first. Either way, you will help your engine and have the sense of accomplishment that comes from getting in there and doing it.

*edited OP's location reference. Where did I get NH from?

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:22 pm

Linewarbr

Thanks for your opinion. I want to do the provent soon. money is somewhat a problem since I just bought new tires and a battery last month but I'm recovering from that now, and can can get the provent maybe this month, still a GDE tune is not an option now, I will have to save up for that. I am more leaning to the GDE over the InMotion. I like that Keith is a member here, has PM'ed me and answered my questions. GDE offers info more about what setting they change and why. and they do trim the torque when the TC needs it. InMotion my I don't know, doubt it. even if he charges more than the other I think I feel more comfortable so far in getting the GDE tune.

I am In Pennsylvaina I don't know what getting an inspection is going to be like with a diesel. We have emissions checks on gassers but my owners card says diesel powered is EXEMPT. I don't know if they will check the emissions items are there and not changed or not. I know they will check the tires, breaks, lights, exaust system, steering and suspension as part if the normal anual safety inspection. I am not due untill june for that and in the past I like to go in a month early so that way if for same reason it fails I have time to fix it before my badge expires and you get a free recheck in 30 days if you return to the shop that failed you.

I am hesitant to do anything thats going to look like it is totally not suposed to be there and leave it that way.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:39 pm

It was like that when I got mine inspected here in Louisiana. They used to plug a scanner into the OBD II port on my gassers, but with the diesel, the tech just stared under the hood for a few minutes, closed it and gave me a sticker and sent me on my way. I didn't have the EHM at that time yet, though. I was running ORM - just plugged the MAF back in and cleared the code with my $100 Wal-Mart scanner before going to the inspection shop.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:26 pm

I only have a anual safety inspection sticker in the lower left of the windshield now. on gassers here they put the emissions sticker to the right of that, I have nothing where it would be. To me that means there is no official check.

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:29 pm

Lancer wrote:

I agree with Loco - Provent is an excellent idea for the CRD whether you tune it or not. I'm out of work, so I can't afford any tune at the moment. As there is very little available in England for the CRD (one tuning box as far as I know), it is likely that I will have to import a tuning solution. Currently, everything I've read of the GDE tune points me that way, including the findings of a number of users on this forum, including one (I think) who has also used the Inmotion tune.

Also, I don't know what Inmotion are doing, but certainly GDE seem to be doing a lot of work and development on their tune and related products (turbo etc), and it seems from the posts that the tune is upgraded periodically to take account of users' findings.

The only thing I'd say about Loco's last comment about the problems that dcx has had and which GDE say is nothing to do with their tune, is that this happens; sometimes a number of things go wrong at once that are not necessarily linked. The tc shudder was never going to be cured by the tune: it occurs at a specific engine/road speed/ load combination(does to me anyway), and the only cure is a different tc - either the Euro Mopar or the Suncoast.

Incidentally, I am neither a mechanic or engineer, so what do I know? :mrgreen:

My point exactly, but if you read the several infomercials...err..I mean threads about GDE impressions you might think there is a cure for everything...

MH Provent SEGR both or something else

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