Green Diesel Tech Support Thread

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:47 pm

Hey Darby,

I didn't miss it, but I guess it could have gotten lost in the walls of text that have been posted in this thread. :lol:

I read through your thread, but I guess I did miss where you mentioned that the problems were only in the low rpm range. That does sound a LOT like what I'm dealing with. I'm also wondering if the vacuum box might have gotten some micro-cracks in it when it got broken off at the mount. The seal might have suffered from a shock, who knows.

UFO, thanks for the offer. I'll take you up on that, check your PMs in a minute.

fastRob · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:33 am

My dirty MAP exhibited problems something like that.
Just wanting the powerband to come on strong a little earlier.
Do you do a lot of city driving? Just got back from a long trip and my fuel mileage went up.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:16 am

Thanks for the ideas Rob, they might be helpful to the next person with these symptoms.

For me... Cue the 'When it rains, it pours' music.

So I got up this morning, figuring on bypassing the vacuum tank and running the supply line directly into the boost solenoid before I left for work. I go outside to find that not only is it STILL raining (72 continuous hours now) and 42 degrees... But that my Sat dish was blown off the roof by the 60+ winds. Central Virginia isn't on my list of fun places right now.

So I bypassed the vacuum thing anyway, and gave it a try as I went to the hardware store for parts. AS SOON AS I STARTED THE ENGINE I now could hear a high pitched whooshing that tied in with engine RPM. OK, I'm thinking that the turbo is actually working more efficiently now, and I can actually hear it. I usually can't unless I concentrate on it.

No... The power was even less than before, and the smoke was worse. In addition, now the boost gauge was reading a lot lower, about 10 psi was the max. I figured out really fast, that I must have an air leak. Yep... The final intake hose had a 2-inch long split in it right at the bend closest to the FCV. Right at the bottom of the hose too, impossible to feel without removing the battery.

I'm not sure how long this thing has been building up, but it RAPIDLY progressed into a full-blown leak today so that the boost topped out at 5 psi on the way to work, and the Jeep handled like a cement truck. It has been cleaned with brake cleaner and wrapped securely with Gorilla tape now, and driving home on the STOCK ECU was like driving a new car. Getting up to 70mph, boost was actually holding north of 20, instead of the 15 that I usually see, even with the GDE. I still have the vacuum bypassed, one step at a time. Next is back to the GDE ECU, before I drive to work tomorrow. I'm gonna have to run the taped hose for a bit until I can get a replacement obviously.

I just find it VERY interesting that the whooshing noise started instantly after I made an electrical change, and without a max-boost event to blow the hose. Last night when the boost hit 32 psi... No unusual noises. I had a boost hose pop on my VW TDI, so I know what that sounds like, and this was similar, AFTER it started making noise today. But last night... Just lousy performance, when it MUST have had a hole in it. The VW had a tiny hole that I had taped (really dumb attempt to install a boost gauge tube into the hose) that lasted for months before splitting the hose end to end one day... When I was at max boost and 90+ mph. But to core this hose at near-idle? Weird.

tigafila · **Posted:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:13 pm

Geordi, did you ever get to the bottom of your overboost/limp mode situation? Thanks, Tigafila

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:38 pm

Sort of... As you might guess from the above post, the power loss issue was from the boost hose having a hole in it. I suspect that the hole had been working its way through from the inside for quite some time, until it finally blew through the outside wall of the hose. I haven't pulled off the turbo-to-CAC hose yet to check THAT one, but they both had the same mileage on them, so it stands to reason that both would have developed holes from the oil contamination at roughly the same time.

I'm still occasionally having the same low-power-then-it-zooms away nonsense from before, but much less frequently now. I haven't yet changed the boost control solenoid, but I suspect that IF there isn't a hole in the other hose... Then the solenoid is the problem. But checking the hose is cheaper. (free) so I will do that first once I get a few minutes.

tigafila · **Posted:** Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:12 am

Geordi, I've had this problem with ours for a long time, like years. it's in the shop for probably the last warranty trip (67k) and they are putting another turbo on today (the third or fourth since it's been doing this). They always do the turbo first, then randomly start throwing other parts at it but nobody has been able to get to the bottom of it. On yours I really can't figure a leak in a cac hose causing an overboost code can you? Once I really thought I had fixed mine, I found a tear in the inlet hose between the air box and turbo. I got pretty excited thinking maybe that was letting air in that hadn't been metered by the mass airflow sensor and thus causing the overboost code/limp mode but no such luck. I wish there was some way to figure it out and it be fixed for good. They've also replaced the solenoids, intercooler, cac hoses, map sensor and probably some other things on mine over the years to try and fix this. I would always give up and need the vehicle back but only after they had it for 1 to 2 weeks. I'll let you know if this tech at this different dealer gets a handle on it. Tigafila

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:53 pm

Wow... So you must be the guy who got all the warranty stuff I was never allowed to have. 4 turbos? :shock:

That alone is a travesty, such a waste of parts!

The overboost in your case might be cured with a GDE tune, as they adjust the limits that make it throw codes. Mopar was too cautious on those sensitivities... And not enough on the quality of the converters in the transmission. Genius.

I would have pointed at the solenoids, but having those replaced already... I don't know. Here is what I suspect is happening: The turbo is vacuum controlled, and the servo opens and closes the vacuum valve to change the vanes of the turbo itself. With stomping on the go-pedal, comes a big burst of power into the turbo's inlet, which 'spikes' the boost level. The sensor tells the servo to react, but it doesn't happen instantly, so the spike *could* zip over the computer's pre-set limit, which is what triggers the overboost code and the limp mode.

On mine, the scanner reads that the code and snapshot usually takes place at about 52-55mph during a full throttle run. Whats interesting is that I don't think that is when the high point actually is. My gauge is plumbed in on the outlet of the CAC, so I see the actual pressure. It gets to its peak between the 2nd-3rd shift at around 45 or so. Can the computer be lagging that much? Maybe that factors in somehow b/c the data buss is so busy / overworked during a full throttle run?

My boost peaks at about 30 usually, but I haven't done a full throttle run since I replaced the boost hose. I don't want to stress the new setup just yet. Its a combination of silicone hose and PVC... Dang PVC is slippery and pops out too easy. At some point I will take it apart and 'rough up' the ends to hopefully stop that from happening.

tigafila · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:45 am

Geordi, I'm the guy that got your and every other denied turbo! I got a call from the dealer about 11am saying the turbo came in but yesterday the tech pointed out to the service writer that three of the four studs holding the turbo to the manifold were stickinout 1/2" more than they should be. As it turns out when they went to replace the turbo today 2 of the 3 offending studs broke off and they also found the trans dipstick broken in half from the last butcher that worked on it! So it will be tomorrow before they call me to tell me the turbo didn't fix it and they need to throw more parts at it. At first I thought the same, but started to figure out what you're figuring out. For example, if you set the cruise on mine at say 65, come to a long grade you will get a check engine light and limp mode. If you "crowd" it (keep increasing the accelerator gradually) while accelerating to keep it under a load it will throw a CEL and limp mode. If you put it to the wood and hold it you will also get CEL/limp BUT.... like you are noticing it happens not in the lowest gears where the boost would be interrupted by a shift, but it happens in the gears that take a little longer to accelerate through thus holding the boost high for longer. I don't believe it's the peak boost that's causing the condition, I believe it's that the boost under certain circumstances may be slightly higher than allowable in the map for too long a period of time. To explain my thought further, lets say at x rpm, at y accelerator input and under z load the map in the computer expects to see 13 pounds of boost but no more than 14 pounds for say 15 seconds and it actually sees 15 pounds during that time. I just don't know what can cause more boost than the computer expects to see. Green Diesel Engineering are you out there???? Anyone have any input? Heeeeellllllp!

linewarbr · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:50 am

Has the steal. . . I mean, dealer, tried replacing the MAP sensor yet?

tigafila · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:35 am

Linewarbr, yes, at one time they said they replaced the map sensor, did they really? I don't know. I have trust issues when it comes to people working on my vehicle and not fixing it right the first time......or fixing it at all!

linewarbr · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:50 am

There is just absolutely no reason that they should have replaced the turbo four times. It seems obvious to me that it is not a mechanical error. The difinition of insanity id doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I'm just guessing here, but I would say a software error in the ECU, or possibly a bad ECU. I'm wondering if possibly the last time they reflashed your ECU, if maybe there was a power surge or an otherwise faulty connection that caused the program download to go awry. You could try asking them to make sure you have the latest software on your ECU and maybe that will point them in the right direction.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

tigafila,

Could you provide a list of error codes that have repeatily occured on your vehicle? For sure you are getting P0234, are there any others?

Sometimes this can be a very hard code to diagnose and throwing parts is a brute force method. It is very difficult to find the problem source without recording several engine parameters while the issue is occuring.

There is the possibility that nothing is wrong with your vehicle and the computer is flagging a false code. This issue occurred on our 2006 for a while and we changed the turbo on it, yet the issue still appeared. We ended up changing the turbo governing to minimize the potential of recognizing this fault, unless a real issue is present. Now, if the boost is over the setpoint, the PIDs are set stronger to open the vanes faster. We see a good amount of variability in the turbo vane-actuator assembly and vacuum system, so the stronger governing is helping to hide build variation.

We were hoping the tune would fix Geordi's vehicle...he may have some other issues, but hopefully the drive ability is better and no more codes in the future.

Have you visually checked the following items for integrity and functionality? air filter, air system connections, functional FCV, MAF, EGR leaks, etc.

Once your vehicle is running we can get the dealer to run some quick diagnostic checks and provide engine data with DRB. This will help to pinpoint the root cause.

Let us know how it progresses. Thanks!

tigafila · **Posted:** Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:06 am

GDE thanks for joining the discussion. I first posted about this problem in '07! Other than a couple of times when there were other things going on (blown cac hose for example or recently a couple of bad glow plugs) P0234 is the only code. If you vary the accelerator position during moderate to hard acceleration, no problem. If you forget the idiosyncracy and plant your foot 1/2 to 2/3 or more and leave it there, CEL/limp.

"Have you visually checked the following items for integrity and functionality? air filter, air system connections, functional FCV, MAF, EGR leaks, etc."
Yes to all except EGR, do you mean the piping or the pintle? In either case I'm not sure but if it were the pintle leaking I would think it would idle poorly similar to a gasser.

The dealer should be calling me in the morning and I'm expecting "there's something else going on" or "it's all set" but they haven't driven/duplicated it. If we knew for sure that your tune would fix this issue I'd feel a lot more comfortable. Getting your tune is on the list, but things like food, clothing, and shelter seem to be keeping it from the top!! Thanks to everyone for your input, I'll keep you posted, Tigafila

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

For EGR leaks we are referring to the piping. Have you tried the ORM mod and unplug the MAF sensor to see if the drive ability is better? This should make it idle better if the problem is partly caused by EGR, unless it is stuck open.

It certainly sounds like the fault detetion timer. In mid thottle the overboost code is fairly tight, so 2-4 psi above the setpoint for longer than 4 or 8 seconds depending on the rpm/load will set the code.

If you lived in a "Jeep down by the river", we would already have the shelter part taken care of.

Let us know when it is back up and running at the dealer so we can ask them to supply some engine data to analyze. Thanks!

tigafila · **Posted:** Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:54 am

GDE, now that you mention it I have tried ORM several times and it actually seemed to set the code/limp considerably easier than when plugged in. I completely forgot to mention that till you did :oops:

. Are there any questions you want me to ask them when they do call? As far as a CRD down by the river, no way the 145 pound Fila Brasileiro, wife, and I would all fit in the libby, what with the Fila's gas and snoring and my snoring :lol:

. Although being that this is my wife's daily driver if it doesn't get fixed I may be alone living in a CRD down by the river. I'll keep you posted, thanks, Tigafila

Magnum · **Posted:** Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:25 pm

Can I send my gde ecu back and get the updated features ie fuel gauge fix and viscous heater shutoff temp

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The early adopters can get an updated tune at no cost. Just send us an email on our support line so we can verify if the tune needs to be updated. The lastest features have been released since 31 October. We hope you are enjoying the CRD!

Tinman · **Joined:** Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:45 am **Posts:** 308

I made a by pass with just wire. 3 short peices with the ends soldered that I stuck in the correct holes. Tuck it out of the way so the wires won't get pulled out. Run ours this way for months.

tigafila · **Posted:** Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:07 am

Hi all, I've been hesitant to update you all. We picked the CRD up from the dealer Saturday. We had a busy first part of the week and didn't really get a chance to test it very well but it is my wife's DD so I kept bugging her. All she would say is "it seems to have more power but I can't be sure it's fixed". Tuesday she told me she was able to really get on it to pass a semi, had it going 80, exciting but I still wasn't convinced. Yesterday AM I re-installed my home made provent/ehm, took it for a drive to warm it up, and once warm I began flogging it :twisted:

! I couldn't get the boost code or limp mode so I disconnected the maf and took it back out (as I recalled in an earlier post in this thread orm made the overboost code/limp mode come on easier) and still no issue! I can't explain nor understand why I've had this problem since '07 and 3 turbos and many other parts thrown at it under warranty didn't fix it but the fourth turbo did, can any of you? The only thing they did besides the turbo is fix 4 cross threaded studs to mount the turbo. I didn't see them but supposedly the studs were cross threaded so bad there were gaps under the nuts meaning the turbo was possibly loose. I never heard any exhaust or boost leaks. I'll admit I'm no diesel expert but not too long ago I was a pretty good tech on gassers, college degree for it and everything, but could the cross threaded studs/possible loose turbo cause the symptoms/overboost code I was getting? Was the fourth turbo the charm? Or is the illness in remission only to return when I least expect it? Please fire away with any thoughts, etc. I'm taking it on an 800 mile trip tomorrow and that will also be a good test. Thanks everyone, Tigafila

tigafila · **Posted:** Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:57 pm

Just got back from an 800 mile trip and not one issue with cel/limp mode. While I still don't understand I'm not complaining, I just hope this fix isn't short lived. I would still love some input/opinions as to why this 4th turbo and new studs fixed a problem the other 3 turbos didn't thanks to everyone, Tigafila

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