has the trust gone ?

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:28 pm

Mine didn't trip the CEL the first time but did so on the second...definitely helped with the diagnosis.

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jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:36 am

I'm having a similar problem. I have a '06 and recently replaced the fuel filter head. Previously, I had driven 40m to work, bleed the air drive home and bleed the air. After replacement, I have had to still bleed the air, but not as much. But now, it randomly shuts down. It generates a healthy crank, but won't start. I check again for air in the line, but none. Within 10 minutes it will restart and behave fine.

I've bought the kennedy lift pump, but it doesn't work, but then again I haven't installed it. :oops:

But as I continue to bleed the air out the pump has moved up on the priority list. My other concern in this regard is: won't the pump still draw in air if the leak is on the tank side? I intend to follow the how to: viewtopic.php?t=39362

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:04 am

The solution to the pump drawing any air is to install it next to the tank, which turns all the rest of the system into a pressurized system. That first quick-coupling underneath is probably where the air is entering from. Just clip that line on the plastic section and slide some fuel-rated rubber hose over the plastic, clamp it down (use two clamps on that end) and run that to the pump's suction side. Remove the quick-connect fragment of hose, and you will find a shiny aluminum connector nipple, just waiting for the output from your pump. Clamp it down and drive happy.

davidpals · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:52 am

progress so far - put a clear pipe and peugoet hand squeezy inline fuel pump (rubber ball) after the filter into a can - clear fuel at first then loads of air - traced this back to the tank - yellow box inside tank that sender unit is fastened to - when the tank has less than 4" of fuel in, the diesel has to pass thro a filter to get into the yellow box ,then another filter to get picked up instead of just flowing in thro a square hole in the top of the box if the fuel tank was fuller , then just one filter - anyway there was loads of muck and gunk in there - never been cleaned out in its life! cleaned it all out and reassembled - pumped fuel through - sorted - or so i thought untill i set off to work in it - same again - stops - going uphill - usually in a real bad spot for other traffic.(tank half full now) - long story short -got it back home .
just tried the ignition on and off 4 times - it comes up with P0620 then P1130 i dont know what these are but im guessing you guys might
yours hopfully dave p

Billwill · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:57 am

davidpals wrote:

progress so far - put a clear pipe and peugoet hand squeezy inline fuel pump (rubber ball) after the filter into a can - clear fuel at first then loads of air - traced this back to the tank - yellow box inside tank that sender unit is fastened to - when the tank has less than 4" of fuel in, the diesel has to pass thro a filter to get into the yellow box ,then another filter to get picked up instead of just flowing in thro a square hole in the top of the box if the fuel tank was fuller , then just one filter - anyway there was loads of muck and gunk in there - never been cleaned out in its life! cleaned it all out and reassembled - pumped fuel through - sorted - or so i thought untill i set off to work in it - same again - stops - going uphill - usually in a real bad spot for other traffic.(tank half full now) - long story short -got it back home .
just tried the ignition on and off 4 times - it comes up with P0620 then P1130 i dont know what these are but im guessing you guys might
yours hopfully dave p

OK according to the 2002 CRD manual which I think is reasonably close to your 2004 CRD:

P0620-----Generator field control MALP open/shorted. Bat volt too high, too low, deviation too high, too low.

P1130----Fuel Pressure Rail. Small leakage Detected. Pressure too high. Pressure too low. Solenoid open.

The later code sounds like it could be your problem!

Bear in mind that these codes could have happened ages ago if nobody cleared them.

You would need to have the codes cleared and see if they come back.....if you get multiple codes of the same type it it is only shown once.

Regarding the P0620 error, I had something similar whereby the voltage would rise up to about 16.5 volts at which stage the cluster would "ping" and the engine would die. I plugged a voltmeter into the cigar lighter so I could monitor the voltage while driving and sure enough the voltage would rise if I turned on the front wipers or the Air-con...due to wiring problems.

This is the link for the 2002/3 Export 2.5/2.8 diesels as supplied by SAM. Download the two sections for 2.5/2.8 Export diesel

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ

davidpals · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:43 am

the first code probably refers to prob with the alternatr de coupler a while ago - it was slipping and flatened battery - sorted that issue - but the 2nd ?
any suggestions - had a look and no obvious leeks .
thanks for the reply

davidpals · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:20 am

just cleaned the map sensor - realy gunged up - its now thrown up a code P1685 ??

davidpals · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:38 pm

starting the engine - it seems to crank for slightly longer than it used to 1-2 secs longer and sometimes straight after initial starting it misses a beat (as if its going to stop) when running no problem revs and everything - darent test drive cos i know its not right and will stop in the worst possible place.
please help

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:37 pm

davidpals, I have an identical problem. How long ago did you clean the MAP? I'm curious if the problem started happening then, because I hadn't had the random shutdown until then. I also changed my fuel filter head, but still have air leakage.

davidpals · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:46 pm

i cleaned the map about an hour ago - grasping at straws i spose - but what i will say is , mine didnt look like the picture on here , it looked decidedly worse for wear even when clean - do you think this could be an issue ? doesnt the map control the boost pressure by measuring the inlet air temp and puts the engine in limp home mode ? i seem to have read so much about possible causes its starting to blurr together arrrrggggghhh ive still got the piece of clear pipe and hand pump inline and there is definately no air coming into the system any ideas ??

davidpals · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:56 pm

hi jkbkwarner, if air is your problem starting from the tank there is a push fit with 'o' ring inside the tank at the top of the pickup pipe -one on top of the tank - one on top of the back axle then you are upto the filter - hope this helps

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:08 pm

davidpals wrote:

hi jkbkwarner, if air is your problem starting from the tank there is a push fit with 'o' ring inside the tank at the top of the pickup pipe -one on top of the tank - one on top of the back axle then you are upto the filter - hope this helps

I'm suspecting the cam position sensor as I surf the forums. I have a kennedy lift pump I need to install. I started grasping at straws trying to noodle the problem. Sometimes working on one thing triggers thoughts of causing another and in this case it's probably coincidental. I was supposing the MAP sensor's connector may be the cause, but the more I think about it the more I doubt it.

Good luck, your solution or my solution my help fix the other's :roll:

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:47 pm

davidpals wrote:

hi jkbkwarner, if air is your problem starting from the tank there is a push fit with 'o' ring inside the tank at the top of the pickup pipe -one on top of the tank - one on top of the back axle then you are upto the filter - hope this helps

I have found another possible solution:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64199&hilit=hot%2C+on+start

I'm going to look into the crankshaft sensor.

Billwill · **Posted:** Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:20 am

davidpals wrote:

i cleaned the map about an hour ago - grasping at straws i spose - but what i will say is , mine didnt look like the picture on here , it looked decidedly worse for wear even when clean - do you think this could be an issue ? doesnt the map control the boost pressure by measuring the inlet air temp and puts the engine in limp home mode ? i seem to have read so much about possible causes its starting to blurr together arrrrggggghhh ive still got the piece of clear pipe and hand pump inline and there is definately no air coming into the system any ideas ??

The MAP sensor on our Export CRDs is different to the newer CRDs. You probably had to remove two Allen-headed bolts to remove the sensor while the newer ones only have one larger bolt.....the sensor also looks different. :wink:

How did you clean the MAP? It is very sensitive, you should only use carb cleaner or something similar and must not brush it with a toothbrush or anything harsh!.

There is a good chance that you either did not re-plug the connector properly or you bumped something else nearby when you were working in the MAP area.....retrace your steps and check everything!

I very much suggest you download the 2.5/2.8 Export CRD files I pointed you to.....this shows the error codes with instructions on what to do and shows you all the mechanical components and how to work around them ie. how to look for high pressure fuel leaks!

And MAP stands for Manifold Absolute Pressure.....it measures the air pressure in the intake manifold.

davidpals · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:41 am

removed the MAP sensor again - did a little more cleaning - i knew it was delicate so maybe was a bit too gentle first time (used diesel) and soft soft paint brush - this time a bit of washing up liquid and soft soft brush and it was evidently still built up with carbon/crud - it now looks like the one on the 'how to' guide - re assembled took for a test - about 1/2 mile from home , going up hill stopped again as if turning ignition off .
after a bit of cranking it started and i drove home .
so as it stands now - the engine cranks for longer than it used to ( before any trouble started ) to start the engine, then as it fires there is a pause as if it is going to stop - odd time it does - then it will tick over and rev normally .
i have not got a DRB111 that the manual refers to - just garage hand tools ammeter etc (to test the fuel pressure) any suggestions where to go from here ?
thanks again dave p

Billwill · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:14 am

davidpals wrote:

removed the MAP sensor again - did a little more cleaning - i knew it was delicate so maybe was a bit too gentle first time (used diesel) and soft soft paint brush - this time a bit of washing up liquid and soft soft brush and it was evidently still built up with carbon/crud - it now looks like the one on the 'how to' guide - re assembled took for a test - about 1/2 mile from home , going up hill stopped again as if turning ignition off .
after a bit of cranking it started and i drove home .
so as it stands now - the engine cranks for longer than it used to ( before any trouble started ) to start the engine, then as it fires there is a pause as if it is going to stop - odd time it does - then it will tick over and rev normally .
i have not got a DRB111 that the manual refers to - just garage hand tools ammeter etc (to test the fuel pressure) any suggestions where to go from here ?
thanks again dave p

You need to get the dealer to clear all the codes for you....nothing else or they will charge you an arm and a leg!
Then you have a clean sheet to work from when you pull out error codes.

davidpals · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:48 pm

the closest dealer is about 20 miles away in really heavy traffic - the A6 into manchester - really wanted to avoid this - it would mean trailering it in. Dare not drive it in !!!

CATCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:20 pm

Remove your crankshaft position sensor and try the hair dryer test on it.

Billwill · **Posted:** Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:34 am

davidpals wrote:

the closest dealer is about 20 miles away in really heavy traffic - the A6 into manchester - really wanted to avoid this - it would mean trailering it in. Dare not drive it in !!!

Phone the dealers and ask them if you bring in the ECU and the TCM...if it is an auto.....could they read and clear all the codes. They may need to have an identical KJ available to do this but maybe they have test jigs for these modules.

I have seen reports of people claiming to have cleared their codes by removing the red battery cable off the battery and moving it over onto the chassis for an hour to supposedly drain the codes out of the modules but I have never got it to work.

Otherwise if you assume that the P1130 code is your problem then check for fuel leaks at the injectors, at the fuel rail, at the large fuel pump with its solenoid and at the sensor at the end of the fuel pressure rail. There are dangerousely high pressure involved here so wear safety glasses an hold a piece of paper up to the joints to look for fuel spray while the engine is running.
Also check the connectors on the various sensors involved in the pressurised fuel area.

David, PM me your E-mail address and I will E-mail you the relevant sections regarding the P1130 error code.

jkbkwarner · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:27 pm

CATCRD wrote:

Remove your crankshaft position sensor and try the hair dryer test on it.

I've heard differing results on the heat gun/hair dryer test.

Due to location of car at the time, had it towed to a garage and they cleared the codes and couldn't find a problem. So they replaced the crankshaft position sensor today. I don't know if I planted the idea in their head or not. But time will only tell on this issue. It had been intermittent, but the garage sounded confident.

has the trust gone ?

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