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 Post subject: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:12 am 
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:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I woke up early and heard a report on BBC (they put me to sleep) about how all our efforts to reverse Global Warming (Junk Science) are in vein and we need to put Sulfur Dioxide into the stratosphere to reflect excess solar radiation. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Lets see they have taken away our low Sulfur Diesel and made us use Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, didn't the sulfur produce sulfur dioxide? :banghead: :banghead:
Made coal fired plants to use low sulfur coal, didn't that produce sulfur dioxide? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Now they are blessing Volcanoes because they put the Sulfur Dioxide into the stratosphere, but don't they produce massive amounts of CO2 too? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Lets try this trick: 1) Take the nuclear bomb material out of nuke weapons and convert it into the new nuclear fuel rods that are uses less to terrorists and use them up in our nuclear reactors to produce electricity since all of the solar cells will not work as well with the Sulfur Dioxide in the stratosphere. 2) Arm all the former nuke weapons with bombs that produce Sulfur Dioxide fly them up to the stratosphere and detonate them as a celebration to put all this Global Warming Crap (Junk Science) to rest. :idea:
Another Idea: Produce high altitude Common Rail Turbo Diesel Aircraft and allow them to use high sulfur diesel above 50,000 ft after they take off with ULSD. :ROTFL: :ROTFL:
Only problem is that I never took Acid and subscribed to the Hippie movement, so since I am not an Acid Head Hippie, these ideas are not qualified. :banghead: :banghead:

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:45 am 
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How can you listen to that crap? Years ago I would wake up to NPR. I had to quit b/o I was throwing the radio across the room and getting mad at the liberal crap they spew. I don't need that in my day, let alone wake up to it. Of course, I'd be wide awake.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Appears to be a fringe science that is designed to overcompensate for CO2 emissions... At least according to this article in Popular Mechanics.

Sulfur Dioxide is also a major component of acid rain and pumping massive amounts of it into the atmosphere would create a giant cloud of haze. I think we can fairly take this one with a grain of salt...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... nt/4290084

:POPCORN:

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:04 pm 
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I didn't hear the story, so I'm not going to speculate on the specifics or accuracy of the theory or its effects. I will respond on some of the inaccurate comments posted here. Different chemical compounds behave differently depending on what part of the atmosphere they are in. The atmosphere is not one continuous place- it has many layers that perform different functions and have vastly different behaviors. A perfect example of the same chemical behaving differently is O3 (Ozone). In higher layers of the atmosphere, the ozone layer performs a critical role for human survival (blocking UV light). Closer to ground level, however, O3 is a toxic pollutant that causes respiratory ailments.

Sulfur dioxide (SO2) leads to acid rain when it is in the lower, weather-producing portions of the atmosphere (troposphere). If, as you mentioned, they are suggesting putting SO2 in the stratosphere then that would definitely be in a different layer than where it causes acid rain. Its apples and oranges.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it "Acid Head Hippie Junk (or fringe) science". For God's sake, read a book and try to learn something before you go off half-cocked and look like a fool.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:24 pm 
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Thank you chrismc.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification, Chris. I was just going off what I could find quickly online, figuring an article in a reputable magazine would be accurate enough.

As for my calling it a "fringe" science, I should clarify by saying that I meant it is relatively extreme scientific solution to a real problem. At least according to PM, it's right up there with shooting mirrors into space and building fake trees... :dizzy: Doesn't mean it wouldn't work, just means it's a pretty radical and not widespread concept.

Again, thanks for the clarification regarding the different atmospheric effects at different levels... I must've missed that day in science class. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:51 pm 
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stoutdog wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, Chris. I was just going off what I could find quickly online, figuring an article in a reputable magazine would be accurate enough.

As for my calling it a "fringe" science, I should clarify by saying that I meant it is relatively extreme scientific solution to a real problem. At least according to PM, it's right up there with shooting mirrors into space and building fake trees... :dizzy: Doesn't mean it wouldn't work, just means it's a pretty radical and not widespread concept.

Sorry, usually when I hear the term "fringe science" it is used by someone attempting to discredit legitimate science that is contrary to their ideology. I'd agree with your take on this technology, it sounds pretty far out there (literally and figuratively). I think the point of radical ideas like these is that it is safer, simpler, and cheaper to alter our emissions habits now than to attempt climate engineering later.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:33 pm 
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I know, and a scientist would never make up a BS story, not that I am doubting what you posted on the Stratosphere, we had to learn that bunk to be EPA certified to handle freon. Learning it, did not make me recover freon any different, nor did it convince me it was any thing more then another scam.

Scammer: Jan Hendrik Schon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%B6n_scandal

Non Scammer: Charles F Kettering http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_F._Kettering

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:55 pm 
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chrismc wrote:
stoutdog wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, Chris. I was just going off what I could find quickly online, figuring an article in a reputable magazine would be accurate enough.

As for my calling it a "fringe" science, I should clarify by saying that I meant it is relatively extreme scientific solution to a real problem. At least according to PM, it's right up there with shooting mirrors into space and building fake trees... :dizzy: Doesn't mean it wouldn't work, just means it's a pretty radical and not widespread concept.

Sorry, usually when I hear the term "fringe science" it is used by someone attempting to discredit legitimate science that is contrary to their ideology. I'd agree with your take on this technology, it sounds pretty far out there (literally and figuratively). I think the point of radical ideas like these is that it is safer, simpler, and cheaper to alter our emissions habits now than to attempt climate engineering later.

No worries... and I agree with your last statement 100% :rockon:

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:26 pm 
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oh boy looks like another DPF discussion just getting started..

:POPCORN:

so what happened to the all holes in the ozone layer?
flman...since you're into hvac..any thoughts? If I understand what you're saying about freon here..I agree. a scam..

time for more :POPCORN:

it sure would be nice if scientists had actual proof..not just theories..and no political/financial agenda.

:POPCORN: :5SHOTS:

-dkenny

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:36 pm 
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dkenny wrote:
so what happened to the all holes in the ozone layer?
flman...since you're into hvac..any thoughts? If I understand what you're saying about freon here..I agree. a scam..

:)


Not paying attention to it? Are they still there? They should be there, they said it was going to take over 100 years to close up these holes, China, India and many other developing countries are still using CFCs. If it were so bad why would we allow this? Maybe because we cant get no revenue from them any ways. :juggle:

Volcanoes and the Oceans dump 100X more chlorine into the atmosphere any ways. :roll:

Just more junk theory me and you have to pay for, I bet if they made only believers pay for it, there would be alot less believers :ROTFL:

Good time for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Mw5_EBk0g

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:45 pm 
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exactly what I was thinking..
but where are the headlines??? were the problems real or just some political agenda???
I currently have propane in my cummins HVAC..only problem it freezes..I think I need to add some more..yes freezes even when its 95 outside..but in a dodge with normally poor AC..its nice..

:POPCORN:

I think my last post on the DPF got moderated..oh well..might be for the better anyway..
unless they ban me..I'll be around..


-dkenny

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:09 pm 
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There you go Dkenny, once Washington had its way all the doom and gloom stories about big holes in the atmosphere went away, and it was supposed to take 100 years, and supposedly the freon that was released 50 years ago still had not made it up there yet, so it should be getting worse :ROTFL: :ROTFL: Only thing getting worse is your food bill, the price of refrigeration is out of control. :shock:

Read em and weep

http://www.climatechangedispatch.com//e ... al-warming

http://www.heartland.org/custom/semod_p ... /21977.pdf

http://www.bccmeteorites.com/misconduct-planetary.html

http://www.desmogblog.com/heartland-ins ... -apologize

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_misconduct

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:29 pm 
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chrismc wrote:
I didn't hear the story, so I'm not going to speculate on the specifics or accuracy of the theory or its effects. I will respond on some of the inaccurate comments posted here. Different chemical compounds behave differently depending on what part of the atmosphere they are in. The atmosphere is not one continuous place- it has many layers that perform different functions and have vastly different behaviors. A perfect example of the same chemical behaving differently is O3 (Ozone). In higher layers of the atmosphere, the ozone layer performs a critical role for human survival (blocking UV light). Closer to ground level, however, O3 is a toxic pollutant that causes respiratory ailments.

Sulfur dioxide (SO2) leads to acid rain when it is in the lower, weather-producing portions of the atmosphere (troposphere). If, as you mentioned, they are suggesting putting SO2 in the stratosphere then that would definitely be in a different layer than where it causes acid rain. Its apples and oranges.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it "Acid Head Hippie Junk (or fringe) science". For God's sake, read a book and try to learn something before you go off half-cocked and look like a fool.

Image


In you infinite wisdom after reading books with no given titles, answer the question; is CO2 in the Stratosphere harmless?
Some how I suspect the Scientist interviewed on BBC (when I was barely awake trying to go to sleep) overlooked the CO2 the Volcanoes also spew into the stratosphere and the resultant side effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide) some bad and some good.
The only thing going for the Sulfur Dioxide THEORY is that when Mt Pinatubo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Pinatubo) erupted the earth did cool down for a few years, as have other documented volcanic reactions. As the earth cooled down when an asteroid crashed into the earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_event), not just the theory asteroid that killed of the dinos.
As far as being a fool, fools believe Theories with out question? Pear review is supposed to question Theories over and over until they are proven to be wrong or a law. Even Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity has been proven to have quite a few defects that were pointed out initially by Nikola Tesla and backed up by tests now that the Technology exists to do so. In my opinion both Einstein and Tesla were light years above most of the Modern Climate Scientists (not all of them) who are on an endless quest to obtain grant money to produce Theories that result in more grant money, kind of like the Welfare Recipient who keeps having more children out of Wedlock to keep the money flowing.
If you never approach Theories with speculation and question, you are nothing but a Junk Science Kool Aid Drinker. Even if you can convince Naive Judges and Jurors that Cerebral palsy is caused by natural Child Birth like a former Presidential Candidate did to make millions, it is still Junk Science.

To back up flman on Freon, the R-12 ban that was based upon Junk Science turned out to be an under the table deal because DuPont had the R-12 Patent running out and Environmental Organizations were duped into believing that R-12 would find its' way up into the Stratosphere and destroy the ozone layer. In fact R-12 is heavier than air (making it dangerous in confined space) and is digested by bacteria in the soil. DuPont came up with 134A got their Patent and continue to make money. I donated my books I had on the Junk Science Theory about R-12 destroying the ozone layer along with the books I had on the Theory of Keynesian Economics.

As far as comments like: "Closer to ground level, however, O3 is a toxic pollutant that causes respiratory ailments" goes. O3 is used to neutralize deadly compounds such as H2S that can kill you. Exposure to O3 will give you a sore throat like Pot Heads experience after smoking pot. H2S will intoxicate you at low levels and kill you at higher levels.
O3 is also used in low levels for odor abatement/control when blended with water vapor and O2. Sorry if the facts walk all over the little bookies that are published by the Climate Theory Welfare Recipients. I work in confined spaces (in the Real World) around H2S and O3 and the Laws of Physics and my Confined Space training that has kept me alive is far more valuable.

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Last edited by warp2diesel on Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:38 pm 
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The best fix for all this global warming crap is with a good ol' fashion volcanic eruption.
It has worked great many times in the past, no reason why it cant work now.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:28 am 
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flash7210 wrote:
The best fix for all this global warming crap is with a good ol' fashion volcanic eruption.
It has worked great many times in the past, no reason why it cant work now.


I love common sense wisdom, it is short and sweet, no big charts or theories, all based on what has happened before. Good Job Flash.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:58 am 
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warp2diesel wrote:
To back up flman on Freon, the R-12 ban that was based upon Junk Science turned out to be an under the table deal because DuPont had the R-12 Patent running out and Environmental Organizations were duped into believing that R-12 would find its' way up into the Stratosphere and destroy the ozone layer. In fact R-12 is heavier than air (making it dangerous in confined space) and is digested by bacteria in the soil. DuPont came up with 134A got their Patent and continue to make money. I donated my books I had on the Junk Science Theory about R-12 destroying the ozone layer along with the books I had on the Theory of Keynesian Economics.



Geez, they caused us alot of trouble and cost, I am an old school tech. we got along fine with a smaller vehicle, R12, R502 and R22. While I think the time spent recovering freon is a waste of time, new guys in the field think it is normal. Then again many of young Americans have been so indoctrinated by the public school system, they think every thing is going to kill you, you cant use any food or medicine with an expired date, you must follow all the stupid laws, wash you hands every 5 minutes...........

It would be kind of interesting to know the ages of you scientific geniuses?

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:42 pm 
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49. I am with chrismc

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:05 pm 
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flman,

I'll play into your stereotype... 23 and a doctoral student in the university system. :SOMBRERO:

But I'm no scientific genius! I just know lots of folks, of all ages, who are :jester:

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 Post subject: Re: Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:42 pm 
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reka12 wrote:
49. I am with chrismc


"If you under 40 and a conservative, you have no heart. If you are over 40 and a liberal, you have no brains."

Winston Churchill

:ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:

I don't know what side you are on, but usually the greenies like the liberal politicians. I just had to throw that one in :goink:

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