Let's compare Euro diesel with Domestic gasoline

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:48 pm

Chrysler is using four different diesel engines overseas:

2.0 liter Volkswagen turbo-diesel inline four (Avenger, Caliber, Compass, Journey, Sebring, Patriot)
2.2 liter Mercedes-Benz inline four (PT Cruiser)
2.8 liter VM Motari inline four (Cherokee, Grand Voyager, Nitro, Wrangler)
3.0 liter Mercedes-Benz V6 (300, Commander, Grand Cherokee)

Jeep Patriot Diesel
Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel inline four
138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 11 seconds

US mpg Euro Diesel
42.8 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
28 mpg highway

Jeep Compass Diesel
Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel inline four
138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 11 seconds

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
43.5 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
28 mpg highway

Jeep Wrangler Diesel
VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder
174 HP and 302 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 11.2 seconds (two door)
11.7 seconds (four door)

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
28.3 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
21 mpg highway

Jeep Cherokee (aka: Liberty) Diesel
VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder
161 HP and 295 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 11.2 seconds

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
30.6 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
19.6 mpg highway

Jeep Commander Diesel
Mercedes-Benz 3.0 liter common rail diesel
215 HP and 376 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 9.0 seconds

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
25.6 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
19.0 mpg highway

Chrysler 300 Diesel
Mercedes-Benz 3.0 liter common rail diesel
215 HP and 376 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 7.6 seconds – Sedan (Saloon)
8.6 seconds – Wagon (Touring)

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
35.6 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
26 mpg highway

Chrysler Grand Voyager (aka: Town & Country) Diesel
VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder
174 161 HP and 339 265 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 12 seconds

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
35.1 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
24 mpg highway

Chrysler PT Cruiser Diesel
Mercedes-Benz 2.2 liter common rail diesel four cylinder
148 HP and 221 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 10.8 seconds

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
42 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
26 mpg highway

Chrysler Sebring Diesel
Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel four cylinder
138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 12 seconds

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
46.1 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
30 mpg highway

Dodge Avenger Diesel
2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel four cylinder
138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 12 seconds

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
46.1 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
30 mpg highway

Dodge Caliber Diesel
Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel
138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 8.8 seconds

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
49 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
29 mpg highway

Dodge Nitro Diesel
VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder
174 HP and 339 302 foot pounds of torque
0-62 MPH in 10.5 seconds

U.S. mpg Euro Diesel
40.1 mpg highway

Domestic U.S. mpg
22 mpg highway

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:50 pm

Whew, interesting stats.

I've always wondered, what makes for the huge disparity in mpg between US and Euro models? I know we have additional EPA requirements, but even disabling some of those doesn't get us close to European numbers...

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:56 pm

Interesting information dieselenthusiast. where did this data come from?

And what would cause the European MPG data to be more than the US MPG?

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:27 pm

racertracer wrote:

Interesting information dieselenthusiast. where did this data come from?

I got most of my info from here: http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/03/15/35- ... ntil-2020/ However, you can get the same info from the official Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep website for the appropriate country.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:34 pm

stoutdog wrote:

Whew, interesting stats.

I've always wondered, what makes for the huge disparity in mpg between US and Euro models? I know we have additional EPA requirements, but even disabling some of those doesn't get us close to European numbers...

I would have to answer that question in the “Blow your stack - Don't get your panties in a wad when you read this stuff” section. :banghead:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:37 pm

FYI: The Domestic U.S. mpg numbers are for gasoline engine. These are not comparing diesel-diesel, its diesel-gas.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:59 pm

flash7210 wrote:

FYI: The Domestic U.S. mpg numbers are for gasoline engine. These are not comparing diesel-diesel, its diesel-gas.

Yes, hence the thread Title, "Let's compare Euro diesel with Domestic gasoline."

I’m looking for a fuel efficient car. But like Warren Buffett said, “If you don't feel comfortable owning something for 10 years, then don't own it for 10 minutes.” So I’m going to do a Euro diesel engine swap.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:29 pm

Euros consider CO2 bad, therefore more diesel options.
Our Acid Head Hippie EPA and their counterparts at CARB consider NOX more evil hence, they hate diesels.
Car companies want to sell what they can, simple.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:46 pm

This thread is complicated and junk

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:06 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

This thread is complicated and junk

Why do you say that?

TJ2 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:12 pm

Interesting website. Anybody take time to read the comments? Overall, people in the US are incredibly ignorant about diesel vehicles.

My take on diesels in the US is that few people want to drive them. The diesel haters demand their right to remain ignorant. I would love them to become more popular. It would make finding a competent mechanic much easier.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:26 pm

TJ2 wrote:

Interesting website. Anybody take time to read the comments? Overall, people in the US are incredibly ignorant about diesel vehicles.

My take on diesels in the US is that few people want to drive them. The diesel haters demand their right to remain ignorant. I would love them to become more popular. It would make finding a competent mechanic much easier.

You know it TJ2.

I agree 100%, the new turbo Diesels coming out of the European markets and our very own CRD engine is an eye opener.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:30 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

stoutdog wrote:

Whew, interesting stats.

I've always wondered, what makes for the huge disparity in mpg between US and Euro models? I know we have additional EPA requirements, but even disabling some of those doesn't get us close to European numbers...

I would have to answer that question in the “Blow your stack - Don't get your panties in a wad when you read this stuff” section. :banghead:

Whoops, seems I misread the title... "Domestic gasoline" - ah that explains a lot!

Still though, I've seen elsewhere that even a diesel to diesel comparison shows that US diesel engines get lower mpgs than their European counterparts. If it gets you all bent out of shape, then just send your answer to me in a PM. I'm curious. :mrgreen:

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:19 pm

Would Euro diesel having higher cetane values have something to do with it the disparity in diesel fuel economy when compared to US values?

CATCRD · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:43 pm

kdlewis1975 wrote:

Would Euro diesel having higher cetane values have something to do with it the disparity in diesel fuel economy when compared to US values?

It's not really clear in the text of the post, but the US numbers are for the gas version of that vehicle which is offered as a diesel in Europe.

Lancer · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:27 pm

Yes - I gather that generally European diesel has a higher cetane rating than US - come to that, I believe that European petrol(gasoline) generally has a higher octane - although that information may be outdated by now. Our standard petrol is 95 octane with 97 (super)available at pretty well all petrol stations.

I'm not sure what the diesel cetane rating is for standard fuel; the uber-diesels though (Total Excellium, BP Ultimax and the Shell one - I forget what its called) come in at 80 - 81 in the UK, and I believe that the BP Ultimax is about 85 on mainland Europe.

However, I do think that comparing US gasoline engine consumption with Euro diesel is a bit of a pointless exercise - sort of comparing apples and oranges.

One difference that is apparent, or was until fairly recently - between US and Euro petrol engines, is the power output. US engines seem to put out less power for a given size than the Euro engines.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:05 pm

stoutdog wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

stoutdog wrote:

Whew, interesting stats.

I've always wondered, what makes for the huge disparity in mpg between US and Euro models? I know we have additional EPA requirements, but even disabling some of those doesn't get us close to European numbers...

I would have to answer that question in the “Blow your stack - Don't get your panties in a wad when you read this stuff” section. :banghead:

Whoops, seems I misread the title... "Domestic gasoline" - ah that explains a lot!

Still though, I've seen elsewhere that even a diesel to diesel comparison shows that US diesel engines get lower mpgs than their European counterparts. If it gets you all bent out of shape, then just send your answer to me in a PM. I'm curious. :mrgreen:

No, my frustration is about the EPA. :banghead:

Actually, I thought you were referring to diesel in Euro compared to diesel in the U.S. :mrgreen:

Jimbob · **Joined:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm **Posts:** 160

Interesting data, though i am still confused about the nature of the comparison.

Diesel vs Gas, vs price?

Octane/Cetain level

Level of emissions reductions

Though to add to the rant I am so tired of hearing about progressive europeans when their transportation sector has so much simpler engines, maybe they are just smarter about their solutions?

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:16 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

stoutdog wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

I would have to answer that question in the “Blow your stack - Don't get your panties in a wad when you read this stuff” section. :banghead:

Whoops, seems I misread the title... "Domestic gasoline" - ah that explains a lot!

Still though, I've seen elsewhere that even a diesel to diesel comparison shows that US diesel engines get lower mpgs than their European counterparts. If it gets you all bent out of shape, then just send your answer to me in a PM. I'm curious. :mrgreen:

No, my frustration is about the EPA. :banghead:

Actually, I thought you were referring to diesel in Euro compared to diesel in the U.S. :mrgreen:

Ahh gotcha... I figured it was some overprotective EPA stuff that may do more harm than good. They are good at that sometimes.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:16 pm

To see what european fuel economy is really like, watch these videos for TOP GEAR.

part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfdPqrDJJC4

part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4DZby5JlN0&feature=related

Let's compare Euro diesel with Domestic gasoline

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