Torque Converter Saga

loyalp · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:21 pm **Posts:** 41

So, I bought a 2005 CRD with 9200 miles from CarMax.
They shipped it here to California from Tampa.
I put about 60 miles on it and the Engine light came on.
CarMax reads the code as a torque converter problem.
CRD goes to dealership since this is a warranty issue.
It has now been 10 days at the stealer.
Yesterday, stealer tells CarMax that there are only 400 (yes four hundred) of these CRDs in the country and they are having trouble getting parts!

I know this is not so, and I want to go to the stealer/dealer and have it out with the idiots. Can anyone point me to the information about how many of the vehicles have been produced?

Also, they gave CarMax some song and dance about how they couldn't work on the CRD until they verified it wasn't a "fraudulent" vehicle. Apparently, they thought someone had shoved a diesel engine into a gas libby!

Very angry now, but thanks for any info/help.

-Loyal

pnorton · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:47 pm

Try this article. May not be an official number.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a ... 2049665657

spoonplugger1 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:53 pm

Last I heard they had sold over 10,000 CRDs in the 2005 year. My dealership sold 11. There is Daimler Chrysler all over that engine compartment, where do the think that plastic cover on top the engine came from? Mars? And while you were at it you put Mopar filters, and a different tranny, different motor mounts, and the factory CRD sound dampening system on the rig also? Come on.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:58 pm

It's been mentioned in several posts that they made about 8500 Diesel's in 05 - this one copied the Chicago Tribune article - so you have a reference
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5820

Although your dealer is going to have a problem - even where they were selling diesel's they had to send the Technicians to a special class on them and you still get mixed service, I suspect no one in California's been to the class.

My only dealer service has been the EGR valve and they they ended up calling the Factory Tech line a couple of times - (They gave me a Grand Cherokee loaner - which I didn't like as much as my Liberty)

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:10 pm

There are tons of press releases on the internet from DC saying they produced 5000 for the US/Canada Market in 2005 and I believe 8000 in 2006.

loyalp · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:21 pm **Posts:** 41

Well, I just got off the phone with the guy who is actually working on the truck over at the dealer. He has no idea where the CarMax folks got any of that fraud info, and I have since eliminated them from the picture.

They are simply waiting on parts delivery from Detroit. Apparently, they did get a new torque converter already but ran across some more service bulletins that require a new front pump and some other goodies. Is that the same bulletin that is posted on the forums here and something newly released?

Thanks.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:28 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

There are tons of press releases on the internet from DC saying they produced 5000 for the US/Canada Market in 2005 and I believe 8000 in 2006.

Just read in an auto magazine last week where in US D/C sold 10,000 CRD's in the first 12 months after introductin and had only planned for 3000 being a sucessful sales number. I don't think anything will stop the diesel in the CRD but lack of ability to build them fast enough, VM & MB can both easly meet '09 EPA requirements and the talk is they can meet '11 EPA with a diesel. Toyota & Nissan seem to have doubts about any gasser being able to pass the '11 EPA hump, and with some gas engines not being able to make '07 or '09. I haven't looked up to see what the difference is in the '07, '09, and '11 EPA milestones, something seems to be getting out of hand.

Endurance · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:41 pm

How much did you pay for your CRD if I may ask? Is it a sport or limited?

loyalp · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:21 pm **Posts:** 41

It is a fully-loaded sport that comes up at 29K when I use the builder on the jeep site. I purchased it for 22,400 and it has 9,200 miles on it. I thought I got good deal, but if this thing ends up in and out of the shop I'm going to be doing some rethinking.

This CRD is replacing my 90 Nissan Pathfinder. That truck is the best vehicle I have ever had. 250,000 miles and still strong. It's bone-stock and has taken me places where I have seen tweaked out rigs that are stuck. Only problem is that all of the little doo-dads are breaking, and the mileage is 16mpg on a good day.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:41 pm

loyalp wrote:

It is a fully-loaded sport that comes up at 29K when I use the builder on the jeep site. I purchased it for 22,400 and it has 9,200 miles on it. I thought I got good deal, but if this thing ends up in and out of the shop I'm going to be doing some rethinking.

This CRD is replacing my 90 Nissan Pathfinder. That truck is the best vehicle I have ever had. 250,000 miles and still strong. It's bone-stock and has taken me places where I have seen tweaked out rigs that are stuck. Only problem is that all of the little doo-dads are breaking, and the mileage is 16mpg on a good day.

Man what a screw up. You buy a diesel to use in CA where diesels haven't been sold in several years and that is new to US & Jeep and expect to find service for it in CA. Man that's not using your head. :roll:

You need to find the nearest out of CA 5 Star dealer, that sell's both the Jeep and Dodge & Sprinter diesels. To do otherwise is to let amatures work on your diesel and in the process have all kinds of head aches from a nondiesel dealer and a awful bad experience for you.

Sorry if I sound heartless or like I am making fun of you, I don't mean it that way. However as I said above it is time to head out of state with your Jeep, sorry I have to say it so bluntly. But that is your only real option, other then selling the CRD and buying a gasser of some kind.

loyalp · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:21 pm **Posts:** 41

oldnavy wrote:

Man what a screw up. You buy a diesel to use in CA where diesels haven't been sold in several years and that is new to US & Jeep and expect to find service for it in CA. Man that's not using your head. :roll:

You need to find the nearest out of CA 5 Star dealer, that sell's both the Jeep and Dodge & Sprinter diesels. To do otherwise is to let amatures work on your diesel and in the process have all kinds of head aches from a nondiesel dealer and a awful bad experience for you.

Sorry if I sound heartless or like I am making fun of you, I don't mean it that way. However as I said above it is time to head out of state with your Jeep, sorry I have to say it so bluntly. But that is your only real option, other then selling the CRD and buying a gasser of some kind.

Well, you really aren't even close to what is going on here. There are diesels everywhere around my neighborhood, city, and county. It's fairly standard practice to simply buy them used or license them out of state. The dealership where the Jeep is right now has a tech that went for special training on the CRD. He is their diesel "expert" in-house and after speaking with him on the phone I have every confidence in him. He is kept incredibly busy servicing Sprinters and the Cummins offerings.

I did not go into this CRD purchase blind or on a whim. I prefer to push the boundaries and make others follow. My only concern is that this vehicle may not have had very good care during the first 9000 miles of it's life.

So, thanks for your "concern", but shouldn't you be spending your energies on getting us that CCV part? :wink:

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:30 pm

Loyalp, are you in NorCal or SoCal? My local dealer here in NorCal (Bay Area) has sent a tech to diesel school (Boardwalk Jeep in San Mateo). Barring that I would find a dealer that does Dodge and Jeep so hopefully they'll at least be able to spell diesel.

However, the only work my dealer has done is the trany filter TSB and that tranny is used on gassers so they should be able to deal w/ it.

loyalp · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:21 pm **Posts:** 41

I'm down south in Orange County, Silverado to be exact. We have so many diesels in town that we are seriously looking at putting together our own little biodiesel plant in one of my neighbors outbuildings.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:49 pm

My God is there really normal thinking, real people left on the left coast? Hey guys sorry about thinking everyone was in lock step with Hollywood and CARB, good to see real people are alive and well.

The CCV is progressing along very well, and all measurements and tinkering with size and shape is pretty much done so I am told. Now all we have ton do is wait for I turn in the mfg order process, real dead line income orders are first before test models for us.

loyalp · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:21 pm **Posts:** 41

oldnavy wrote:

My God is there really normal thinking, real people left on the left coast? Hey guys sorry about thinking everyone was in lock step with Hollywood and CARB, good to see real people are alive and well.

There are little islands of normalcy throughout the state. Unfortunately, we are not newsworthy.

Of course, some of us prefer to keep it that way, too....

Endurance · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:17 pm

What is that CCV filter thing oldnavy is working on and what does it do?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:18 pm

Hopefully something that will keep the oil out of the intake and of course your engine.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:50 am

loyalp wrote:

Well, I just got off the phone with the guy who is actually working on the truck over at the dealer. He has no idea where the CarMax folks got any of that fraud info, and I have since eliminated them from the picture.

They are simply waiting on parts delivery from Detroit. Apparently, they did get a new torque converter already but ran across some more service bulletins that require a new front pump and some other goodies. Is that the same bulletin that is posted on the forums here and something newly released?

Thanks.

I'll second that question. On another thread, someone mentioned this was for all pre- July '05 builds - torque converter, cooler, pump, and filters.

So is there actually some documentation on this, or is this one of those under the table fixes they don't like to publicize, similiar to what I read about in a book on lemon laws a few years back (I believe the term was "secret warranty/recall")?

loyalp · **Joined:** Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:21 pm **Posts:** 41

Yeah, my build date is 05/05. I think there is a little something going on with the tranny on these puppies. The service guys got kind of quiet when I asked for more details....

oldnavy · **Posted:** Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:11 am

There is a TSB out to replace TC, tranny cooler and related hardware if tranny has TC failure. The problem started with too many transmissions that went to long without having the TSB for replacing the problem filters. This problem is related to dealers not doing the TSB's promptly, D/C not doing a full recall and drivers not noticing the early shifting problems.

Torque Converter Saga

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