Pinion Seal Replacement HELP! Plus fluid change...

dsmithwc04 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:49 pm

My wife's Libby CRD had an issue with the rear end binding up and not allowing the vehicle to move more than 10 feet. I popped it in 4WD and drove 25mph to the local stealership. Apparently my wife just had the spare put on to replace a flat drivers side rear tire and the size was different. They also noticed the pinion seal was leaking and the diff was low on fluid so they refilled it and fixed the flat and reinstalled it. So now I'm going to go ahead and replace the pinion seal, change both front/rear diffs and Transfer Case and also flush the auto tranny.

So, any help with replacing the pinion seal? I'm sure the diffs will be easy enough to place the fluid (mobile 1 75w90) but never have replaced the pinion seal. I'm sure the basic idea is to drop the drive shaft and pull out the pinion then replace it and reconnect drive shaft but has anybody done this and maybe even have pics???

I hear the transfer case has a drain plug and fill plug so that doesn't sound difficult. Anybody disagree?

And then the tranny flush. Since dropping the pan only changes 5 qts and it has a total of 14.1 qts in the system including the TC i really want to completely flush it. The local shops want $170 bucks so I want to do this myself and I don't trust shops anymore with doing any work when i know I will do it with TLC. I heard that some people are using the plumbing of the system and allowing the tranny oil pump to push out the old fluid and pull in new fluid via containers hooked up to the oil tubing of the system. Anybody have a detailed walkthrough of this and maybe some pics? Thanks.

P.S. Awaiting the GDE Eco tune to arrive and hoping to save the wife some money.

dsmithwc04 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:39 pm

Nobody have any tips at all? I really need to get this libby fixed so I can stop worrying about the wife driving it.

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:53 pm

dsmithwc04 wrote:

My wife's Libby CRD had an issue with the rear end binding up and not allowing the vehicle to move more than 10 feet. I popped it in 4WD and drove 25mph to the local stealership. Apparently my wife just had the spare put on to replace a flat drivers side rear tire and the size was different. They also noticed the pinion seal was leaking and the diff was low on fluid so they refilled it and fixed the flat and reinstalled it. So now I'm going to go ahead and replace the pinion seal, change both front/rear diffs and Transfer Case and also flush the auto tranny.

So, any help with replacing the pinion seal? I'm sure the diffs will be easy enough to place the fluid (mobile 1 75w90) but never have replaced the pinion seal. I'm sure the basic idea is to drop the drive shaft and pull out the pinion then replace it and reconnect drive shaft but has anybody done this and maybe even have pics???

I hear the transfer case has a drain plug and fill plug so that doesn't sound difficult. Anybody disagree?

And then the tranny flush. Since dropping the pan only changes 5 qts and it has a total of 14.1 qts in the system including the TC i really want to completely flush it. The local shops want $170 bucks so I want to do this myself and I don't trust shops anymore with doing any work when i know I will do it with TLC. I heard that some people are using the plumbing of the system and allowing the tranny oil pump to push out the old fluid and pull in new fluid via containers hooked up to the oil tubing of the system. Anybody have a detailed walkthrough of this and maybe some pics? Thanks.

P.S. Awaiting the GDE Eco tune to arrive and hoping to save the wife some money.

The t case is super easy. there are two hex plugs. make sure you pull the fill plug before the drain just in case one decides to strip out. Also, use ATF+4

The front is super easy, it had a drain on the bottom and a plug on the diff cover.

The rear pinion seal shouldn't be to hard. This is from the FSM for my KK. Both the KJ and KK have the same diff, however you have a yoke while I have a flange

1. With vehicle in neutral, position vehicle on hoist.
2. Remove wheel and tire assemblies.
3. Mark a reference line across the axle flange (1) and propeller shaft flange (2).
4. Remove companion flange bolts and remove propeller shaft.
5. Remove brake calipers and rotors to prevent any drag.

6. Rotate companion flange three or four times and verify flange rotates smoothly.
7. Record pinion torque to rotating (1) with an inch pound torque wrench (2) for installation reference.

8. Hold pinion flange (1) with Holder C-3281 (2) and remove pinion nut.
9. Mark a line across the pinion shaft and flange for installation reference.

10. Remove pinion flange (1) with Puller 8992 (2).
11. Remove pinion seal with a seal puller.

Install

1. Apply a light coating of gear lubricant on the lip of pinion seal.
2. Install new pinion seal with Installer C-4076-B (1) and Handle C-4735 (2).

3. Install flange on the pinion shaft with the reference marks aligned.
4. Install flange (1) with Installer C-3718 (2).

5. Install new pinion nut. Hold flange (1) with Holder C-3281 (2) and tighten pinion nut to 285 N·m (210 ft. lbs.). Rotate pinion several revolutions to ensure the bearing rollers are seated.
NOTE: Do not exceed the minimum torque 285 N·m (210 ft. lbs.) when installing the pinion nut at this point.

6. Measure pinion torque to rotate (1) with an inch pound torque wrench (2). Pinion torque to rotating should be equal to recorded reading plus an additional 0.56 N·m (5 in. lbs.).
If pinion torque to rotate is low, tighten pinion nut in 6.8 N·m (5 ft. lbs.) increments until pinion torque to rotating is achieved.

CAUTION: Never loosen pinion nut to decrease pinion bearing rotating torque. If pinion torque to rotating is exceeded, a new collapsible spacer must be installed. Failure to follow these instructions will result in damage to the axle.

7. Install propeller shaft (1) with axle flange (2) installation reference marks aligned.
8. Install rear brake components.

A new nut is a must!

As far as the trans goes, $170 for a ATF+4 flush is a good deal...

dsmithwc04 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:45 am

The pinion seal removal / install seams to require a bunch of specific tools. Any way this can be done without them? Otherwise it would be cheaper to have the dealership install it than to buy all those tools...

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:49 am

Remember this is for a KK that doesn't have a yoke like you have. Most of the special tools are just pullers that you don't need. And as far as the installers go, other items around the house can be used as well. PM tjkj2002 as he is one of the master KJ mechanics on this board. I also think there is a install thread somewhere. I'll see if I can find it here in a few...

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:53 am

Here

tjkj2002 wrote:

Like what,changing the pinion seal is like a 30min job.

You will need a in/oz torque wrench to make sure you do not over-torque the pinion nut,stupid crush sleeves :evil:

,but yes it's as simple as removing the driveshaft(mark so it goes on the same way it came off),spinning the pinion nut off(where my impact comes in handy,no need to hold the yoke),pull the yoke,pop the seal out,install seal,put yoke back on and torque.

A large pipe wrench can be used to hold the yoke if you do not have use of a impact.

dsmithwc04 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:10 am

Thanks so much for that. I will take pictures when I get the garage cleaned out and the libby in for repairs so nobody has to ask about the pinion seal and more importantly exchanging the rear/front diffs.

I guess I will pm tjkj2002 about flushing the tranny.

Again, thanks for your help!

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:20 am

Not a problem

If you need any thing else let me know...........

Straight6Jeff · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:04 am

In order to change the pinion seal, you will also need a new crush sleeve. That is teh component that preloads the pinion bearings. Get two of them, becuase if you overshoot the torque mark, you cannot simply back the nut off....the sleeve is a one-shopt deal. You will need an inch-pound torque wrench to measure the preload.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:05 am

tjkj - specifically recommended getting a tranny flush done at a shop
it cleans all the old fluid out and it's a seriously expensive machine

(he need to log on so that we don't have to keep repeating what he said)

tjkj2002 wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

Somehow, years ago, the rumor got going around that by flushing a tranny it would cause catastrophic failure. My theory is that it was started by some transmission repair shops who would rather do a rebuild for $2000, than a flush for $150. All sorts of ridiculous theories have been given as reasons not to do a flush such as that it "washes the "grit" out of the clutches", or gets "chunks" into the valve body. The fact is that most who claim that it is detrimental have no idea what the process of flushing involves. A flush is done in one of two ways. The inferior way is with a machine that recirculates a constant volume of fluid and the old fluid gets diluted with fresh but not 100% gets replaced with new. The better way is with a machine which replaces all of the old fluid with new in one shot. Neither one of these machines can push fluid backwards through the check valves of the transmission. It is not done under any appreciable pressure, so there is no danger of blowing out any seals or damaging valves.

The idea that the Transmission fluid should not be flushed is paramount to saying that changing one quart of engine oil at a time is all the engine needs. Dropping the pan and changing the filter will give you 3-4 quarts of new fluid out of the 14 total quarts of fluid. In my opinion 30K miles is a good interval for a filter change and 60k a good time for a flush but I have nothing to base this on other than how my fluid looks at that time.

X2................

The key with transmission flushes is to start early and do often.About every 30,000 miles is a good schedule,I personally flush mine every 15,000miles and change the filters every 30,000miles(flush 1st then change the filters).You can not do a "reverse flush" on a auto trans,the pressure required would blow everything including the machine.A place that does a true flush does cost $$$ because you should go through 2X's what the transmission holds at least to make sure you get all the old fluid out.So for a 545RFE or 45RFE that would be about 28qts of ATF+4(which isn't cheap to begin with).

Can a flush be harmful? Yes it can if you have 100,000+ miles and never had a trans service before but not always will it hurt.Where I work we use a chemical(BG fluids) 1st to clean the trans then cycle through new fluid,on higher mileage transmissions I for go the chemical and just do the flush after the customer is aware of what might happen.

Because of the high cost of the good flush machines this is one job I do not do myself and allow the dealership to do since they use the correct fluid and it comes with a 12month/12,000mile warranty also,well worth the cost in my opinion.

dsmithwc04 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:34 pm

Well, what about dropping the pan, changing out the filters and then siphoning oil out of the fill/dipstick? Then i could just replace the pan and add hopefully 9-10 qts instead of just 4-5. Does this sound reasonable?

tommudd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:11 pm

dsmithwc04 wrote:

Well, what about dropping the pan, changing out the filters and then siphoning oil out of the fill/dipstick? Then i could just replace the pan and add hopefully 9-10 qts instead of just 4-5. Does this sound reasonable?

The dipstick goes down into the pan so not sure why you would drop the pan and then siphon trans fluid out that way if you already have the pan off ?

dsmithwc04 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:49 pm

Indeed, after dropping the pan and changing the filters I could just siphon out a few quarts whenever I do an engine oil change that way new fluid is always being introduced. I will still replace the tranny filters every 30k miles so this should be a good regiment for maintenance . Anybody think this is sufficient?

FreedomKJ · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:04 pm

dsmithwc04 wrote:

Indeed, after dropping the pan and changing the filters I could just siphon out a few quarts whenever I do an engine oil change that way new fluid is always being introduced. I will still replace the tranny filters every 30k miles so this should be a good regiment for maintenance . Anybody think this is sufficient?

I'd rather spend $150 every couple years versus not having it flushed and running the risk of having to buy a new transmission. They aren't cheap.

dsmithwc04 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:33 pm

Thanks for the response but 150 bucks? You sure they are replacing the filters? The problem with shops doing work like this is you never know what they are actually doing. I know for a fact that dealerships have done engine oil changes and left the previous filter on. And they do the same with the transmission as well. Replacing the filters and 1/3 of the fluid and then doing 1/3 of the fluid every 6k miles does seam to sound like a decent idea to keep from letting any shop touch my tranny. Still haven't made up my mind if anybody else wants to chime in.

XJMA · **Posted:** Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:58 pm

In terms of tranny change, everyone has different opinions, but I am a big fan of just dropping the pan for a change (yes, it doesn't change all the fluid, but it improves the fluid overall) and do the same thing with a filter change. On the wifes KJ, it took three times to get the correct filter!! Wasn't that big of a deal though, we just changed the fluid a bunch of times!! In addition to the wifes KJ I own two lifted XJs (well kind of three, but that's a long story, there are three lifted XJs that live at my house) and all the XJs have AW4 autos, high mileage and get beat like they owe me money. I change the fluid occasionally and the filters every now and then, depending on how the tranny is feeling. I have coolers on all the trannies too, which prolongs the fluid life and the life of the tranny. I just drop the pan, don't worry about getting all the fluid. You replace a good enough majority of the fluid with one drop of the pan to make improve the fluid overall. If the fluid is really bad, I may drop the pan again after a short drive. You'll never get all the fluid, but that's fine. My 99XJ on Q78 super swampers (36") has 145k on it and my 96 XJ with 32" MTs has 154k on it. The third XJ in the yard is an 88 with ~130k and 33" TSLs. We have a lot of XJ guys in my jeep club (we don't discriminate, it's just how it is) and there is a group of guys that LOVE the standards. I like stick, but the AW4s are so good, I say screw dealing with the stick! All of them have had to replace the entire tranny, some multiple times!! That's not including having to drop the tranny to do throw out bearings and clutches. Also, I had an 89 MJ on 31s that I sold years ago, bought it with ~98k and sold it with ~195k on it, and the AW4 was a happy camper. Tranny cooler and changed oil, sometimes filter too.

In terms of the pinion, if you're not very experienced you may want someone else to do this. I don't know the axle in your specific kk (or whatever it is) but it probably has a crush sleeve (chrysler LOVES them). One guy mentioned an inch/lb torque wrench too, and that requires pulling the shafts, pullign the carrier and having only the pinion in the axle. I have all dana axles that don't have crush sleeves now, although I have dealt with the 8.25 and haven't blown it up!! Some say you need to replace crush sleeve no matter what, while others say you can get away torquing it correctly.

With the forewarning, I will explain to you how I would do it if it were mine. No warranty implied or otherwise!!

Remove driveshaft. Wire brush the 5/16 bolts that hold the straps on to get the crud off of them so that they go in better. These bolts like to break and it sucks when they do. With a strap type yoke, you usually are screwed and need a new yoke.
Anyways, with the shaft out of the way, mark the nut location relative to the pinion. You'll need a paint marker or white-out to do this. Bang that nut off with an impact gun. If you don't have an impact gun, put a breaker bar on it, get in, put it in 4 with the breaker bar wedged against the frame and drive (I forget forward or reverse) and that will break the nut loose. Again, no warranty on that method....attempt at your own risk!! It's worked for me many a times in the middle of the woods. Anyways, gently pull the yoke off and clean off the surface that the seal rides on. If there is a deep groove, oil will get past the seal so you may need a new yoke to make it seal properly. Be careful with this sealing surface, don't scratch it!!
There is a metal lip on the seal that sticks out past the snout of the pinion part of the center housing. Put a screwdriver on that lip and bang it forward towards the front of the jeep, away from the axle. Gently pry the seal out with a screwdriver being careful not to gouge anything!! The seals some out very easily!!
Clean everything up and lube up your new seal. lube the part that is going to touch the pinion with grease or oil, as well as the part that will go into the housing. Line it up and with a little mallet, gently tap it in, only tapping on the outside metal lip. Tap it in evenly until it seats fully. Sometimes a wooden block or something will help prevent hitting the delicate part of the seal, especially if you don't have a tiny little hammer.
Now lube up the pinion, put it back on, and start the nut and hang tighten.
You'll want to check the exact spec but they're usually in the 120-150 ft/lb range. Again, I don't know the specific axle you've got, so you need to verify that number. Set your torque wrench and go to town. When it clicks, check to see if the marks line up. If it's off, redo it and try to get it dead on or within a few millimeters. If you can't get it dead on, you'll want to bring it to dealer or mechanic asap and they'll have to verify that the pinion bearing preload is correct. If it's on or very close, you're good to go.

Pinion Seal Replacement HELP! Plus fluid change...

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