Dealer has no clue or am I expecting too much

buddy357 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:45 pm

I made the mistake of dropping off the CRD for the rear lower control arm recall and a state inspection. I have had an intermittent ABS/ESP light when turning and a humming/howling noise (getting progressively worse, worried it's a hub/bearing) from the front right, along with weird tire wear on the right front tire. I asked them to look at both. So I get a call from the dealer like this:

Service Rep: The tech drove the jeep and the noise is just from your tires. Your Liberty wasn't designed to have all-terrain tires on it. You also have tire cupping from improper tires on the vehicle. We have take-off tires for sale for only 50 dollars each.

Me:???. The noise is only from the right front, the only tire with uneven wear. Please look again. Are you telling me all-terrain tires wear more because the jeep knows they are there?

Service Rep: Yes, and we don't think they have been rotated. But we have wrangler take-off tires for sale for only 50 dollars each.

Me: I bought the Jeep less than 9K miles ago with new tires and they were rotated 4k miles ago. I am not buying new tires.

Service Rep: We can rotate the tires, but the noise will probably just move to the back of the jeep.

Me: I would be thrilled if it does. That would mean maybe I don't have a
problem.

Service rep:Oh, your lights make the Jeep fail inspection, we have to replace the abs module for 450.

Me:Are you sure? It only lights up intermittently when I turn right. Wouldn't that be more likely to be a wheel speed sensor?

Service Rep: No, it's been tested and it's definitely the module, it has to be the module. We have a code for no commincation with the ABS module. We can have it ready tomorrow.

Me: Fine.(tired of the idiocy already)

Service Rep:Your brakes are corroded, we can fix the front for 375 and the rear for 575.

Me: Do my brakes fail inspection? Is there a problem or is it only surface rust from my jeep sitting for 13 months while I was deployed?

Service Rep:Surface but we can replace them...

Me: I am not putting on new brakes if they are fine.

So in the end I will hopefully have the recall done. I still havent heard if the ABS module fixed the abs/esp light, but I doubt it. Apparently I need to find a real mechanic or get time off to see if I have a hub going out or if I just need an alignment for the tire wear and the howling. I am not sure they are capable of understanding anything I told them when I dropped the jeep off. I wish I didnt have to deal with the inspection. If the ABS module doesnt fix it I will take a failure and try to fix whichever wheel sensor is out on my own. Suck I have to take it back to them to re-inspect. I dont want them touching it again.

infernicus · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:40 pm

That really sucks, sounds like they're just trying to make a buck. And another typical "service" guy who knows nothing.

In NY State, if you fail inspection you can bring it to another shop to re-inspect it, I'm not sure if it is the same in VA.

Good luck and I hope everything works out in the end.

teckman02 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:12 pm

I would be telling him that he is full $?!t

user113 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:04 pm

Interesting! In VA you don't have to get the safety inspection at the dealer, you can take it to any one of the the thousands of local service centers that do inspections. If you need a re-inspection later, its only $1 at the service center that "failed" it originally if you go back within a week or something like that (I don't really remember, its been a long time since any of my vehicles failed). If you still want to take it someplace else, the safety inspection is only another $16 regardless.

Check out:

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Safety.shtm

I don't think I would have authorized the replacement of the ABS Module without a second opinion with the fact pattern you have laid out. Surely there are more than 1 Jeep dealer in the VA Beach/Tidewater area?

By the way, the wheel speed sensors are only about $35 and they are not that difficult to replace; well...once you get the old one out of the hole. They are ostensibly held in with a metric sized socket cap screw but when I tried to take my sensor out of the hub it snapped off even with the top of the hole. I ended up drilling a small hole about 3/4 of an inch deep into it (they're mostly plastic with tiny bits of copper, etc. molded in), screwing in a big fat sheet metal screw, and prying on the screw with a pry bar, didn't take very long at all. Then I dipped the appropriately sized drill bit into a tub of grease (to catch whatever garbage would stick) and slowly reamed the rust from off the inside of the hole before greasing up the new sensor and popping it in. Also in my case the first plastic clip that come on the new sensor wire didn't really seem to fit properly, so I reused that clip from the original, the rest, while some were different, seemed to work fine.

Way cheaper to experiment with the speed sensor than the ABS module.

buddy357 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:49 pm

I got a call back today saying that when they re-inspected this morning the lights were cleared so they passed it, but then came back later during a turn into the lot. And that they can't find a problem but want me to come get it and never bring it back because their only next idea was replace the PCM to clear the ESP/ABS light that is intermittent. I took it to the dealer because of the recall and I needed the inspection, so I asked for the inspection as well.

So I guess I will be looking at wires to the sensors later this week. I still cant believe they tried to tell me the liberty tires wore because the liberty wasn't "designed" for all terrain tires.

I would have sworn I was told the vehicle must be reinspected by the original station to prevent just going somewhere else to get another 15 days if it fails.

user113 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:02 pm

You don't technically get a free pass on the 15 days. With the rejection sticker you're only supposed to be driving it to the parts store or a service center, nothing else. Of course, if you shop for groceries at the shopping center that also has an auto parts store, it makes it easy for you to claim you were there getting parts. But in reality, I don't believe I've ever seen it enforced very strictly.

fratichelli · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:22 am

I think Jeep would be interested to know that their vehicles are not designed for all terrain tires.

sota · **Joined:** Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm **Posts:** 379

you should have never left your vehicle there to begin with once he started pimping USED tires and the ABS module like that. Scamming dealer.

buddy357 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:33 am

The pushing the up-sell was after I got called to let me know what the status was. I have to be at work by 5 and had to drop it off way before they opened. It's still there since the dealer called at 630 and closes at 7pm and I have duty today.

They passed the inspection based on the lights when he re-inspected and said since the lights came on after the sticker was installed I still pass. But it's obvious they have no clue what to do to fix the jeep. I will look at it next weekend If I can get away from the ship long enough. I am still driving the Excursion for now.

blackwidowkj06 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:46 pm

My guess would be the hub/bearing going out on the front right. Mine Liberty has the same problem. Bad front right bearing and eating away at the tire. While the other three tires are wearing fine. I am saving up the money to get a new hub, which should fix the problem.

My suggestion is to buy a new hub for the front right and put it on yourself when you have time off from duty.

KJ Willy · **Posted:** Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:05 pm

Which dealership in VA beach area?? When I was stationed there I took mine to Greenbriar all the time and had no issues with them.

buddy357 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:15 am

Hall. I went to them because of convenience (they are closer to me) and the fact I had zero experience with any of the jeep dealers around here. I am wondering if I wouldnt have had better luck with the guy who did my head gasket in the EX, but that wouldnt have gotten the recall done.

buddy357 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:27 am

Update 13 July. I got the Jeep back yesterday. The dealer cut me a new key, L27 recall, tire rotation and oil change were done. In addition they did a state inspection and refused to pass it without a new abs module, then said the lights were back (ABS/ESP) and to fix it they would try a PCM swap but not look at sensors or wiring. I said no. Total bill 860 for a couple hundred bucks of work and a state inspection on a vehicle that still has issues. The dealer,Hall of Virginia Beach didnt understand why I was pissed and said I would not bring them the Jeep again. Instead of what they said before that I shouldn't bring it back ever, they were basically begging me to leave it and let them make it right as londs as I paid the almost 130 hourly shop fee. No way I am dumb enough to keep throwing money their way.

I still have a humming in the right front that sounds like a wheel bearing, so I will try to swap the hub soon. But I had no ABS/ESP lights together, before I got both (ESP and ABS) lights every few days during a low speed turn and it went away once I turned the jeep off and restarted it. What I had instead was a new, never in the 2 years I've owned the Jeep seen symptom - driving down 264 at 60 mph the little squiggly traction control light came on alone and the brakes grabbed up front for less than a second. :banghead:

It did this 3 times in 14 miles and scared the crap out of me. No way am I letting Hall near the kj again. Any suggestions? I guess for now I will try to get under the jeep and work on checking the wiring.

blackwidowkj06 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:29 am

If you have the BAS/ESP, ABS and Traction Control lights on, the front right wheel speed sensor is bad. If I remember correctly the code for that is C101F. I just replaced a front right wheel speed sensor. The things your Jeep is doing is awfully similar to what mine did when the speed sensor went bad.

My suggestion would be to buy a new hub and wheel speed sensor for the front right. You can do this job all on your own, it's not hard at all. We can help guide you through the process to replace it.

KJ Willy · **Posted:** Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:50 pm

hit the guys up in the Mid-Atlantic LOST section, some of them local to you and some are even Military.

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:21 pm

Inspect all the abs wires front and back they are both know to wear through and even tear. It is extremely simple and you can inspect both without even having to jack the jeep up.

LibertyFever · **Posted:** Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:53 am

buddy357 wrote:

Update 13 July. I got the Jeep back yesterday. The dealer cut me a new key, L27 recall, tire rotation and oil change were done. In addition they did a state inspection and refused to pass it without a new abs module, then said the lights were back (ABS/ESP) and to fix it they would try a PCM swap but not look at sensors or wiring. I said no. Total bill 860 for a couple hundred bucks of work and a state inspection on a vehicle that still has issues. The dealer,Hall of Virginia Beach didnt understand why I was pissed and said I would not bring them the Jeep again. Instead of what they said before that I shouldn't bring it back ever, they were basically begging me to leave it and let them make it right as londs as I paid the almost 130 hourly shop fee. No way I am dumb enough to keep throwing money their way.

I still have a humming in the right front that sounds like a wheel bearing, so I will try to swap the hub soon. But I had no ABS/ESP lights together, before I got both (ESP and ABS) lights every few days during a low speed turn and it went away once I turned the jeep off and restarted it. What I had instead was a new, never in the 2 years I've owned the Jeep seen symptom - driving down 264 at 60 mph the little squiggly traction control light came on alone and the brakes grabbed up front for less than a second. :banghead:

It did this 3 times in 14 miles and scared the crap out of me. No way am I letting Hall near the kj again. Any suggestions? I guess for now I will try to get under the jeep and work on checking the wiring.

That's one bad dealer experience you've had. You really should write and email/letter to Mopar because what this dealership has done to you and tried to do to you borders on criminal behavior. Dealership shop rates are high but for that price you should expect knowledgeable mechanics and trustworthy service managers.

The advice you've been given so far sounds on the money, a bad wheel sensor is likely causing the ABS failure indicator to light and the ABS to act funny. Does the humming change volume when turning? If so then it's likely a failing wheel bearing. The dealership mechanic (or a any mechanic worth his salt) should have been able to detect this problem.

Let me tell you my story, somewhat similar to yours.
Recently I noticed I had a bad hum, almost a rumble in my front end and a vibration in the steering wheel. I had my Liberty in my local garage (not a dealership) for an oil pan replacement and asked them to check the front wheel bearings while they had it up in the air. The correctly diagnosed a right front wheel bearing and replaced it for me. Normally I'd do such a small job myself but due to recent health issues I couldn't.

Anyways after I left the garage I noticed I still had the hum & vibration in my front end and there was a frightening "pop" in the front end everytime I hit a bump. I climbed under my Liberty and discovered two things.
#1 the mechanic failed to re-tighten the sway bar bolts he loosened to replace the oil pan (I'm okay with that, everybody makes the occasional small mistake) The loose sway bar caused the "pops".
#2 I rotated the tires and while doing so noticed some cupping on the inside of the front tires. I guess I'll be needing an alignment.
FYI: All the front drive line noise is gone (what a joy) and moving the cupped tires to the rear did not move the noise to the rear like your dealership stated it would.

buddy357 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:11 am

I have looked at all the wires to the ABS sensors, they seem in good condition. The ABS/ESP light, has only come on once since I got the jeep back. But when I hit a small bump in a turn and little jeep light with squiqqly lines (traction control?) comes on and for the next 5-10 seconds the front brakes grab intermittently like the truck thinks I am losing traction. I think it could still be the sensor or the hub. May have to shot gun it with parts, but don't like doing that.

blackwidowkj06 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:16 pm

buddy357 wrote:

I have looked at all the wires to the ABS sensors, they seem in good condition. The ABS/ESP light, has only come on once since I got the jeep back. But when I hit a small bump in a turn and little jeep light with squiqqly lines (traction control?) comes on and for the next 5-10 seconds the front brakes grab intermittently like the truck thinks I am losing traction. I think it could still be the sensor or the hub. May have to shot gun it with parts, but don't like doing that.

Yes the sensor is in the hub. You're having the same problems as I had when my front right sensor went bad. I replaced the sensor and everything was okay.
Maybe you should try to replace the sensor.

zenne · **Joined:** Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:46 am **Posts:** 2

That is one bad dealer you have. Finding a good dealer can really be hard at times. I'm glad I have found a dealership where services are good. I am satisfied with Courtesy Brooklyn which allows me to learn more about my car as well as knowledgeable enough to fix my car.

Dealer has no clue or am I expecting too much

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