Emission warranty question

kj-dec · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:44 pm

Question if anyone is familiar with the way the federal emission warranty works.

My 2002 (purchased Feb 2002) V6 Limited failed emissions because of a leaky crossover pipe under the engine; this is apparently very common; the pipes had heat shields on them attached by clips welded to the pipes; the shields are long gone, and _every_ clip is now the location of a rusted hole. The noise is pretty obvious; because the pipes are not straight, and the remnants of the clips stick out, and I can't cut them off without dropping the entire piece, I was not able to wrap a muffler bandage around them as a temporary expedient.

Nobody I can find sells the crossover pipes as a separate repair item; you have to buy the whole front section with the catalytic converter. Even aftermarket (Walker) sells the one piece unit and its not inexpensive. Since I can't do the work myself (HOA rules...) add labor and it gets downright pricey. The repair yards I've called haven't come up with a crossover section (since they cut the cats out themselves and leave the pipes in the car) that is not rusted through.

As far as I know the cat is fine, but if it wasn't, the whole part with crossovers would end up being replaced. The cat is covered by a federal 8 year 80K mile warranty.

Is there any chance of this being covered by the 8/80 warranty? I am failing emissions, which is the trigger...

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:28 pm

Sorry only the cats themselfs are covered under that warranty,the piping is not and it just sucks that you have to get the whole new pipe with cats to properly repair.I'd say have a exhaust shop cut out the bad piece of pipe and weld in a new one,the cats do not need to be touched then and wouldn't be very expensive.

kj-dec · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:28 am

The rust holes are on enough of the crossover and the 'y' that it needs a complete replacement. The cat itself is annoyingly intact; it really just was those stupid heat shield clips that apparently produced very weak points that rusted through.

The first exhaust shop I took it to declined to try replacing the pipes themselves; it was the whole cat assembly or nothing. I'll try another.

If anyone knows of a source for just the front pipe section I'd appreciate a heads-up.

Another few hundred dollars that could be better spent... sigh.

kj-dec · **Posted:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:11 pm

Pardon the resurrection of an old thread.

I had managed to patch up the crossover pipes enough to get by; filing and grinding off the heat shield clip remains let me wrap and 'putty' the holes up. At least it passed emissions.

Three different independents have given me $2000+ quotes to replace the crossover pipes and lower cat; I don't know where they get their part prices but its apparently a common one; all expressed shock at the price. As noted earlier in the thread the dealer wouldn't warranty since the cat itself was fine (and we're passed 8 years now so its moot). I still can't find the pipes alone as a separate repair part.

I've found Walker 50431 and Catco 4148 units that appear to be the correct cat with pipes for $350 or less online. While I still have the issue of the HOA and working in the driveway, the price difference would be worth a penalty.

Can anyone comment on the quality and fit of these two maker's parts? The Catco in particular is surprisingly cheap for something reportedly made with stainless steel (and not having the crossovers rust again would be a _very_ good thing).

And a question; if I get the complete unit with a new cat, should I keep the factory cat (only, not the pipes) as a spare or recycle it for some bucks? I don't offroad it so how likely am I to need a replacement in the next 6-8 years?

Thanks...

kj-dec · **Posted:** Mon May 03, 2010 2:33 pm

Ok, found three vendors for my part (front crossover pipes with rear cat for my 2002 V6 KJ)

Walker 50431, with bolts/gaskets about $350 shipped (I might save $15 - $31 depending on coupon codes)
Catco 4148, with gaskets (bolts extra) about $276 shipped. Bolts might run another $14-18 depending on shipping.
Davico 19300, with bolts/gaskets about $312 shipped

I need this to be as exact/direct/OEM fit as possible since I'll be doing it in the driveway under the nose of the HOA rule nazis. It needs to get done quick. I don't have a welder, I do have a reasonable selection of tools (and an impact wrench if needed to get the old bolts undone).

Any feedback on the quality and/or fit of these providers (or any other reasonable options) would be greatly appreciated.

Rich

JustinP · **Posted:** Mon May 03, 2010 6:41 pm

Ive used walker on my 97 xj i used to have. i replaced the cat with their OE replacement, fit was perfect, I ended up replacing the fwd most exhaust pipe with walker as well, due to a poor replacement earlier in the xjs life, it too was a perfect fit, the jeeps still in my family and all the stuff is still holding up fine, but it is in FL, so it takes a really long time to rust if youre not on the beach all the time. Hope this helps you out even just a little. I used to work at Advance Auto, they sell or at least sold Walker products, you might check with them, even if its just to see it before you buy it online.

kj-dec · **Posted:** Mon May 03, 2010 7:01 pm

Justin,
thanks. I've used Walker products before too but many years ago so I wasn't sure if they were still a good choice. Nice to have some more current feedback.

Rich

kj-dec · **Posted:** Wed May 05, 2010 8:42 pm

Got the Walker parts on the way. I'll post here after they're installed (or at least compared) as to how well they fit.

I got a better deal on Walker than the other brands after all, from Amazon of all places.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Thu May 06, 2010 2:57 pm

I have used Walker stuff before too. It seemed to hold up well enough.

What is The HOA issue?..... they don't want you workin on cars at the house? I used to live in a mobile park and they had this rule too. I would do my oil changes and brakes in the driveway anyhow. The park owner even caught me and when I tried to apoligize he said he didn't care. that he put that in the lease to keep others from repairing cars for pay and leaving cars on jackstands and blocks making the place look more trashy than a trailer park already does. Since he knew I was a delivery boy at the time I would not be able to leave it sit torn apart since I couldn't make money that way. Since I was not going to be a problem I always got away with it.

I would think if you have good neighbors they will not turn you in and stay off your back if you can do it in an afternoon. if not do you have any friends or family that would let you do it at their place?

kj-dec · **Posted:** Fri May 07, 2010 12:42 pm

Not here in Ill Annoy; I'd have to drive 400 miles to get a friendly driveway; the folks here who would let me are either apartment dwellers or similarly HOA encumbered.

I've found out the number one rules-lawyer/whiner is no longer living here though; that's a good sign. And a neighbor has offered to help if needed which could speed things up.

The parts arrived today (cat/pipes, front gaskets, front bolts/springs). Tomorrow is supposed to be coolish and not raining. I'll spray all the fasteners with Kroil tonight and again tomorrow early, and we'll see if we can't get this thing done. As long as the bolts don't give me too much trouble loosening (or breaking) I expect it won't be too much of an ordeal. At least as long as the new part actually fits...

Anyone by chance know the size/thread of the nuts/bolts holding the muffler to the back end of the cat? Those are the only things I don't have yet; the rear flange on the replacement unit just has holes (I thought it used pressed in studs but apparently not).

kj-dec · **Posted:** Sat May 08, 2010 1:54 pm

No go. I've tried every tool and option I have here and can't get the rear nuts off (studs on the muffler flange); I can't afford to break one of those studs given my capabilities; its too tight to get a drilll in there to drill out the remains so a bolt could be used. Kroil (soaking for 12 hours), heating/cooling, light impact, nothing. The nuts were badly rusted and appear to be rounding off even though only 6 point sockets were tried,

I didn't try the forward bolts; no point in wasting my replacements when they broke if I can't get the rears undone.

Turns out there's two issues with the Walker cat too; it has a heat shield that is somewhat larger than the stock cat overall. By measuring it doesn't appear I can get it between the crossmember and the body of the car; the crossmember might have to come out, also well beyond what I want to tackle on jackstands in the driveway. It will fit in place, just getting it into place looks impossible with the crossmember installed.
Finally, my car doesn't appear to have an O2 sensor on the crossovers or the cat, but the Walker has a large open threaded bung behind the cat, and nothing to go into it so I'd need to get a plug for it before installing.

The Challenger is so much easier to work on than the Liberty... its not even close. Even the 1990 Dodge W250 was cake compared to this overstuffed interlocking compact caca... I think I want a bigger vehicle next time if only for this.

I'll post in the IL section too but in case anyone here knows of a place that will do the install labor even with parts not purchased through them, I'd love to hear about it; Chicago NW suburbs (Palatine, Arlington Heights area, and I'll be happy to pay a little extra for the trouble of not getting the $1800 part all the other places wanted to sell me). Thanks

sigh
Rich

Emission warranty question

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