Hard start please help!!!!

liberty2.8crd · **Joined:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:25 pm **Posts:** 28

Ok well my wife just drove the crd on a 100 mile trip and the next morning it was hard to start. It turned over a few turns then stopped while holding the key like there was water in the cylinders and it was hydro locked. I tried to crank again and it fired right up. The next day fired right up with no problems. This morning I went out to crank it and it fired right up. About 20 min. Ago I was going to move it to shade so I could replace leaking heater core that it bypassed right now and it barely spun over before it hit a hard spot again. I held the key just a little while and it freed up and spun just a little more then hit another hard spot. I turned the key off and waited a few minutes and tried it again and it fired right up.

I just got the jeep back on the road about 400 miles ago after replacing the head gasket lifters, rocker arms, and thermostat housing. It's been driving fine until now. My oil is not milky and my water is not oily. Although I did have to add about a quart of water but that could have been from the air in the system after replacing the thermostat.

Please help!!!

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:16 pm

Strong battery? Not weakening somehow, and the connections are solid both at the battery and at the frame grounds?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:34 pm

Yes... what year? Original battery (red top)? How many miles?

Does sound like it's either a tired/failing battery or there's a cable/ground problem.

liberty2.8crd · **Joined:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:25 pm **Posts:** 28

Ok update

I pulled all the injectors out and I had water in every cylinder. I just pressurized cooling system and no water leaked into cylinders. I pulled intake hose off and I saw a couple of drops of water. I then unbolted the pipe running from the bottom of the intake to the Egr cooler and some water came out and dripped onto the ground.

Any ideas????.?

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:18 pm

Looks like your intuition was right; sorry.

Don't see a source of water other than headgasket - perhaps it has to warm up and expand the aluminum heads before the water gets in? There's no water jacket in the engine cover that I'm aware of... I think you're going to have to pull the head and check it out.

You said headgasket - so you've already done this once (?) - did you mean the gasket under the engine cover or did you really pull the head earlier? If so, were you able to check the head to be certain it wasn't warped? .. and the mating surface on the block too.

liberty2.8crd · **Joined:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:25 pm **Posts:** 28

Yes we pulled the head and replaced the head gasket. Also took the head to shop and had it checked. No cracks and no warpage, head checked out great. It can't be a cracked liner because the chances of all four liners being cracked are very slim. I am really leaning toward leaking egr cooler. Mainly because some mornings the engine spins over around 10 full revolutions before it hydro locks. And if it is coming in the intake from the egr cooler it would explain why it doesn't hydro lock instantly.

If this isn't the case what is the reason I had any water in my intake system?
?????????

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:48 pm

Water probably shot into the intake when the intake valves opened..

liberty2.8crd · **Joined:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:25 pm **Posts:** 28

I can't disagree with you yet. But if water was leaking in through a head gasket leak into cylinders don't you think that it would hydro lock as soon as that piston pushes to the top the first time not the tenth time? Also I know that it leaks into wherever it leaks overnight with no pressure on the system so tonight I am leaving the system pressurized at 16 psi with a cooling system pressure tester. I will check cylinders in the morning to see if wet and I will check exhaust side of egr cooler to see if water is leaking out there.

I will let you know what I find in the morning.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:34 pm

Seems like a good plan - I agree that it could be coming from the EGR cooler, but how would the cylinders FILL UP with water from just that? There shouldn't be enough flow while trying to start the engine, and at the same time, the intake CAC hose is downhill from the EGR elbow in the intake, water runs downhill first.

liberty2.8crd · **Joined:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:25 pm **Posts:** 28

We were thinking as the engine was turning over it sucked the water from egr cooler that had leaked into exhaust up the intake and into the cylinders from the intake valves. And this whole time I'm saying it is hydro locked I don't mean that so much water is in there it won't crank, I mean there is just enough to make it stop spinning for like a second then it will blow that out and crank up. And I'm thinking on a diesel to hydro lock something that compresses to such a small space may only take some drops.

You know it's a small space when the differences in the head gasket thickness are like .1 mm and that is all it takes for a piston to hit a head if you install the wrong gasket.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:44 am

True... However the top of the piston is a bowl that could easily hold a shot glass of liquid without coming to the top of the piston.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Based on the results of the cooling system pressure test, it sounds like the EGR cooler is leaking. It is a couple hour job to pull the EGR valve assembly, then you can pressurize the cooler itself. Come to think of it, you could drain some coolant and then pull the coolant lines off the EGR cooler while in place. If you had a couple longer rubber lines (5/8" diameter should work) the cooler could be isolated and pressurized without removing.

jeepdan · **Posted:** Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:00 am

If the EGR cooler is found leaking, could the coolant be bypassed from the cooler and not used if we are using a GDE tune or SEGR?

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:58 am

I would try an in-place pressure test like Keith (GDE) suggests, then (Depending on if you have a tune or SEGR device) bypass that sucker entirely and leave it hanging dead on the engine.

If you really must have another, I have 2 of them that I would be happy to sell one of - One is in my box of spares, the other is on my engine. Both are equally unused b/c I have an SEGR device AND a GDE tune.

liberty2.8crd · **Joined:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:25 pm **Posts:** 28

Ok this morning I found that the egr cooler is leaking. It is now bypassed but I want to know if it's ok just to unplug the egr. Will it just make a CEL come on the dash or will it affect the way the engine runs?

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:02 pm

Pretty much it will just make the idiot light come on. You can further kill its "function" off by also unplugging the MAF sensor on the top of the airbox. That will prevent the computer from even trying to cycle the EGR electrics, b/c it won't be able to sense if it works.

Yea, the CEL will be annoying, but I think the better performance will ease your mind about that light.

You gonna replace the EGR unit itself, or spend the money on a GDE tune? (Guess which option I think is a better choice, even tho I have a valve for sale)

Hard start please help!!!!

Who is online