CRD stranded... need help!

sbohner · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 12:07 pm

My wife drove our Liberty CRD to Noblesville (north of Indianapolis) and about 1.5 hours from our house. On the way there, she got fuel (about 30 miles from the destination). When she was about 15 miles from the destination, she started to feel a bit of hesitation and stutter from the engine. She put it down to going from 70 MPH to 20 MPH in town. She arrived and stayed at the event for a couple of hours and went to leave only to find the the Jeep didn't start up right away.

She called me and I made the trip there and she got it to start, but it was like it was running on 2 of the 4 cylinders. It would belch white and blue smoke and have no power - rev'ing only up to 2000 RPM.

So, I checked the connections and everything seemed okay. I checked the fuel filter (that was replaced/converted with/to a CAT) about 8 months ago and found the it had some air in the mix. I bleed the air out, but the symptoms didn't change. :banghead:

There are three things I can think of that could cause this:

1. the fuel pump is not pumping well enough to deliver the fuel properly
2. the fuel filter is clogged and not providing sufficient flow
3. an injector or two has become clogged or is electrically not delivering the fuel

Also, pertinent to the story is that I just had an ECM tune and have had a check engine light (CEL) on most of the time since - have been trying to figure it out. It goes out every few days and I was thinking it might be the MAP sensor (which I cleaned about 1.5 months ago before I got the tune). I noticed that the CEL is now off while the engine is running poorly (go figure). :roll:

Since the symptoms started shortly after getting fuel, I would ordinarily point to the fuel from the station. But we have got fuel there before several times, and I'm reluctant to start there.

Anyone had these symptoms or have any good ideas on how to proceed getting my Jeep back on the road? Also, does anyone know a good place in the Indy area for servicing my Jeep Liberty CRD? Thanks for reading this involved post and for any help you can offer!

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 12:25 pm

Have you added a lift pump? With the finer filtration of the CAT filter the vacuum system seems more prone to suck air.

The fact you've gotten fuel at a certain station before does not mean the station did not get a bad batch. I would start by changing the filter.

You can also attatch a $50 Facet pump on the line going into the fuel filter and stick the plus wire into a leg of the "prime pump" fuse in the power box by the battery. All you'll need is a pump, a foot of fuel hose, a couple of small hose clamps and some wire.
I had this one before going to a Cummins/Dodge in tank.

http://www.facet-purolator.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=61

Good luck.
Joe

sbohner · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 1:16 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

Have you added a lift pump? With the finer filtration of the CAT filter the vacuum system seems more prone to suck air.

The fact you've gotten fuel at a certain station before does not mean the station did not get a bad batch. I would start by changing the filter.

You can also attatch a $50 Facet pump on the line going into the fuel filter and stick the plus wire into a leg of the "prime pump" fuse in the power box by the battery. All you'll need is a pump, a foot of fuel hose, a couple of small hose clamps and some wire.
I had this one before going to a Cummins/Dodge in tank.

http://www.facet-purolator.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=61

Good luck.
Joe

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the good advice. I take it that I can assume the white/blue smoke was due to the illegitimate air in the system then. I have an extra air water filter so starting there would work. Thanks!

CATCRD · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 1:30 pm

You need to replace the fuel filter! First thing!

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 1:49 pm

CATCRD wrote:

You need to replace the fuel filter! First thing!

x2

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 4:54 pm

At some point did you replace the fuel head with the new style?

The old style leaks at the heater plug.

"I bleed the air out, but the symptoms didn't change" - the symptom doesn't change because you didn't fix the problem - air getting in - is the problem - that fact that there's enough to bleed out just tells you how big the problem is - a lift pump will pressurize it enough to overcome the leak - but to fix the leak you have to change the head - and Oh yeah - the CAT makes it worse because it's a finer filter and bad fuel makes it worse because it clogs the filter.

So changing a filter is the first step - but a new head and/or a lift pump still sounds like it needs to be on the list.

sbohner · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 5:49 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

At some point did you replace the fuel head with the new style?

The old style leaks at the heater plug.

"I bleed the air out, but the symptoms didn't change" - the symptom doesn't change because you didn't fix the problem - air getting in - is the problem - that fact that there's enough to bleed out just tells you how big the problem is - a lift pump will pressurize it enough to overcome the leak - but to fix the leak you have to change the head - and Oh yeah - the CAT makes it worse because it's a finer filter and bad fuel makes it worse because it clogs the filter.

So changing a filter is the first step - but a new head and/or a lift pump still sounds like it needs to be on the list.

Thanks ATXKJ,

When the dealer installed the CAT (yep, they agreed to...), they stripped the stem for the new filter on the head and replaced it - since they had to order it, I hope they put on the newer head.

It is strange that the problem manifested all at once after fueling up. This coupled with the CEL light going out seems somewhat interesting. I think a lift pump is in the works or go back to the OEM filter - especially since the water may be an issue.

Again, thanks for everyone's help here!

bugnout · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 7:39 pm

Positive she didn't put gas in it?

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 7:51 pm

check the fuel reciept and hope it don't state gasoline, if so easy fix.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun May 09, 2010 8:32 pm

sbohner wrote:

When the dealer installed the CAT (yep, they agreed to...)

Wow??? - our dealerships might do that if you paid them a lot of money - but they'd immediately deny any and all warranty issues.

(quick check on new vs old - new ones require the heater plug leads to be soldered about 6" from the head - old one should be one continuous wire)

when I've had fuel problems - PowerService and a filter change - solves a lot of problems.

Drewd · **Joined:** Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:24 pm **Posts:** 902

Remove gas cap and sniff. There have been cases of misfueling by fuel tankers at gas stations, e.g. gas pumped into diesel storage tanks. Don't forget to check fuel receipt too. Some stations have green handles for gas and black for diesel.

FYI, I almost misfueled one of my cars not too long ago. I almost put diesel in our gasser ;-)

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon May 10, 2010 5:35 am

sbohner,

Any update ...is it still dead?

CATCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 10, 2010 5:59 pm

sbohner wrote:

It is strange that the problem manifested all at once after fueling up. This coupled with the CEL light going out seems somewhat interesting. I think a lift pump is in the works or go back to the OEM filter - especially since the water may be an issue.

Again, thanks for everyone's help here!

I notice you are in Indiana, where diesel nozzles are black, and gasoline nozzles are green, the opposite of almost anywhere else. Misfueling is looking more and more like a real possibility.

sbohner · **Posted:** Mon May 10, 2010 9:31 pm

racertracer wrote:

sbohner,

Any update ...is it still dead?

Got it to start, but no power and still white exhaust. My wife drove it over to a mechanic in Indiana since my work was not going to permit the time (critical time of the year) to do the work myself this week. The fellow will look at it tomorrow and give me an assessment. I suggested the things that we have talked about here, but he will need to make his determination.

My wife mentioned to me today that she had to put some antifreeze in as it was a little low :shock:

- this made me think it also could be a head or valve seal

. I hope it is just the fuel filter and later need for a lift pump.

I will let you know how it goes. Again, thanks everyone for your help! :juggle:

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon May 10, 2010 9:51 pm

Bohner,

I think you have air in the lines.

Diesel mechanics on the board correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't white smoke an indication of air in the fuel mix?

Do you have the new updated Chrysler Fuel/Water separator filter head in your rig?

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue May 11, 2010 3:12 am

Air. Get rid of the water separator and reinstall the OE filter. An LP wouldn't hurt either.

sbohner · **Posted:** Tue May 11, 2010 2:04 pm

Problem solved - bad fuel and messed up filter. Just got the word from the shop.

My wife is headed for Indy to pick it up. :BANANA:

You folks were spot on and very helpful. I am grateful to have a group like you to help me resolve the problem. :JEEPIN:

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue May 11, 2010 2:24 pm

We are all glad to help. Most of us have been exactly where you just were, and had to find the solution the hard way.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue May 11, 2010 4:08 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

At some point did you replace the fuel head with the new style?

The old style leaks at the heater plug.

"I bleed the air out, but the symptoms didn't change" - the symptom doesn't change because you didn't fix the problem - air getting in - is the problem - that fact that there's enough to bleed out just tells you how big the problem is - a lift pump will pressurize it enough to overcome the leak - but to fix the leak you have to change the head - and Oh yeah - the CAT makes it worse because it's a finer filter and bad fuel makes it worse because it clogs the filter.

So changing a filter is the first step - but a new head and/or a lift pump still sounds like it needs to be on the list.

It will run fine with air in the system. I bleed once a week, every 500 miles and it takes 15 pumps divided into 3-4 bleed cycles to get it all out. Been doing that for 60,000 miles now.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue May 11, 2010 6:45 pm

BVCRD wrote:

ATXKJ wrote:

At some point did you replace the fuel head with the new style?

The old style leaks at the heater plug.

"I bleed the air out, but the symptoms didn't change" - the symptom doesn't change because you didn't fix the problem - air getting in - is the problem - that fact that there's enough to bleed out just tells you how big the problem is - a lift pump will pressurize it enough to overcome the leak - but to fix the leak you have to change the head - and Oh yeah - the CAT makes it worse because it's a finer filter and bad fuel makes it worse because it clogs the filter.

So changing a filter is the first step - but a new head and/or a lift pump still sounds like it needs to be on the list.

It will run fine with air in the system. I bleed once a week, every 500 miles and it takes 15 pumps divided into 3-4 bleed cycles to get it all out. Been doing that for 60,000 miles now.

For 60k miles!?! Why not spend $80 and get the new fuel head... takes all of 30 minutes to install and your problem is gone.

CRD stranded... need help!

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