GoodCRD wrote:
It got off topic when WARPED's ego got involved. He took offense to me not being impressed with Suncoast's pach job of a converter. The converter issue was not caused by mass or overall construction. The issue was "shuddering". The root cause was the springs were not stronge enough to hold with the forces being applied. Sort of like someone riding the clutch too much and burning out the cutch in a manual trans. All that burnt material had to go somewhere so it circulated through the trans and damaged stuff. And Suncoast charging more than double what mopar is charging for the corrected converter is just plain stupid. I guess his ego just keeps getting in the way. Then he started to throw me under the bus and discredit me. He didn't have a clue that the 50 series detroit was a 4 cylinder with balancing shafts that smooth out the vibrations due to the firing sequence and other rotating forces. He never acknowledges that he is just not correct, he bullies his way through like a child. I hope he doesn't beat his dog over this post, or worse another person.
Spoken like someone who has a limited grasp of Newtonian Physics and makes insinuations of animal and domestic abuse. With the insults you pile on, you remind those of us who have been with LOST for a few of a guy who went by the user name REFLEX. He was a real PE in some field of Engineering (Software?), unlike what has been flung around like a lame academic argument, he understood Newtonian Physics, but his troll behavior is what got him in trouble.
To dampen torsional vibrations you either need a rotating mass with sufficient kinetic energy or larger dampener springs.
For several years Suncoast and others like Precision industries got by without the shudder problem by having the extra rotating flywheel mass. Then shortly after the Euro popped onto the market Suncoast bough one, cut it open, I took photos, posted them (I just happened to be working at a project in Fort Walton Beach, FL). After that Suncoast went to the larger springs, even though they had no problems with shudder as long as the correct fluid is used and the front pump is in good working order.
Then after the dust is settled for over a year, someone comes along who could turn a lump of coal into a diamond by putting it into his wallet and bring a Bean Counter Engineer to the point of ecstasy. Then like a troll, starts insulting others who do not share his opinion and claims to have a flock of PEs at his beck and call.
Should any one point out the pure rhetoric being pontificated, he resorts again to name calling and insults, just like REFLEX did.
True, I did not research extensively the factoid that the DD 50 is a 4 Cylinder, for that I offer my apology.
Unlike some, I admit if I error and move on, you dwell on the CaCa El Pollo.
I hope it gives the same warm feeling as sitting on a chair after your pet mammal gets up on a warm day.
Sorry, but I have never been a DD fan but I do give DD credit where credit is due for their portion of the development of the Electronic Unit Injector. I also give DD credit for their share of the contributions for enhancing engine RPM flexibility that heavy duty diesel engines designed before that time had lacked. I have yet to meet a trucker that longs for the day when they had to keep the engine RPMs between 1,800 and 2,200.
With the balance shafts used in many 4 Cylinder Diesels from DD to Perkins (some gassers like Mitsubishi and Porsche too), they do not smooth out the torsional vibrations (twisting motion), but they do smooth out the up and down motion (like a bouncing ball) that is inherent in larger than ~2L four cylinder Diesel (and some gasser) engines. Just, another pesky Law of Newtonian Physics. Flywheel/torque converter-crankshaft-front vibration dampener combined mass smooths out torsional vibrations. I will make a leap of faith that the sum total of rotating components attached to the crankshaft may be closer to what the DD 50 series engine requires to not tear up the truck drive line and may even be sufficient. Since other heavy duty 4 cyl diesel engine companies have gotten it right, DD may have done the same.
With the VM 2.8L, a very well engineered light duty automotive diesel engine that does not have a massive crank and block like DD, Navistar, Cat, Cummins, Perkins, Deere and other heavy duty inline engines. To compensate for the lack of total rotating mass and the desire to use a stock converter, Chrysler chose to use the dampener springs option to attempt to smooth out the torsional vibrations in the original Mopar converter. As failures proved out the dampener springs were too small for the torsional vibrations. Combined with a front pump that had a higher than normal failure rate with one of the check valves, Chrysler chose to go through several performance down grades to cut warranty expenses that resulted in the dreaded F37 flash, that I no longer have to put up with. Then, Chrysler finally listened to VM and went to larger springs to avoid adding additional flywheel mass , because it was cheaper (a stamped cover is cheaper than billet).
As I said before, if you want stock, and intend to stay within the limitations of the latest stock performance on the newest engines we can’t get in the US/Canada, or select a tune that is tailored to it, go with the newer Mopar Euro, you don’t want to spend the money anyway.
Others who want more, have gone with SunCoast, Precision Industries, or other heavy duty converter that all have aluminum instead of phenolic stators, heavier duty internal components including spines, hubs, clutch material, on and on. Owners of heavy duty torque converters with billet covers all (including me) notice smoother running and reduced tonsonial vibrations. Those who have had several Chrysler converters replaced in their CRDs and then had the problem go away with the Suncoast, Precision Industries, or other heavy duty converter, do not have any plans of ever going stock again.
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