Waitaminit--why don't gassers use an EHM, too?

usa591 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:37 am

So it just hit me... :shock:

what does every other engine in the world do with that oily mist that the CCV spits out? I have the EHM so my turbo and intake manifold don't get coated in crap, but isn't every other engine out there susceptible to this problem?

I figured out that up until the 60's all engines used an EHM...so does that mean that all modern engines (unless they have a pro-vent or an EHM) are slowly crudding themselves up?

Hmmm....

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:14 am

Us gassers have a PCV valve.

usa591 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:17 am

But don't you have the same problem with blow-by?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:36 am

Also, because the gassers (patooie!) don't run with a turbo enhancing crankcase pressure. :BANANA:

Go turbo or go home. :rockon:

Mark

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:24 am

gassers do use PCVs valves, the reason its a problem for us is that we spit out more oil......due to overfilling etc, than a gasser typically does.

my 300zx has PCV valves on both banks, but something in the design is such that during the right sort of left hand turn causes a sudden rush of oil to get sucked into the intake, which is then burned up on the passenger bank, causes lots of smoke out the tailpipe.

So out at track days there is usually one turn that causes all of use to have the same problem.

dgeist · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:49 pm

Yep, gassers do get oil blow by in some cases (granted much less in my experience) and the lack of a turbo intercooler and a sensor right in front of the intake manifold that helps the computer meter fuel

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:40 pm

Gassers have a lower compression ratio along with smother burning with no diesel knock, so they naturally have less blow by.
I would bet the newer GDI gasser engines like the Ford ECO BOOST will have problems with blow approaching turbo diesels when the get higher mileage. Only time will tell.

naturist · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:33 pm

The reason engines started routing crankcase fumes into the intake in the '60s was because that was the easiest, cheapest, quickest way to cut vehicle emissions of unburned hydrocarbons by something like 80%. The reason it is still used today is that it still represents the largest single source of pollution from even a modern vehicle. The reason(s) gassers don't have the problem with crud buildup in the intake is as noted, the lower compression and lack of a turbo decreases blow-by quite a lot AND gassers do not create as much soot, which is the heart of the problem for us diesel jocks. A little oil down the intake with no soot to gum it up just flows freely a few thousandths of an inch thick. Add the soot, and now it can start to build up.

fratichelli · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:51 pm

naturist wrote:

The reason engines started routing crankcase fumes into the intake in the '60s was because that was the easiest, cheapest, quickest way to cut vehicle emissions of unburned hydrocarbons by something like 80%. The reason it is still used today is that it still represents the largest single source of pollution from even a modern vehicle. The reason(s) gassers don't have the problem with crud buildup in the intake is as noted, the lower compression and lack of a turbo decreases blow-by quite a lot AND gassers do not create as much soot, which is the heart of the problem for us diesel jocks. A little oil down the intake with no soot to gum it up just flows freely a few thousandths of an inch thick. Add the soot, and now it can start to build up.

Also, in the 50's they started noticing oil slicks along the new highways. The original PCV valves were piped straight down.

dkenny · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:44 pm

hum??

is it the oil in the intake that's the problem? extra oil get burned in a diesel..
or is it the EGR valve that's the bigger problem..this allows soot to enter the intake unfiltered. this creates the gummy mess.
the soot would be bad without the oil in the intake

-dkenny

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:58 pm

naturist wrote:

The reason engines started routing crankcase fumes into the intake in the '60s was because that was the easiest, cheapest, quickest way to cut vehicle emissions of unburned hydrocarbons by something like 80%. The reason it is still used today is that it still represents the largest single source of pollution from even a modern vehicle. The reason(s) gassers don't have the problem with crud buildup in the intake is as noted, the lower compression and lack of a turbo decreases blow-by quite a lot AND gassers do not create as much soot, which is the heart of the problem for us diesel jocks. A little oil down the intake with no soot to gum it up just flows freely a few thousandths of an inch thick. Add the soot, and now it can start to build up.

Modern multi-port FI gas engines have the same carbon buildup inside the intake and throttle body.The difference is it is a hard and dry buildup unlike a turbo diesel which is more of a oily glob.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:28 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

naturist wrote:

The reason engines started routing crankcase fumes into the intake in the '60s was because that was the easiest, cheapest, quickest way to cut vehicle emissions of unburned hydrocarbons by something like 80%. The reason it is still used today is that it still represents the largest single source of pollution from even a modern vehicle. The reason(s) gassers don't have the problem with crud buildup in the intake is as noted, the lower compression and lack of a turbo decreases blow-by quite a lot AND gassers do not create as much soot, which is the heart of the problem for us diesel jocks. A little oil down the intake with no soot to gum it up just flows freely a few thousandths of an inch thick. Add the soot, and now it can start to build up.

Modern multi-port FI gas engines have the same carbon buildup inside the intake and throttle body.The difference is it is a hard and dry buildup unlike a turbo diesel which is more of a oily glob.

Also there are spray cleaners that can clean up the dry build up gassers get in their intakes and throttle bodies. Also the gasser will start having symptoms sooner when the crud builds up so it gets fixed, a turbo diesel will just keep running and loose power at highway speeds. Speaking from experience, it takes a lot more cleaner to clean a diesel intake thanks to the oil.
Another factor I suspect but have not been able to confirm, the diesel gets more EGR jacked into the intake to compensate for the higher compression ratio. More EGR results in more heat and fried oil gunk along with the soot from the exhaust.
If the EPA wack jobs had a working brain, diesel engines would have a Smart DEF system instead of EGR, that only comes on in areas that are prone to smog like LA and forget about it in the rural areas where it is not an issue.
Another argument for disbanding the EPA and replacing it with a private organization made up of Environmental Engineers like ASME who put their profession and ethics above any Political Agenda.

usa591 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:43 am

Thanks for the answers, guys. Next question: what do the European diesels do about the CCV issue? Does a MV 2.8 CRD engine sold in europe also route the crank case gasses to back through the intake manifold? ...or is that only a US thing?

-p

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:35 pm

usa591 wrote:

Thanks for the answers, guys. Next question: what do the European diesels do about the CCV issue? Does a MV 2.8 CRD engine sold in europe also route the crank case gasses to back through the intake manifold? ...or is that only a US thing?

-p

Yup Europe does the same with CCV. I have heard rumors they get a less EGR on time than we do, but I have no access to documentation to back it up.
Since the puck on the top of the engine is not even an Excuse for an Oil Separator, go for an OIL Separator like the type TDI guy developed or a Provent, both work.
Here is mine with the Air Box removed to photo. Since the photo I plumbed a 3/8" drain hose that goes back to the sump so I don't have to pull and drain it. When I was pulling and draining, I would get 1 teaspoon of water (with cold rainy weather) in the bottom along with 6oz to 8oz of oil, that small amount of water will evaporate out of the oil, get sucked into the intake and loosen up the carbon in the engine. If my findings are typical, the EHM will put 6oz to 8oz on the ground every 6k miles.

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

Hey Warp2, I am in illinois also.

Where did you run the 3/8" drain hose back into the sump?

Waitaminit--why don't gassers use an EHM, too?

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