The Patient - Pre Op

blackwidowkj06 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:23 pm

Hey Tom, Buggin' and Pote (not Chris since he'll be in NC)

I might be re-doing my lift set-up this year. I'm taking into consideration my KJ has 63,000 now and probably will be nearing 80,000 by ECS. Wouldn't be able to do that til September. Think you all could help? I think I'd be the person who drove the most miles to Mudd's Garage :wink:

I guessed Tom lived near Toledo... so it's 6hr 365 mile drive if I take I-75N (through Dayton) or a 7hr 416 mile drive if I take I-75N/I-71N (through Columbus). Not couting road work, rush hour etc...

Oh BTW Pote are you going to attend ECS?

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

I'll let the Rev. answer that one since there is talk about new rules for the new Mudds garage :jester:

blackwidowkj06 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:28 pm

BugginKJ wrote:

I'll let the Rev. answer that one since there is talk about new rules for the new Mudds garage :jester:

What rules?????
:ROTFL:

Explain Mudd

gtommec · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:30 pm

blackwidowkj06 wrote:

BugginKJ wrote:

I'll let the Rev. answer that one since there is talk about new rules for the new Mudds garage :jester:

What rules?????
:ROTFL:

Explain Mudd

I would also like to know as I was thinking about making a trip to Ohio myself

Pote · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:45 pm

ok, I'm a little cranked. I go out to the jeep today and there's a little silver dollar size drip spot by the right front tire. I get underneath and what I assume is the tierod boot has a tiny puncture in it. In talking with the powers that be, I was told that Sears would have moved that out of the way to do the alignment...arrrrrrrrggggghhhhh :banghead:

Not only did they send me on my way with my lug nuts about to fall off, the dummy there punctured the boot and it was leaking pretty good now. When I pushed the boot back and forth, I could locate the "sucking area" followed by more drips of fluid coming out. :banghead:

Pics below. I rand some electrical tape around the area which is the outter most rib on the long boot. My question...simple inexpensive fix? Inexpensive fix but also requiring another alignment?? I would think alignment will be necessary disassembling the tie rod to put a new boot on...is that correct? I know calling Sears to complain will be utterly useless.

The pic shows the taped area, and the second pic is pulled back abit to show the long boot...is this the tie rod boot. When I look online at tie rod end boots, they look completely different and smaller than this long black accordian-looking boot. info?? What am I looking at here for repair...what fluid is held within the long boot and what are potential problems i face if this goes too long unattended or begins to leak again quickly??

Pote · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:00 pm

Black...whats ECS??

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

Pote wrote:

ok, I'm a little cranked. I go out to the jeep today and there's a little silver dollar size drip spot by the right front tire. I get underneath and what I assume is the tierod boot has a tiny puncture in it. In talking with the powers that be, I was told that Sears would have moved that out of the way to do the alignment...arrrrrrrrggggghhhhh :banghead:

Not only did they send me on my way with my lug nuts about to fall off, the dummy there punctured the boot and it was leaking pretty good now. When I pushed the boot back and forth, I could locate the "sucking area" followed by more drips of fluid coming out. :banghead:

Pics below. I rand some electrical tape around the area which is the outter most rib on the long boot. My question...simple inexpensive fix? Inexpensive fix but also requiring another alignment?? I would think alignment will be necessary disassembling the tie rod to put a new boot on...is that correct? I know calling Sears to complain will be utterly useless.

The pic shows the taped area, and the second pic is pulled back abit to show the long boot...is this the tie rod boot. When I look online at tie rod end boots, they look completely different and smaller than this long black accordian-looking boot. info?? What am I looking at here for repair...what fluid is held within the long boot and what are potential problems i face if this goes too long unattended or begins to leak again quickly??

That is the dust boot for the inner tie rod that is attached to the rack and pinion. More than likely the rack had a slight leak and when they did the alignment it disturbed the "seal" the boot (and rust) had on the tie rod. That boot is just designed to keep dust out and seal the rack rod from the eliments. I did notice what appeared to be some moisture on the craddle which could have been coming from that but as ya know I didn't have my glasses and we were under a time crunch to get ya done. If I were you I would be calling Sears to let them know what you had happen and also if I remember correctly on the work order, Tom had read they checked the torque specs on the wheels, which obviously they didn't. :roll:

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

Pote wrote:

ok, I'm a little cranked. I go out to the jeep today and there's a little silver dollar size drip spot by the right front tire. I get underneath and what I assume is the tierod boot has a tiny puncture in it. In talking with the powers that be, I was told that Sears would have moved that out of the way to do the alignment...arrrrrrrrggggghhhhh :banghead:

Not only did they send me on my way with my lug nuts about to fall off, the dummy there punctured the boot and it was leaking pretty good now. When I pushed the boot back and forth, I could locate the "sucking area" followed by more drips of fluid coming out. :banghead:

Pics below. I rand some electrical tape around the area which is the outter most rib on the long boot. My question...simple inexpensive fix? Inexpensive fix but also requiring another alignment?? I would think alignment will be necessary disassembling the tie rod to put a new boot on...is that correct? I know calling Sears to complain will be utterly useless.

The pic shows the taped area, and the second pic is pulled back abit to show the long boot...is this the tie rod boot. When I look online at tie rod end boots, they look completely different and smaller than this long black accordian-looking boot. info?? What am I looking at here for repair...what fluid is held within the long boot and what are potential problems i face if this goes too long unattended or begins to leak again quickly??

That is the dust boot for the inner tie rod that is attached to the rack and pinion. More than likely the rack had a slight leak and when they did the alignment it disturbed the "seal" the boot (and rust) had on the tie rod. That boot is just designed to keep dust out and seal the rack rod from the eliments. I did notice what appeared to be some moisture on the craddle which could have been coming from that but as ya know I didn't have my glasses and we were under a time crunch to get ya done. If I were you I would be calling Sears to let them know what you had happened and also if I remember correctly on the work order, Tom had read they checked the torque specs on the wheels, which obviously they didn't. :roll:

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

Wild a double post, hmmmmmmmmmm :banghead:

Pote, ECS is East Coast Safari. viewforum.php?f=143 :JEEPIN:

Also check your power steering fluid, you may be a little low.

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

I also forgot to mention that when your alignment is done they should undo the clamp to avoid twisting that boot. They may have damaged the boot when they undid the clamp or when they went to adjust the outer tie rod and realized they should have undone that clamp and secured the rod so it doens't twist so that doesn't happen.

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:30 pm

BugginKJ wrote:

I also forgot to mention that when your alignment is done they should undo the clamp to avoid twisting that boot. They may have damaged the boot when they undid the clamp or when they went to adjust the outer tie rod and realized they should have undone that clamp and secured the rod so it doens't twist so that doesn't happen.

I think I told him that earlier today, or maybe not quite like that but yes they would of twisted it when turning out the tie rod ends. I have two new boots here, well attached to inner tie rods of course.
I would call them and tell them the story. They had to of let the wheels loose and also now this.

blackwidowkj06 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:44 pm

Pote wrote:

Black...whats ECS??

Well Buggin' took care of the question already...

Pote, it's something you should attend. Even if you want to wheel or not.

Rougher than a corn cob out in Hazard, KY. A gentleman who drove to Hazard to buy a KK can vouch for that. (I cannot remember his name though :banghead:

)

Anyways....
:roll:

Pote · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:34 pm

tommudd wrote:

BugginKJ wrote:

I also forgot to mention that when your alignment is done they should undo the clamp to avoid twisting that boot. They may have damaged the boot when they undid the clamp or when they went to adjust the outer tie rod and realized they should have undone that clamp and secured the rod so it doens't twist so that doesn't happen.

I think I told him that earlier today, or maybe not quite like that but yes they would of twisted it when turning out the tie rod ends. I have two new boots here, well attached to inner tie rods of course.
I would call them and tell them the story. They had to of let the wheels loose and also now this.

Tom so your saying... :SOMBRERO:

I should get my arse back to Mudds Garage for 2 spankin new inner tie rods? We can use your REAL alignment shop. :-)r

I called Sears, told em what happened and basically got the runaround. Its one of those deals where they TOLD me to bring it to another Sears here in so they can assess. I bet that will even be a problem since I had it done elsewhere and whatnot. Who's got that kind of time to take it there, then have them tell me "yup the inner is bad, but we can't be sure it wasn't like that to begin with or that the other shop did it" My aweful looking tierods not withstanding anyhow, they be old and rusty for sure...the lug nut story is going to be "he said, she said" kind of thing...hard to prove since we torqued em down anyhow and nothing bad happened before we caught it.

I have a call into my regular service shop and they want me to come in Thursday for an appointment to replace the right inner. They flipping want like $180 to do just the inner...then another $75 for an alignment...there's no escaping the alignment. I think for the extra $140 in labor of breaking it down and swapping ($40 for the inner tie rod with new boot) my hands are tied. I've had a couple friends screwed by Sears and not sure I trust em anymore.

Pote · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:48 pm

blackwidowkj06 wrote:

Pote wrote:

Black...whats ECS??

Well Buggin' took care of the question already...

Pote, it's something you should attend. Even if you want to wheel or not.

Rougher than a corn cob out in Hazard, KY. A gentleman who drove to Hazard to buy a KK can vouch for that. (I cannot remember his name though :banghead:

)

Anyways....
:roll:

What is the date?

Pote · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:41 pm

Well guys, got off the phone with my local shop. He is telling me that there indeed should be NO fluid down in that boot and its not merely a tie rod issue. The fluid in the dust boot means the rack is leaking and confirmed it with the stealership :roll:

...anyhow he is recommending replacing the leaking rack which would also come with new tie rods and boot. I guess I'm staring a big fix in the face...WTF, Murphy's law has bitten my arse. :banghead:

Does this sound legit and the route I should go, I want to enjoy this lift without worry. Just replace the whole leaky rack guys? I don't want issues down the road. :5SHOTS:

So the new rack comes with two new inner tie rods and new boots. This quagmire is going to cost me $900 on Wednesday. :banghead:

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

Yes you must replace the rack and pinion, like I said before more than likely it was a slight leak but when they got in there to do the alignment is when they disturbed the dust boot enough to make the leak really rear it's ugly head. The power steering fluid was just collecting in the dust boot. You will also have to have it realigned. $900 sounds steep for a rack but I haven't priced one out so I could be wrong. It's also a realively easy job to do. At them prices I should get back into automotive work :roll:

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

Pote wrote:

blackwidowkj06 wrote:

Pote wrote:

Black...whats ECS??

Well Buggin' took care of the question already...

Pote, it's something you should attend. Even if you want to wheel or not.

Rougher than a corn cob out in Hazard, KY. A gentleman who drove to Hazard to buy a KK can vouch for that. (I cannot remember his name though :banghead:

)

Anyways....
:roll:

What is the date?

Check out the link I posted for you, that will answer all of your ECS questions :wink:

Pote · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:13 pm

BugginKJ wrote:

Yes you must replace the rack and pinion, like I said before more than likely it was a slight leak but when they got in there to do the alignment is when they disturbed the dust boot enough to make the leak really rear it's ugly head. The power steering fluid was just collecting in the dust boot. You will also have to have it realigned. $900 sounds steep for a rack but I haven't priced one out so I could be wrong. It's also a realively easy job to do. At them prices I should get back into automotive work :roll:

That price includes the 5 hours of labor, the rack and pinion and alignment (which does include the new inner rods and boots, and it includes the alignment as well in that price). Not sure what their hourly rate is but at 5 hours, that could be 350-450 of the bill right there. the alignment is $80, which leaves me with around $450 for the rack? Is that overpriced? I looked online and saw remanufactured ones with the tie rods for about $250 if you returned your old core...I dont want any remanus....I'll search some more, have till wednesday morning...thanks for the info Hart.

Pote · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:22 pm

BugginKJ wrote:

Yes you must replace the rack and pinion, like I said before more than likely it was a slight leak but when they got in there to do the alignment is when they disturbed the dust boot enough to make the leak really rear it's ugly head. The power steering fluid was just collecting in the dust boot. You will also have to have it realigned. $900 sounds steep for a rack but I haven't priced one out so I could be wrong. It's also a realively easy job to do. At them prices I should get back into automotive work :roll:

That price includes the 5 hours of labor, the rack and pinion and alignment (which does include the new inner rods and boots, and it includes the alignment as well in that price). Not sure what their hourly rate is but at 5 hours, that could be 350-450 of the bill right there. the alignment is $80, which leaves me with around $450 for the rack? Is that overpriced? I looked online and saw remanufactured ones with the tie rods for about $250 if you returned your old core...I dont want any remanus....I'll search some more, have till wednesday morning...thanks for the info Hart.

BTW...I'm seeing some posts where the stealerships wanted $1500 to replace the rack. :shock:

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

$450 sounds about right for a new loaded rack, but like I said I haven't priced them for the KJ. I also haven't had to price out racks in about 15 years so just like everything else I am sure they have gone way up. Your also right, you DO NOT want a reman rack, in the past I would only do a reman. if that is what the customer insisted upon do to the lower cost. I also don't know what the going book time is on the rack but it surely doesn't take 5 hours to do so but that is how technicians make money is by book time. Stealerships are called stealerships for a reason, hence their over priced rates :wink:

I know if it was me I would be checking all the local scrap yards for a lower mileage KJ that may have the rack still in it but then again I have just this weekend and today called EVERY scrap yard here in the Toledo area and have only found 2 KJ's, both of which had only the bodies left on them :shock:

The Patient - Pre Op

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