Overboost and VGT

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:15 pm

I am getting an overboost condition. Watching my boost on Torque, it is climbing. I am trying to play with my VGT actuator. How and what do I move?

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ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:45 pm

Here is where I am at. Took the exhaust off the turbo and the intake and cac hoses. Turbo turns smooth. I cannot move the actuating rod by hand. I bought a vacuum pump and pump it all the way to 25"mg and it barely budges. I believe it should have some movement.

I may button her up for the night and tomorrow, pull the turbo right off of her tomorrow.

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GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The turbo actuator arm below the vacuum canistor in top of turbo should move slightly over 1/2 inch up when you apply full vacuum and then drop down when vacuum is removed. It sounds like you have excessive soot in the turbo vane mechanism. Before removing turbo for cleaning, try to cycle vacuum several times in an effort to get full travel from the arm (may help to push/pull on arm to help get it moving). After this, run the engine hard, several 0-60 hard accels to blow out the build up and get turbo hot.

If you can not get the vanes to travel by hand, do not do the accels as this may risk overspeeding the turbo rotating assembly.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:02 am

Thank you Keith for the response. After buttoning her up for the night, I did a search of the forum and went through the FSM, and found that RacerTracer had the same issue. So, that is what I have been doing this morning. I didn't take the turbo off for fear that I would need a new gasket. Unfortunately, in either the 2006 FSM or Parts Fiche, could I locate a part number for a turbo gasket. Anyone out there can help with the PN?

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:28 am

Well, I am still having issues. Boost tops out, per the ECM and Torque, at 22.3psi. I figure that I will keep working it with the vacuum pump for the week, and if no improvements, then I will have to take action.

I am wondering, and maybe Keith or someone can answer this. I just came back from hauling a camper. Unfortunately, I do not have a pyro yet. Could I have damaged something with excessive EGTs?

I have been going to school on these turbos. My last TD was a 7.3 IDI with a banks turbo. Simple to work on. So here are a few of my videos I have watched. Maybe, some of you will learn something, too. It is a playlist that I am putting together.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6EB53C489C6F89BC

The last one with the guy with the 6.0 is really good and he is a trip!!

striperman36 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:07 pm

Fookin Canucks, eh! More swear words in 45 than my entire lifetime

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:18 pm

My recently replaced Turbo had P0234 code with vanes stuck. Bad case of soot and stuff stuck on vanes but cause was a bit unusual so check on this:

I was losing a very small amount of coolant to where "Low Coolant" warning would come on and I would add a 50-50 mix of H2O and HOAT G05 to bring up level. Literally around a 7-10 ounces.
This was about every 800 to 1000 miles. Could not find leak any where! It was going in the combustion chambers and mixing with soot and promoting sticking to vanes and areas in turbo.
Turns out coolant leaking thru EGR even though SEGR and Green Diesel econo tune is being used.
My trusted mechanic at turbo replacement saw the signs of coolant debris sticking on vanes and suggested capping the flow of coolant to the EGR. Even thou it was "closed" ("Off road use only") coolant still got thru. Thank goodness it was not a leaking head gasket condition!

So if you are losing coolant this could be the demise of your turbo.

Roland

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:16 pm

Thanks Silver for the tip. As of right now, I have not been losing any fluid from from cooling system. So, hopefully, that is not my problem.

Here is another question. I am trying to figure out which way my actuator is stuck. Is the normal (no vacuum) position of the vanes in the open (high rpms) or closed (low rpms) state. Mine seems to be in the closed state, because driving around "normally" for me feels like there is no problem. Only issues is when I have to give it a little throttle or, as I tried, WOT just sucks.

nnvacrd · **Posted:** Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:38 am

search tdi club forums, a fellow named drivbiwire has a great writeup on vgt turbo clean and repair.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:08 pm

Thanks for the tip. I will search for it and hope to do some more learning.

Ordered a turbo gasket today at the local Jeep dealer. I found out why I couldn't find it in the parts fiche. It is under section 014 fuel. Even the parts guys had a hard time finding it.

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ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:56 pm

Unfortunately, I accidentally hijacked someones thread. I guess I should come back to mine.

I removed the turbo to figure our why it was stuck. Took me about 2 hours to do it. But what I found, I don't like. It appears that a tip of a vane broke, and that tip caused havoc inside the turbo. It sorta looked like the guy's in this video, but not nearly as bad. Video is sorta long, but it is both informative and entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W2R6BWD ... 489C6F89BC

The bearings in the turbo seem fine. The vanes are still tight, but they do move about 50% of the travel. If I am to temporarily put the turbo back on, now I will have underboost instead of overboost. You may be asking, why put it back on? I have to get to work while I wait for work to catch up on my pay and order what I need.

Now, it is going to be time for a decision. I am probably going to be talking to Keith from GDE tomorrow and get some advice.

Enjoy the ugly pics...

I was hoping this was the only problem...but it wasn't.

Broken vane...

Beat up turbine

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:15 pm

That turbine isn't beat up unless it has chunks out of it - the vanes are supposed to be curved over like that.

What I don't like is how wet and oily that looks. Did you do something to it, or is that how it came out? Mine have always been dry and dusty, not wet and slimy.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:17 pm

geordi wrote:

That turbine isn't beat up unless it has chunks out of it - the vanes are supposed to be curved over like that.

What I don't like is how wet and oily that looks. Did you do something to it, or is that how it came out? Mine have always been dry and dusty, not wet and slimy.

I sprayed it down with cleaner to get the soot off of it to get a better look.

Here is another look at the turbine... :banghead:

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:02 pm

Yea, that looks ok to me, it is all about how smooth it rotates in the center cartridge and that there isn't any excessive play. There may be a loose ring behind it (captured against the center cartridge) which is OK, that is an exhaust sealing ring.

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:34 am

I just PMed Hammy to see what he may be doing with his turbo. I do have one other problem that I need to work on today. One of the turbo mounting studs broke. Only the end 1/2" or so broke off, so I have a lot to grab onto. Just need heat and lubricant.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:09 am

We had that 1/2" broken stud problem when geordi and I installed my GDE turbo. If you cannot grab the remains of the stud with a stud removal tool I found that, scary as it seems, vice grips clamped to the stud remains, really tight, and supplemented with lots of penetrating lube and heat worked. It also helped to "rock" the vice grips back and forth to work the stud loose in the threads and the broken stud will eventually come out. Suggest replacement with grade 5 studs, we leaned toward grade 8 but could not get them and Keith thought grade 8 might be too brittle given the heat those studs are exposed too. NOTE we also did not use the "jam" nuts on the reinstall as they seem to be part of the stud breakage problem; good regular grade 5 nuts and lock washers should be more than enough to hold.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:14 am

Yea... That part of the job really sucked.

The studs are actually WAY too soft for the application (way to go yet again VM) and we found that one of them had actually been partially stripped IN THE HOLE on Papaindigo's motor. I don't know what kind of non-rated hardware they were using, but that was complete trash if it got overstressed by just the factory installation. His engine had never been worked on there until we took the turbo off.

I'm still dubious about the grade 8 being too brittle, but it was a moot point in our search - the parts stores didn't have them anyway. Your local parts store "help" section or the hardware collection should have the studs in a good grade for replacement. NAPA should have the stud removal cam-tool (looks like a big circle with a socket wrench port and a hole for the bolt) and that was like $25 IIRC.

In actuality, I think the vise grips might have been more effective than that tool... Not sure about the heat, but the penetrating oil is a must.

I have pulled my turbo more than a few times, and I'm not using the crush nuts anymore either - With pulling the head this time, I had to remove the turbo yet again... I didn't gorilla the nuts the last time to tighten them, but they were a TON harder to remove again! Just like the factory nuts. I think what happens is that they are expanding at different rates b/c of the different steel grades... And the nuts overtighten themselves that way. Ugh.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:49 am

If a vane is dinked like that what can be done?

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:22 pm

That was easier than expected. Used a hammer on extractor. Between the beating and the PB Blaster, it came right off.

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ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:19 pm

First of all, I would like to thank Keith From GDE for our discussion. He is a great guy, great businessman, and I highly recommend you get a tune from him if you don't already have one. Because of him, I will be saving a bit of money, and able to put that money on a new camper to bring a smile to a 7yo's face.

Turbo is back on and all buttoned up. Jeep is running a lot better. As I figured, it will be a little sluggish on the low end with the vanes messed up like they are, but seems like no more overboost. I will be monitoring it to see how it goes. But, I will be ordering a new turbo in the coming weeks and replacing the whole unit. Hammy is willing to send me his bad turbo with the good vanes. I am going to do a little swapping and make a backup/loaner turbo if anyone is in tough financial situations and desperately needs something to be able to get them to work until they can get a new one.

As for the Turbo, I think I will go with IDParts. Corey seems to be another great businessman, seeing what he has done with the problems with the waterpumps, and being so honest about it. Another person who I recommend doing business with.

Overboost and VGT

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