Anyone running para-Hydrogen in their CRD?

barley00 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:44 am

Hi, I am soon to be the proud owner of AltE's '05 CRD. I am "upgrading" from a VW TDI. I am wondering if any of you are running a para-Hydrogen setup in your CRD's. If so, how do you like it, give me the good the bad and the downright ugly? What kind of mileage improvements did you get? I have Simple Energy Solutions (http://www.simpleenergysolutions.net/) right down the road from me and they'll install one for ~$1500 which I'm quite sure will pay for itself if I get the advertised 30% improvement in mileage. Seems to make sense to me that replacing ambient air with a highly combustible gas would increase efficiency...Thanks.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:30 am

SNAKE OIL

:ROTFL:

MOSFET · **Joined:** Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:40 pm **Posts:** 295

Quote:

replacing ambient air [FREE]with a highly combustible gas [EXPENSIVE]

Does not appear to be an economical trade.

litton · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:04 am

Ask them for an absolute guarentee of 30% improvement in mileage....which should be about 9 mpg at 65 mph or double your money back. See how fast they duck and cover.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:46 am

The fact that Hydrogen is a "highly combustible gas " is why it takes more energy to separate Hydrogen and Oxygen than you recover from re-combining them. All of the energy transfer systems are less than 100% so you always lose.

The best you can do - is trick some of the sensors - because they are tuned to ambient gas concentrations. On a gasser - that will eventually melt exhaust valves or pistons because you're outside of the stoichiometry needed. On a diesel - it makes less power because you're injecting less fuel - so you're achieving better mileage by slowing down.....

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:30 pm

Snake oil. Stay away.

A 0% improvement would still be true in their claim of up to 30% improvement.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:46 pm

You go get that... I'll be here with :POPCORN:

waiting to watch the results. :mrgreen:

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:47 pm

The whole ortho vs. para hydrogen thing comes from quantum mechanics and really comes down to whether the nuclear spins are alined or opposite. The amount of energy required to flip them back and forth is essentially mininscule...so there wouldn't be much to be gained from burning a pure para relative to pure ortho hydrogen. I've seen some products advertised that are simply a magnet that claim to turn the hydrogen atoms on the hydrocarbon molecule into the "para" form which is meaningless.

For their electrolysis thing, they seem to leave out that about 3/4's of the hydrogen is in the ortho form...which doesn't matter anyway. It's good to know they have a patent pending for electrolysis.

Just for fun, ask them for the number of their patent application. It's published in the public record 1 year after filing. It would be interesting to see their claims and examples.

...and I don't think I could bring myself to buy anything from a Steve Bucemi look-alike starring in an infomercial. This guy looks like he's "done a few lines" in his time and is probably where he came up with this wonderful idea.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:04 am

From an energy standpoint there is no way you can break down water and emit hydrogen and wind up with a net energy gain.

It just doesn't work that way, that would be akin to a perpetual motion machine.

The only way that you might see a benefit is from the hydrogen being present in the combustion process improving either the atomization, or the burn.

There was a guy out at our lab doing testing with one of these snake oil hydrogen setups on the Deere 6068. Guess what, it didn't improve fuel consumption. Further when you look at when the peak pressure occured in combustion it was affected at all.

Basically the hydrogen did nothing at all.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:49 am

A better use for snake oil, I mean Real Snake Oil rendered from cooked snakes, is to process it into Biodiesel.
To do this buy your self a George Foreman grill (or make one that does the same) that catches the grease drippings and add them to your Biodiesel stock. ADM wanted to add animal fat to the Biodiesel they produce to enhance the energy, but the pet food industry is willing to pay more and our Wonderful Idiots in Washington got in the way for some Bull $#!t reason.
Of coarse, you would either have to farm raise the snakes or hunt them.
For those home brewers in Florida, Pythons would make a good source, you would just need to open a Restaurant Chain that fixes and serves them, that way you would have a market for the meet :idea:

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:49 am

Also good for those of us in really humid and sunny climates would be a solar powered Electrolysis kit that takes the condensate from the AC system (yes, you have to have the AC running for it to work)and splits it, generating trace amounts of H2 while running around town. Far fetched and inefficient, but it would actually be a net gain of energy (but not of green in your pocketbook...)

- Or you could just install a propane or NG aspiration setup...
- Or you could make a small steam turbine hooked up to the exhaust to recapture the heat energy...
:wink:

Dan

litton · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:00 am

Hmmmm....anyone notice that is the the OP's first post and he hasn't been back since. Kinda makes you wonder????

MOSFET · **Joined:** Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:40 pm **Posts:** 295

Quote:

Just for fun, ask them for the number of their patent application. It's published in the public record 1 year after filing. It would be interesting to see their claims and examples.

Patent applications are published 18 months after filing unless the applicant requests non-publication of the application. In that case, it would only be published if it was allowed.

The claims of a pending application might mean very little, as most claims are amended during the prosecution phase. Anyone can file anything with extremely broad claims, but that does not guarantee the claims will issue (if allowed) as originally filed.

MOSFET · **Joined:** Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:40 pm **Posts:** 295

litton wrote:

Hmmmm....anyone notice that is the the OP's first post and he hasn't been back since. Kinda makes you wonder????

Quite telling, actually.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:40 pm

Actually, I hear if you line the top of your car with solar panels you can run the A/C without hurting your fuel economy. Oh wait.... :ROTFL:

If you have a nice tail wind, maybe you could try hooking a sail on the roof. Could make for some fantastic in-town mileage! :-)r

barley00 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:37 pm

Alright guys, thanks for the feedback. For those of you that actually spent some time on a cognitive response I appreciate it. The goofy graphics and colorful fonts I can do without. Litton and MOSFET sorry I haven't been back but I actually have a job and life that keeps me out in the great outdoors, not sitting in front of a computer watching my rear widen. It's only been a day and a half for cryin out loud! One thing I'll miss about the VW folks is the open-mindedness... Oh, and you forgot to welcome me to your wonderful forum. Something to consider when you're sitting in church on Sunday and I'm off chasing stripers in my CRD. Come on by and see me and I'll even say all this to your face, not just hidden behind a keyboard.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:58 pm

Methinks the newbie doth protest too much.

Welcome to the forum, we are a LOT friendlier than the holier-than-thou types who frequent Fred's TDIclub. I came from that group too, and the people here are a lot less snotty.

But your SECOND post here gives away the fact that you have been on Fred's, and not the VW Vortex or another forum.

If you want to be offended by any of the responses to your original question, it is of course your prerogative to misunderstand the meaning. But for this post, let me be clear for you. I understand that subtle meanings do get missed in a text forum.

I AM MOCKING YOU AND MAKING FUN OF YOUR ULTRA-THIN-SKIN APPROACH TO LIFE. Not everything is all about you, despite what your mommy told you.

You put in 'quotes' that you were upgrading from a TDI. How long have you had it? How long were you a member of Freds, that you managed to gain that attitude, yet missed all the postings there that anyone offering a 30% economy improvement IS LYING TO YOU????

Do yourself a favor: Go visit the Lovecraft Biofuels site, and read up on all the wonderful things he offers to the owners of any diesel vehicle.
Then go do a google search on "Lovecraft biofuels damage scam" to see what the REAL story is.

You cannot trust advertising, but the people here were trying to tell you that. You probably didn't hear that message b/c you were too busy looking for someone to tell you what you wanted to hear.

Thanks for playing though! :BANANA:

barley00 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:14 pm

Well I'm off to a hell of a start here aren't I?

Ironically your post is the most helpful of them all. I will go check out Lovecraft and see what they have to say. This is the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time.

On the one hand you're saying that subtleties get missed in text and on the other stating that you've gotten me all figured out based on two paragraphs of said text. Interesting.

if you really care I owned my VW for 8 years. I really didn't spend a whole lot of time on Fred's, just when I had problems that I thought I could actually fix. I didn't do any mods or anything so didn't use them for that. As litton and MOSFET have graciously pointed out I obviously don't spend enough time glued to forums. The whole idea of putting upgrading in quotes was to flatter my newfound club...so much for that.

I'm off to Fred's to try and sell my VW...

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:38 pm

Putting it in quotes like that implies that you do not believe that the CRD is an upgrade from the VW. Depending on the reasons, that may be true or it may not be. I had a Jetta TDI for 5 years myself, and liked it just fine, except for the things I couldn't do with it, that I needed to be able to do.

As for being helpful... This is the first thing that I am being direct about. No NY sarcasm here: Lovecraft is as full of merde' as a fresh steaming cowpie. His product and his methods WILL DESTROY ENGINES. He is a scam artist, and unfortunately he is doing a bang-up job at removing perfectly-operational Mercedes diesels from the road with his half-arsed methods.

I obviously was too subtle with the last post about his product, that is why I told you to search for DAMAGE and SCAM about his stuff.

Where you crossed the lines in your second post were the implications that because you hadn't been back here to reply to Mosfet and Litton, your own arse wasn't spreading... But that theirs were b/c they spend more time on a forum. Ditto for the comments about us not welcoming you immediately, and we should think about that in church while you are off fishing. So we need to go to church, but you are so awesome and without sin that you can go fishing?

Uhm... Newsflash bucko - You are the newbie here. Starting right off insulting people is NOT a good way to join the group. You are right - I do have your number. I've been on various forums for over 10 years, with more than 13,000 postings on the one I've been a member of the longest. My arse still is the same size, but my ego is obviously smaller than that of the average internet troll. Reading comprehension is one of my strengths, it is EASY to decode someone's postings like I have in your case.

Now... Start over, ask honestly for information if you are genuinely seeking it, contribute your experiences if they fit someone's questions... And read 4 threads here for every one you post in, and you will find a lot less verbal bichslappings like the one you just got.

:2cents:

barley00 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:01 pm

Good lord, I am telling you unequivocally that you misunderstood my intentions in putting upgrade in quotes. I am sorry you misunderstood that as it probably helped set the tone for your two last posts. And I was not going to check Lovecraft out as if to buy it but to actually read the damage and scam, that you mentioned, as a result of the product. You are obviously not as good as decoding as you think you are, but I'm the one with the ego...I'm looking for the goofy graphic for peace-brother-handshake so imagine my hand out to you. I'll start over in a few weeks or months when I have something more worthy to contribute. now I'm off again to try to figure out how much to sell my perfectly good VW for. I'll check back in a bit and see who else I pissed off.

Anyone running para-Hydrogen in their CRD?

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