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 Post subject: Re: I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:40 am 
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Posts: 9
jeepkj05,
I am new to Lost Jeep as this is my first post. However, I'll add that Lost Jeeps has been an INCREDIBLE resource in troubleshooting my current issue which sounds very similar to your current issue.
I bought the tractor 4 months ago. I read the NOOB guide and reviewed LOST JEEPS extensively. I decided I never wanted to deal with an EGR issue. So, to PERMANENTLY RESOLVE the EGR issue, I applied the "Hot tune" from Green Diesel Engineering. I liked the jeep much better after the tune. It had more "pep" and power.
The jeep ran great for 2 months before new issues started. I must state outright I firmly believe the tune WAS NOT responsible for my current issues. Keith at GDE has actually been the wellspring of info and a sounding board in resolving these issues. The dealership techs around here (San Antonio) really don't see many of these jeeps. My questions to the dealers have been answered with vague and often incorrect information.
My jeep issues: I occasionally had power loss and limped home. I also encountered a rough idle. The jeep started without issue but had an immediate loss of power. The jeep also blew a grey white smoke that smelled of raw diesel. This is an understatement... My little tractor would have made any WW II battleship proud! I'm talking so much white smoke as I drove down the street one evening that I had to coast into my driveway lights off obscured by the smoke bank after I passed two walkers who actually sat and covered their mouths waiting for the smoke to dissipate. No joke. I watched the news that evening wondering if the air quality of the city had suddenly dropped!
Unwilling to take it to the stealership, I decided to fix it myself. I am not a mechanic... at least I wasn't one before now. After reviewing Lost Jeeps I made a list of possible causes. I also decided to upgrade and fix design flaws in the jeep. I figured my parts swapping and upgrades would be cheaper than a few hours at the dealer... I changed out the turbo lines to SAMCO. I also installed the new fuel filter and wiring pigtail as I found a fuel leak in the heater connector of the fuel filter assembly. I re-installed this a second time to insure I had it right. I properly bleed the fuel lines. I cleaned the MAP (boost pressure Sensor). I figured that was the issue as I received codes that indicated this part was faulty. On the advice of the dealership, I replaced the sensor ($125). Still no resolution...
I drained the fuel filter and filled it with Seafoam, added Seafoam to the tank, ran it 45 seconds then let it sit for 24 hours. I ran it again for 30 seconds and let it sit again for 24 hours. No luck. Code was PO 0301 (I think). I received a cylinder 1 misfire. I finally pulled the injector and took it to a local Bosche certified injector shop. They tested it for free. It was fine. I reinstalled the injector (after replacing the injector copper washer and ring which I got at the injector shop). Still no fix. Then I swapped the injectors from position 1 to 2 and 2 to 1. The code reader indicated the problem stayed with cyl 1 (misfire). I could not find a decent compression tester but I could tell there was an issue inside cyl 1. I decided to pull the valve cover. Sure enough, I found several bad lifters and broken clips. The new problem: I am now missing 4 little pieces of the lifters and I believe they fell into the engine as I was removing the cover... I have tried magnets with no luck. Today we are going to pull some engine mounts then jack up the engine so we get to the oil pan. Hopefully all the pieces will be there. If not, we will probably need to remove and tear down the engine to get those pieces out... One bright spot of news... I found a good out of work diesel mechanic who is helping me at $12 an hour. Even at that price this is getting really expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Were all the broken lifters on cylinder #1 and are they on the intake or exhaust side. You will need to measure from the head surface to the top of each valve stem to make sure the valves are properly seating in the head. Compare the values to a good cylinder. Hopefully you find all the broken parts. Not a bad guess on the problem from 1000 miles away...wish it had been something different. good luck

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 Post subject: Re: I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:17 pm 
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How many miles are on your CRD? Has the timing belt been replaced? Somthing caused the rockers to break and I'm guessing it's out of time for whatever reason. So put that on your list of things to check.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:30 pm
Posts: 9
Hello Keith,
Thanks again for the help. You were right on the fuel leak in the filter housing and your idea of moving the injectors from position 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 worked in narrowing the issue to cylinder 1. As per your guide on the Green Diesel Engineering website we locked everything in place before we started pulling the engine apart.

Hello Joe Ramos, thanks for also helping on this issue. The jeep has about 85k miles on it. As the third owner I am unsure of what work has been completed. It appears to have the original timing chain. All rockers appear fine. On the other hand, ALL INTAKE / EXHAUST VALVE GUIDES (part # 05066780AB) are shot. They are all separated and some are actually chipped. I believe I have located all chips. I have also located all of the cylindrical lower pieces to the guides. I am currently missing 4 of the small round pieces that fit inside the clip which attaches to the rocker. Page 1452 of 2401 of the Field Service Manual for the 2005 KJ has a diagram which refers to the lifters as a HYDRAULIC LIFTER. The dealership knows it as a valve guide. No one seems to have a picture of the part. Either way, it looks like I am going to order 16 of these things at $50 apiece. I am trying to find a cheaper source in Europe but have been unsuccessful so far.
My Action Plan:
I have been unable to find a magnet on a snake cable which will fit in the motors recesses. I am going to attach a small magnet to a conduit cable snake (which is plastic) and attempt to retrieve the 4 pieces. If I cannot find it then I will buy a small scope camera from Harbor Freight ($150) and try to find the pieces. If that fails then I will either lift the engine to remove the oil pan in the hopes that we find them there or I might (I stress might) attempt to pull the outer layers of the crankshaft in an effort to find the pieces... Note: I do not intend to do this without hearing from others whether this is a good idea. Meaning- please share your thoughts.
On another note I found some "compatible lifters" at a machine shop locally only to find they would not work. I have visited many machine shops with no avail. I believe I need to go with the OEM parts. It may be cheaper for me to take the wife to Italy for the weekend and buy parts there then it would be for me to go with the OEM stuff. My mechanic wants me to swap the diesel out for a domestic gas engine. I told him no. He really doesn't understand.
I intend to replace the timing chain when I put this all back together. I am VERY concerned that my timing will be very screwed up as I am afraid sprockets have moved since disassembly. It looks like I am about to learn how to set the timing on this jeep.

Please post advice on this issue as I can sure use it! Thanks.

Fig. 60 ROCKER ARM ASSEMBLY
1 - ROCKER ARM ASSEMBLY
2 - CYLINDER HEAD COVER/INTAKE MANIFOLD
3 - HYDRAULIC LIFTER
4 - CYLINDER HEAD
5 - VALVE


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 Post subject: Re: I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Just for giggles they used this or a similiar engine in a Mercury Merc-Crusier inboard/outboard.

You may want to explore this avenue.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:26 pm
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Location: West Coast, Canada
Joe Romas wrote:
Just for giggles they used this or a similiar engine in a Mercury Merc-Crusier inboard/outboard.

You may want to explore this avenue.


Cast iron head though on the Merc. Aluminum on the Liberty.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:11 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:56 am
Posts: 172
Location: Oz
AlamoLiberty wrote:
ALL INTAKE / EXHAUST VALVE GUIDES (part # 05066780AB) are shot. They are all separated and some are actually chipped.

The part number above (5066780AA) is for the rocker arm assembly, which comes with the lifters attached. The rocker arm which is made from pressed metal is the weak link in the valve train and it should break before you bend a valve.
The valve stem (guide) seals are part number 5093891AA.
Good luck.

You could try the VM Specialist in the UK, he gets them direct from Italy, for a price comparison.
http://vmdieselspecialist.com/

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 Post subject: Re: I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 12:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:30 pm
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:BINGO: Good news. The little tractor is now running. A special thanks to Keith at Green Diesel Engineering and George at the VM Diesel Specialist in the UK. Keith and MACKJ both recommended I look into buying parts from the VM Diesel Specialist in the UK. I bought parts from Rockauto.com and the VM Diesel Specialist in the UK. Both Rockauto.com and the VM Diesel Specialist in the UK were much cheaper than Mopar online. I actually got great advice from George at the VM Diesel Specialist in the UK. I switched my phone plan to save on the long distance bills.
We ended up pulling the Head and searching for the missing pieces. No luck. I believe the pieces may have fallen off the engine when we removed the valve cover or they may have fallen into non critical areas of the engine. George suggested we mount magnets out side of the oil pan just for safe measure. We did this.
We also replaced the timing belt as it had already been removed during the disassembly. I bought a great one from rockauto.com for super cheap. As I recall it was made by Gates. In comparing the original OEM belt to the Gates belt I could clearly see a difference in thickness, strength and quality. The Gates seems like a MUCH better belt
Issues encountered- we screwed up the timing during these repairs. We ended up setting the timing perfectly without a single special VM tool. It was actually rather easy. That will be a later post after I have reviewed the facts with my mechanic Wayne.
The Jeep is now running GEAT. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
Craig


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 Post subject: Re: I'm in desperate need of help!!! Rough Idle, and codes
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:30 am 
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Location: Oz
Glad some advice from the other side of the pond has helped. Can't go wrong with the help of Keith and I have always found George at VMSpecialist to be very knowledgeable on the VM engines...added bonus is he can get parts at great prices.

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