Looking to purchase a Liberty...Help a newb out.

99_XC600 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:47 pm

Hello Everyone - Been looking through the forums for about a week now and it looks like you guys have a great site and awesome members. Hoping you can help me out.

I'm in the market to purchase a Liberty for my wife (2002-2007). The vehicle will server as my wife's daily driver and my occasional tow vehicle during the winter. 2 Sleds and an open 2 place trailer (Aprox 2000 pounds).

I normally would have ruled out any small SUV as a tow vehicle. However my opinion was changed last year when I went up to Northern Vermont to go riding and we used his 02 Sport 5 spd as a tow vehicle. To say I was shocked at how capable this thing was 2 towing the trailer would have been an understatement. The Liberty had no issues with it and our avg speed was 65-70 MPH the whole 3 hour trip. So anyway, I'm in the market to purchase a Liberty.

For the most part we are going to be looking at vehicles with 60,000 - 85,000 miles on them. Now being a former SUV / Truck owner myself. I understand that you will be need to replace the front end components. IE: Ball Joints, Tie Rod Ends, Wheel Bearings. This is part of owning a 4 wheel drive vehicle. However are there any real any major issues with the Liberty's to watch out for and to be actively seeking when purchasing?

I've always been under the impression as long as the drive train is solid. You can maintain the "wear" items as needed and make it longer than 100,000 miles.

What should be on the proverbial checklist when going out to look?
What years are better as far as tranny's.
Is the automatic transmission really that much better for towing considering I won't even be coming close to the 3500 pound limit on the manual and 5000 for the automatic?

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:32 pm

welcome to the forum.

towing with a liberty should be no issue with the right equipment. if you find one that has the factroy towing package it will include a tranny cooler and extra fan.

I bought mine to tow a small camper that I have yet to buy. I have towed a utility trailer several times with different loads. My CRD pulled that like it wasn't there. I have an automatic, that is all they offered with the diesel engine in the US, it is rated to tow up to 5000 lbs. Manuals are rated for less, 3500 i think which will meet your needs. I would like to have a manual myself cus I enjoy driving them but wanted the most towing capacity and fuel economy.

you should have no problem finding a good KJ with a V6 engine, the diesel is tougher to find. I used Autotrader.com and cars.com to search. I liked Autotrader best. I went with a Limited but looked at sports too. the seats in the sports in some years stain easy, the leather is very nice.

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:44 am

Things to look for when shopping:

1) 2002 and early 2003 models came with the 45RFE transmission out of the Dodge Ram [good for towing]
2) Same year time frame also gets you: Slightly taller springs (3/4"), 18 gallon gas tank, different power-steering profile and rear drum brakes that function as a killer parking brake.
3) Some early run 2003's and all KJ's after April 2003 came with 42RLE transmission which does the job... Those vehicles also get rear disk brakes, 19 gallon tank and shorter springs.
4) 2005+ MY's have a known window regulator problem resulting in failures. There is a fix now, but it costs you money at the dealership. 2005-2006 MY Liberty’s are most affected by this.
5) The rear body seam behind the flipper glass, on the back of the KJ, is rust starts forming. Also check the door seams on the rear doors. Poor drainage at the rear door area makes it a common area for rust. Make sure you look at both areas so you know what shape the body is in.
6) Renegade models came with a 160A alternator. Regular trucks came with 132A alternator. 132A is enough, but just FYI on the bigger alternator. The vehicle computer controls voltage so no swapping in bigger alternators for more juice.
7) Select-Trac TC allows for fulltime 4x4 driving, but is a weaker TC than the standard Command-Trac unit that most have.

Make sure the LBJ recall has been preformed. Surely it has but just in case, run the VIN number through the Jeep.com website to make sure.
9) The speed sensor plugs into the top of the diff and the parking brake cable can rub / fray through the speed sensor wire. If you see intermittent speedometer operation - chances are the wire needs repair.
10) The multifunction stalk (turn signal side) can cause the dash lights to flicker. Not a huge issue but you can wiggle the stalk and look for this. Replacing the stalk fixes the issue.
11) Make sure the HVAC blower works on all 4 settings. The resistor block fails in these about every 2 or 3 years with constant use. The resistor block is an easy fix that costs about 17 dollars and takes less than 15 minutes.
12) Valve spring failure is randomly reported on the 3.7L engine after 100K miles of use. It’s a random issue that isn't widespread - but does exist so it's worth knowing about.
13) Tow limit for KJ with Manual Trans = 3500 pounds. Tow limit for KJ with Auto Trans and tow package [factory rated] = 5000 pounds. [3500 w/o Tow package according to the factory]

I'd find a nice 2002. They are the best (biased opinion) because they get the stronger transmission, have an extra power-outlet in the front center stack and don't exhibit many problems. Look for one with a mechanical engine fan under the hood... That's a sure fire way to tell you it has the tow package. The tow package comes with a 7-pin trailer harness properly wired by the factory.

The KJ is not prewired for trailer brakes but you can add one if you need it [depending on your tow weight]

I tow all over the place with my sailboat and love the KJ as a tow vehicle.

Budke · **Posted:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:54 am

2002 is where it's at. 45rfe, prelowered if built before April 2002 I believe.
Make sure it's black too.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:20 pm

some of the early 2003's had 45RFE's too, counting the tranny pan bolts is probably the easiest way to tell

if ya get a manual, upgrade the clutch to a dual friction centerforce or equivalent and you'll be much happier in the short and long run regardless of towing situations

naturally stock springs are pretty weak and will sag faster with towing - not so much a problem if you plan to lift and upgrade springs

as was said, they're easy to equip for trailer brakes, the relays for the harness for the trailer wiring is behind the passenger cargo panel and there's plenty of room for additional equipment

hitches are pretty cheep and easy to install if you find what you're looking for and it doesn't happen to still have the hitch

naturally, check the front cv boots for oil wetness and tears

check differentials at the pinion for leaks

check exhaust for major components, dealer i got mine from had removed a cat/resonator - if it's in question take it to an inspection shop and ask them to eyeball everything, they'll probably just charge you a 10 dollar lift fee

make sure the fan under the hood comes on when you turn on the AC

check engine dipstick for baby poop

check tranny dipstick for sooty lookin fluid

pull off the side of the road and make sure the 4wd engages and operates in all modes

some of the stuff is hard to eyeball if it's been recently detailed but major leaks typically show up after a 20 mile test drive on the freeway

99_XC600 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:17 pm

Thanks to everyone's detailed responses. I know sometimes it may be a PIA to type points that may have been discussed a 1000 times before.(I deal with it all the time over @ hardcoresledder.com) They have all been great.

So basically stay away from the 2005-2006 because of the Windows regulators. I saw this mentioned on some other resources but thought it was widespread through out the whole mfg run. Nice to know it's isolated within a couple of model years. I don't think I could keep my wife happy by telling her she couldn't roll down the windows.

I guess I need to start looking at some 2002 and 2003's which is good because the resale should have come down on them quite a bit by now.
A 5 spd would be preferred as she currently drives a standard and what she is looking for. Another plus.

Also are the seats interchangeable throughout the years? If the seats are stained, finding a good leather set will be a priority as well.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:03 pm

the window regulator issues are pretty much widespread throughout the build years

an good aftermarket 3yr 30k mile warranty through a used dealer will pay for itself with 4 window regulators

no idea about the seats

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:32 am

there is an aftermarket window reg fix you can buy for $80-90 a window for the rears. its been discussed here like a month ago. and I bookmarked the site incase I ever need it. I think the rears are what most have had issues with but somewhere the guy at Steiger performance wote about working on a front kit as well.

http://www.steigerperformance.com/

Rich · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:18 pm

Find a CRD

[/thread]

:POPCORN:

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:02 am

Rich wrote:

Find a CRD

[/thread]

:POPCORN:

X2

I love mine :JEEPIN:

offroadohio · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:49 am

These things are junk. I am just so upside down in mine im stuck with it. Wish I would have left it on the lot.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:52 am

the cookie cutter doesn't fit everyone, is there something in particular ya don't like about it?

offroadohio · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:58 am

yeah, its in the garage needing a $100+ part every week. Ive had this discussion on here before and dont feel like another indepth detail thread. But long story short, 4 front wheel beairngs, 8 window regulators. a set of rear whele bearings, 2 sets of rotors, 4 sets of pads ( both front and rear) an electric fan, a couple of under hood sensors), two rack n pinions. set of upper ball joints/control arms ( went with al's now) and some other odds n ends, shocks at 30k ( thats when I went ahead and lifted it) and some other sutff. its an 07, not like its a 10 year old vehicle.

Has saw 4wd maybe 10 times in the 2 years ive had it, and i admit Im hard on it when its in the woods, but this stuff is rediculious. The cherokee;s and tj;s certianly didnt fall apart liek this after 2 years on the road.

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:09 am

all in how you take care of one :wink:

offroadohio · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:12 am

I doubt it. I have complete service records showing EVERYTHING has been done to the manufactures recommendations.

As I said before on this discussion, I have NEVEr had any other vehicle with as many problems as the Liberty and the liberty doesnt see anywhere close to the abuse the others have seen.

The Liberty has ruined the Jeep image for me.

InCommando · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:46 am

Almost all of us have more miles with little or no parts failures and nothing like ORO has experienced.

jhblackwell · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:49 pm

offroadohio wrote:

The Liberty has ruined the Jeep image for me.

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like you got a lemon. Sh#t happens.

Years ago we bought used Ford Taurus wagons for my wife and daughter, same model, one year apart. My daughter's was fine, never had a problem, the wife's fell apart and was in the shop every 6 mo's...an obvious lemon.
I've had my '06 KJ for 4 yrs., 30k mi., and some moderate wheelin' with no problems at all (knock wood :roll:

).

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:04 pm

jhblackwell wrote:

offroadohio wrote:

The Liberty has ruined the Jeep image for me.

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like you got a lemon. Sh#t happens.

Years ago we bought used Ford Taurus wagons for my wife and daughter, same model, one year apart. My daughter's was fine, never had a problem, the wife's fell apart and was in the shop every 6 mo's...an obvious lemon.
I've had my '06 KJ for 4 yrs., 30k mi., and some moderate wheelin' with no problems at all (knock wood :roll:

).

yep sametimes you get a lemon. an example is when I was in high school my Dad had a Reliant wagon w/ 5sp manual My grand father had a Dodge Aries both the same year and basicly the same car. my Dad's was a POS, it had carb issues, electrical issues, and ate 2 clutchs and a transmission. My Grands had an Auto and was never ever in the shop for anything but oil change and inpections.

jhblackwell · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:54 pm

[quote="mikey1273"yep sametimes you get a lemon. an example is when I was in high school my Dad had a Reliant wagon w/ 5sp manual My grand father had a Dodge Aries both the same year and basicly the same car. my Dad's was a POS, it had carb issues, electrical issues, and ate 2 clutchs and a transmission. My Grands had an Auto and was never ever in the shop for anything but oil change and inpections.[/quote]

Maybe you've fixed all the problems and now you have a good vehicle. Who knows? Only time will tell, and sounds like that's all you have...being upside down and all. I feel your pain, but please don't put all Jeeps in your P.O.S. category. If you read all the posts, most people are happy with their KJ. For some it's their first vehicle and they don't have a history with other P.O.S's to relate to. For others they've modified it such that it isn't "stock" and use and abuse it beyond the original design parameters, which leads to problems.
Excuse my banter...just trying to put things in perspective.
John

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:47 am

I do not want to put Jeeps in the POS catagory, I hope no one here does... I have not had mine that long to have many issues. I have done a few things to help with what I have learn here are issues with my CRD... I have not fixed them all. this is the newest vehicle with the fewest miles I have ever owned so far. Every car even ones people feel are the best brands like Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Mercades and BMW have some comman problem in each model. I am 36 and have been driving and owned cars since I was 17, thats half my life so far. I have owned plenty of cars all used too. I have some experince. I have had 2 dodges, 2 fords, 1 Isuzu, 1 nissan, 1 Honda, 2 subarus and now the Jeep. All have had some problem that was typical for the model, some better cars than others but none totally horrable. I have always taken fairly good care of them too and I feel that has help over the years for me to get out of the cars what I expected for the most part.

Looking to purchase a Liberty...Help a newb out.

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