Just parted with my CRD

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:24 pm

geordi wrote:

#1: Please learn to type, punctuate, and spell. Your post is very difficult to read.

#2: What exactly does an electronics show have to do with the automotive engine options available in the USA, or even with politics or the EPA for that matter?

The EPA and CARB may have issues with the diesel engine, but that is not restricting the manufacturers from building or selling them. Before the restrictions got to this point (like the entire 90's and early 2000's up to 2007) where were the armies of diesel CARS being sold? Was the availability for purchase at 50% like in Europe? Did every car have a diesel engine option that nobody knows about?

If you blame politics for this, that is as valid an assertion as any other. But please offer some evidence or logical argument for it, not a knee-jerk "I don't like this President so he caused my hair to fall out and made birds poop on my clean car" argument.

It will take years for the Historians to sort out the Spin from fact. Both Big oil & Carbon Credits Traders all want to make the max buck with minimal effort. They only care about their own bottom line, they would lobby to tax farts if they though they were a threat to their bottom line. Detroit is a stick in the mud along with Japan and Korea, and all they want is to sell what nets the best bottom line with minimal investment. Europe only wants to export to North America what has the maximum crap piled on to jack up the price. EPA and CARB want to hang onto their power by justifying their existence like any Government agency. As soon as they figure out that tires emit particulates the Public Service announcements will blame tires for Asthma Attacks. To tie all this together, it is a power/money grab being played by many parties, some in collusion and other competing with one another.
Best solution I see is Big Shots (Government, Corporate, and Academia alike) who break the law getting handcuffed on prime time TV, good for News Ratings and a welcome break from the DC Centrism seen they play every day. Handcuffs and jail will clean up White Collar Crime in Industry, Government, and Academia, no one should get off easy. :idea:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:52 am

geordi wrote:

The ZJ is a body-on-frame, the KJ is a unibody

Geordi, those must be more than just cubans you are smoking there, the ZJ is unibody, has been and always will be.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:01 am

geordi wrote:

.......... the KJ is a unibody, so the ZJ SHOULD be heavier with all the extra steel. Yet the KJ is 4500 lbs and the ZJ is about 3800? There is no good engineering reason for this.

Yes there is, the KJ is a good deal safer than the ZJ.

ZJ 3200
WJ 3700
WK 4900

Also, KJ curb weight is 4033lb. XJ 3057lbs.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 am

Sir Sam wrote:

geordi wrote:

.......... the KJ is a unibody, so the ZJ SHOULD be heavier with all the extra steel. Yet the KJ is 4500 lbs and the ZJ is about 3800? There is no good engineering reason for this.

Yes there is, the KJ is a good deal safer than the ZJ.

ZJ 3200
WJ 3700
WK 4900

Also, KJ curb weight is 4033lb. XJ 3057lbs.

I coulda sworn that the ZJ had frame rails under it, but it's 500 miles away from me so I can't go look to verify my own stupidity... But on the weight issue...

4033? Did they only weigh the 4-cyl gas version, or was the entire interior filled with helium? I have SEVERAL scale slips for my KJ, most notably from time that this picture was taken:

And I unhooked the genset and left it sitting on it's own pad on the scale, and I put the CRD all alone on the forward pad, then stood OFF the scale while talking to the attendant who did the measurement. The CRD was mostly empty at this weigh-in, with the only non-stock element as the LRE tires. My film gear that I normally worked with was not there, this was the first generator-film that I was working on, and the biggest generator. When I scaled my 7.5x20 car box, it came out with EXACTLY the same number total: 11240
The genset was 6840lbs, so that leaves 4400. Where'd the other 400 come from?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:32 am

geordi wrote:

I coulda sworn that the ZJ had frame rails under it, but it's 500 miles away from me so I can't go look to verify my own stupidity... But on the weight issue...

There is no frame on the ZJ, it was made to be the unibody replacement for the XJ(which was also unibody).

Go look under any ZJ, you will see they are all unibody, have been and always will be.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:53 pm

The EPA and CARB have dealt diesel engines the death blow. New emission-compliant systems are over $30,000 on a class-8 truck. This was BEFORE 2010 emissions went into effect. It simply costs too much to make a passenger diesel vehicle emission-compliant. The American public doesn't like diesels anyways. The diesel market was small in 2005 and I don't see it going anywhere but down. Get over it.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:05 pm

onthehunt wrote:

The EPA and CARB have dealt diesel engines the death blow. New emission-compliant systems are over $30,000 on a class-8 truck. This was BEFORE 2010 emissions went into effect. It simply costs too much to make a passenger diesel vehicle emission-compliant. The American public doesn't like diesels anyways. The diesel market was small in 2005 and I don't see it going anywhere but down. Get over it.

Nope, I want to see EPA and CARB idiots dragged out in handcuffs, prosecuted, and sent to prison. :POPCORN:

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:16 pm

---The dust emitted by wearing tires is way more particulates put in the air than the 2010 EPA standard for light small diesels.
---If 35% of all passenger cars and light trucks in the US were diesel Saudi Arabia (40% of OPEC) would be looking for a new major industry cause they will be shipping zero oil.
---If all this business of diesel <PM10 particulates were so cancer and asthma causing per CARB and EPA then why are not people dropping like flies in Europe?
---Refiners can produce (crack) D2 a lot more cheaply than the napthas and levels higher like RUG.
---Aside from that regeneration cycle (which will be figured out soon) BIODIESEL can just step right in as an out right alternative to fossil fuel use. It is a fact: in pre 2006 on back (2005 and 2006 KJ included) models: biodiesel does no harm whatsoever and can be used in any concentration.
---AND getting back to thread there are many fine crossovers and small SUV's out there with awesome options, looks, 4WD setups, and capabilities that are not, sadly available in the US.

Case in point, our grand big business/political setup here in the states is gypping the American Public to economical, practical, so very potentially popular, fine diesel motor cars and small trucks that can be every good as a hypebryd, save money, last way longer and can send our way to the correct path as to what the future can be.

Roland

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:00 am

Preaching to the choir there buddy.

Now get all those hot-air-polluters in the funny domed building in DC to believe the same things. They have had big oil et. al. whispering into their ears and tickling their wallets for DECADES in the opposite direction.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:27 am

Silverdiesel wrote:

---The dust emitted by wearing tires is way more particulates put in the air than the 2010 EPA standard for light small diesels.
---If 35% of all passenger cars and light trucks in the US were diesel Saudi Arabia (40% of OPEC) would be looking for a new major industry cause they will be shipping zero oil.
---If all this business of diesel <PM10 particulates were so cancer and asthma causing per CARB and EPA then why are not people dropping like flies in Europe?
---Refiners can produce (crack) D2 a lot more cheaply than the napthas and levels higher like RUG.
---Aside from that regeneration cycle (which will be figured out soon) BIODIESEL can just step right in as an out right alternative to fossil fuel use. It is a fact: in pre 2006 on back (2005 and 2006 KJ included) models: biodiesel does no harm whatsoever and can be used in any concentration.
---AND getting back to thread there are many fine crossovers and small SUV's out there with awesome options, looks, 4WD setups, and capabilities that are not, sadly available in the US.

Case in point, our grand big business/political setup here in the states is gypping the American Public to economical, practical, so very potentially popular, fine diesel motor cars and small trucks that can be every good as a hypebryd, save money, last way longer and can send our way to the correct path as to what the future can be.

Roland

Roland,

Where did you hear all of this? Especially the first two... I would love to be able to use these facts against my anti-diesel friends, but I need to be able to back it up.

flman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:03 am

At the first look I saw a Mercedes Benz SUV. Never heard of the Kryon? So it is actually a Mercedes SUV manufactured in Korea. I must admit the engine sounds sweet.

Good luck with you new Kryon.

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:25 pm

Stoutdog,
Where do those progassers hear their facts?
They will not be able to produce a reference, and I can go back but it is from being exposed to light diesel(and medium truck diesel from work) for some time and reading articles from reputable outfits like Popular Mechanics and from very decent diesel based websites, too many to list.

The 35% use of light diesel was featured in an Audi TV commercial recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk7fSIDPZOg

This tiredust finding was discussed at length on Tdiclub.com

Soot is the first thing these progassers point out. One effective way is to point out that the finer <PM10 particulates is put out by gas engines will float in the air, accumulate and then become a problem tearing up the ozone layer. Larger particles like D2 soot get out of the air quicker and nature takes care of them on the ground. You can't argue about gravity. And now even those soot particles are "handled" by current EPA requirements leaving tire dust as being more offensive than diesel exhaust.

Hey fellow Arizonan, make a club run and I can talk your ear off on all this!

Sorry to be off thread again but I do like the looks of the OP 's new diesel suv!!

Roland

stoutdog · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:10 pm

Silverdiesel wrote:

Stoutdog,
Hey fellow Arizonan, make a club run and I can talk your ear off on all this!

Roland

Thanks. My progasser friends don't really have any facts. They more so just say, "ohhh, diesel is stinky/loud/gross." The only viable excuse I have ever heard is that diesels don't have the hp of a gasser.... To which I respond that I've never had an issue getting onto the highway. I don't really care what my 0-60 time is, cause I'll never need it.

I've been thinking about making a club run. Two problems: 1) I'm a grad student, with little free time; 2) I don't own any AT tires or have a lift. I do, at least, have tow hooks.

If you guys have a day trip, that doesn't require AT tires, I'm all ears! :SOMBRERO:

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:55 pm

Kudos on the grad studies!!!
And yes these runs are offroad in nature--
You are not required to participate but the insight of "a different kind of run" is in order.
My interest in the KJ is mainly the diesel setup then the Jeep capabilities. (JK but, poor gassers just have the "jeep capabilities" to work with). My participation in the club culture is another great benefit on all this.

And on that HP issue counter with high torque (CRD is 50% more torque than 3.7, 295 vs 200) AND that torque is at the start of the RPM range . So 1. Your acceleration from dead stop is much more pronounced and 2. your cruise speed is at lower RPM hence max Torque resulting in dramatic increases in mileage and nobody can argue against saving money.
Here is a scenario- the other day AZKJ was in is truck along side me on the Hwy at 65 mph and we dragged (level surface) -- he out accelerated me-- but I remember climbing a sharp incline a few months ago and this Kj (not AZKJ) came up next and so we punched it- and I left that gasser way behind and fast!!. I was able to work my acceleration at lower RPMS due to the incline and that was the trick.

uh any way back to thread =gotta love those diesel powered alternatives available all over the world 'cept North America!

Roland

stoutdog · **Posted:** Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:52 pm

Silverdiesel wrote:

Kudos on the grad studies!!!
And yes these runs are offroad in nature--
You are not required to participate but the insight of "a different kind of run" is in order.
My interest in the KJ is mainly the diesel setup then the Jeep capabilities. (JK but, poor gassers just have the "jeep capabilities" to work with). My participation in the club culture is another great benefit on all this.

Roland

Yea, I'm all about the diesel... Anywho, if you all ever have a run that can be done by a relatively stock KJ (tow hooks and skids, no lift or AT tires) shoot me a PM. I'd definitely try to find the time to join y'all!

Just parted with my CRD

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