The mechanic and turbo builder are scratching their heads and I'm spending way too much money on a vehicle with less than 100K. 2005 CRD, according to the turbo guy, the turbo is not getting oil. There is plenty of oil, since it all pumps out the tail pipe when it fails. However, even 10 seconds without oil can damage the turbo. We are going to check the inlet pipe but does anyone have other ideas on oil pressure or flow to the turbo? For the record I also have a 2006 CRD and it has bee trouble free to 135K. I the difference is the previous owners and how they treated them: This site has been very helpful in the past.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2

Be interesting to put a pressure gauge on the turbo's oil inlet to see what operating pressure looks like - on both vehicles - to compare.

Has either turbo been 'yours' for it's entire life? If so, that would seem to rule out driving habits such as cool-down times.

Also - do either or both vehicles have anything to reduce FCV/EGR activity? If not, a failing emissions system may be blocking too much airflow.. or perhaps the vacuum modulator for the variable vanes is sticking and causing turbo 'bark' by not controlling pressure well?

Tell us more..

Mark

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2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

The #1 reason for turbo failure is lack of oil supply to the CHRA (Center Housing and Rotating Assembly) I strongly suggest that you REPLACE your supply line to the turbo. Mopar P/N: 05142607AA. Make sure too that the banjo bolt is clean of any debris-the outlet holes are TINY! These holes allow oil to flow properly out of the supply line and into the turbo.

Question: Turbo builder? These turbos are typically not rebuildable, at least not with Garrett sourced parts anyway. Garrett only sells new. And they don't sell rebuild kits, at least not one that is directly referenced to our GT2056V. If your guy is "rebuilding" this turbo, no offense, but it sounds like he is learning how to do it on your dime.

My advice, and it is worth EXACTLY what you are paying for it, is to get a new-in-the-box turbo, P/N: 763360-5001S along with a new oil supply line and be done with it. Hope this helps.

FWIW,

Hoosier CRD

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FWIW,
Hoosier CRD

#1 Liberty: '05 CRD Limited Stone White
(SOLD Dec. 2013)
#2 Liberty: ???
"Why guess when you can know?"- Carroll Smith

The turbo is oiled from the main gallery on the upper passenger side of the engine (see Figure 2.8L-720 in the 05 parts manual) using a pressurized line from the #2 port (counting from the back) in that gallery (the other 3 ports are plugged) and the oil (now unpressurized I think) flows back into the engine thru the turbo oil return line that's lightly pressed into a rubber fitting in the passenger side of the block.

geordi can give you information regarding the oil pressure in that gallery as he has a pressure gauge installed in the #1 port. So do I but the gauge electronics have problems so I don't get a good signal when I get a signal at all.

Absent more information:
1. the gallery is clearly getting oil or your engine would dead as a stone since that gallery feeds the main bearings.
2. loosing oil out the tail pipe on turbo failure makes it sound like there is oil coming into the turbo but not proof that it's going thru the turbo to the return line. But I'm surprised, given other's experience, that you did not loose the engine at the same time the turbo sent oil out the exhaust.
3. when you replace the turbo I'd strongly recommend both the turbo supply and return lines be replaced.
4. I'd also wonder how well you have been following turbo cool down recommendations as that too can cause turbo failure.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Well, the jeep is still down. The turbo is over boosting and shutting down. The mechanic pulled the oil pan to clean it. Metal in the pan from the first turbo having a major failure. The engine runs well until the overboost shuts off the turbo. Any thoughts on what could cause an overboost.

Yes, several things:

A bad VNT section in the turbo itself - I had this happen on a brand-new turbo, it can happen.
A bad Vacuum modulator that does not properly switch to allowing air into the turbo's vacuum motor to reduce the boost and slow the turbo.
A bad or plugged MAP sensor which does not properly detect the boost until it crosses the upper limit threshold.
A bad MAF sensor which combines with the MAP to provide garbage data to the computer about how much air is being taken in, which makes the computer request too much boost into the safety cut range
Not driving your CRD hard enough (search Italian tune up) and the VNT section has built up carbon deposits that are holding the turbo in the max-boost position, no matter what the computer tells it to do. This is the EASIEST to find - Idle the engine, and pull the vacuum line off the turbo (or off the modulator on the other end) and watch the arm under the vacuum motor - If it doesn't drop about 1/2 inch, and you hear the exhaust tone change - Your turbo is crudded up in the VNT and the vanes are jammed. If it does move, look elsewhere.

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Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Excellent feedback. Its new turbo so it should not be gummed up yet. I
We will give this a try and report back. Thank you

Just how does metal get into the pan from a turbo failure? Even if the turbo grenaded itself there is no way for its pieces to get into the pan unless they are travelling through the hoses and intercooler (not likely).

Secondary failure inside the engine I could accept, perhaps as a result of loss of oil pressure, but then your going to have much bigger problems than replacing a turbo.

Why is it that we hear about so many of these sort of problems on LOST from US owners and yet there are far more KJ CRDs in the rest of the world that never seem to have these problems? I can't recall a single turbo failure mentioned on the major Australian Jeep Forum (including JK Wrangler CRDs, and this stretches back to the early 2.5L CRD KJs with the fixed vane turbos). What is the difference between these environments or the vehicle setup?

Oil supply to the turbo. Bearings let go, the pieces go through the oil return line into the pan.

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2006 Sport, GDE FT Eco Tune, Custom Trans Tune
2015 Ram 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel, GDE Hot Tune

No. I have taken the center cartridge apart, and what you typically think of as a bearing, simply does not exist. There are NO MOVING PARTS inside the center cartridge of the turbo other than the center shaft of steel. That shaft passes through several small "bushings" on either end of the cartridge, a large thrust bearing on the compressor side, and into the main bearing: a carefully machined -yet solid- tube of brass. This brass tube precisely fits the steel shaft (If it hasn't overheated) and has several VERY TINY grooves and holes cut in it for the oil to flow through. The oil is the only thing moving in the turbo, supporting and cooling the center shaft entirely. In proper operation, the shaft would be completely covered and supported, and never touch the brass tube or anything else other than the thrust bearings at either end.

Those thrust bearings are the only thing that keeps the oil in - And they are solid little pieces of metal too. There are also no "seals" in the turbo that could possibly fail. The ONLY FAILURE MODE of the turbo is shaft damage to these other parts. The highly precise tolerances wear out from physical contact, and it overheats and begins to leak oil... Overheating more and leaking more... until it is replaced or the shaft seizes and snaps off.


If there is metal found in the oil pan, I can think of only a couple places that could have come from, and ALL of them are in the bottom of the engine and suffer BADLY when the turbo fails and starts leaking oil if it is not caught in time. If the leak is severe enough, that time can be just 10 seconds to discover what has happened and get the vehicle into NEUTRAL and the key off. You don't need to stop the tires from rotating first - Just the engine, which is why it MUST be in neutral. Metal in the oil pan, I need to know what kind. If it is copper, that is what happens to your main rod bearings when they starve for oil due to a turbo leak. It is most likely the #1 cylinder (furthest from the oil supply) and this can happen EVEN WHILE THE PAN IS STILL CONTAINING OIL if the leak is severe enough.

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Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

I should state the 2006 engine has been fairly trouble free, I am the second owner on this CRD and the previous owner treated it well. The 2005 CRD I believe was "rode hard and put up wet" by some of the three past owners. I'm working with my certified mechanic/nephew on this problem with the 2005 and I will show him your feedback. I'll bring back more info on Monday.

What weight of oil are you running?
Since the bushings in the turbo are floating bushings with clearance both between the shaft and center housing. The floating bearings dampen out any very very small imbalance problems and let the turbo last a long time. Use a thin oil like 0W-40 that is only recommended in the US/Canada (but no where else in the world for reasons that defy logic and the laws of physics), will allow any very very small imbalance problems will go out of control and trash the turbo, even if it has good oil supply and oil pressure. The 5W-40 is better, if it still has the additives that are being taken out (like zinc) to kiss up to the EPA on newer engines that are designed to run on the oil with crap additives. Oils that used to be great and no longer are, have been reformulated to comply with specifications for newer engines that have newer emissions equipment required by the EPA. Some of the reformulations are not good for our engines such as the removal of zinc. In spite of claims the oils are not backwards compatible.
I use Amsoil AMO 10W-40 that has high zinc, others add zinc additives.
Cheap investment compared to the price of cam followers and turbos.

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2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

Update on my 2005 turbo problems:

Oil - since I have owned it I have used synthetic 5-50 weight I believe. One of the brands recommended by this forum.

Oil pan removal - Mechanic pulled the pan and found brass and aluminum small pieces in the pan. It appears to be from the the turbo that blew, hopefully. The idea is the there was enough metal in the pan which was plugging the intake oil screen in the pan?

Inter-cooler - We are going to remove the inter-cooler and have it cleaned and pressure checked in the case its full of gunk and reducing air flow.

Overboost - As someone recommended, we pulled the vacuum line off the turbo. The jeep runs without the vacuum line and does not over boost. Sounds like the fins on the turbo are not opening and closing to vary the boost pressure. The turbo builder suggested that this may be the problem with the over boost so, we will remove it and send it back for another turbo.

Original turbo failure - We are still not sure if the oil starvation problem is solved. We are going to drive around a before sending the turbo back and see how it runs. We have checked all the oil lines and they are clear. Our only conclusion if the turbo bearing is burned from oil starvation is that there is a engine problem, maybe a spun bearing. The engine sounds good, no bad sounds indicating bearing problems.

That's what I know now and I would appreciate any more thoughts from you guys. This is the best place for finding info on the CRD engine.

Jeep is still running well. I have put about 5K on it since the repairs.

So what was causing all the issues and what fixed it? thanks.

IMO, the primary reason a lot of turbos fail is the driver shutting down a hot engine/turbo. . . just a few too many times.

Of course, that excludes the members of this forum

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'05 Sport CRD 107k miles. NOBODY knows everything.

x2 TJ2 as you posted I also was beginning to wonder what shutdown procedure is being followed - as a general practice.

The NEVER shut down a hot turbo has been practiced on my KJ since new.....only 2 drive her -wife and self.
One of us is not game to suffer the consequences of a quick shutdown.

[color=#4040FF]Ditto the proviso TJ2 added also. [/color]:shock:

I have a friend who just purchased a brand new diesel Ranger - towed a heavy caravan along the steep and unfogiving hills of the blue mountains roads and proudly jumped out brimming smile to show me the new rig - immediately switched the key off without thinking. I just yelled AAAAARGH + rude words. He spun around and started it again. Too late, I thought. So we had a steadying drink and and long and serious chat about turbo and diesel engine care.

I am the third owner on this CRD so, I dont know if the shut down process was followed. I sit and let the turbo spin down before shutting off. I learned this process years ago operating diesel farm equipment.

the initial failure was the shaft bearing which damaged the fins. I understand it only takes about 10 seconds without oil and the bearing is toast. I tried rebuilding with a new bearing. I couldnt find a schematic to reassemble and scewed it up somewhere and it failed.

Purchased a rebuilt and it failed. The rebuilder said it was oil starved and wouldnt honor the warranty. So, I purchased from a different rebuilder. The first one the y sent immediately failed. The builder admitted it was their problem and sent another turbo. I have been running this turbo for several thousand miles.

Never found a oil pressure problem. So, I speculate the previous owners didnt allow the turbo to slow down before shutting the motor off.

Most here would be nervous about using anything but a new factory turbo (or GDE), but would you mind listing the rebuilder whose turbo has lasted the longest, so far?

Thanks!

DOC

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2005 KJ CRD Ltd Detroit TrueTrac Bilsteins G2 GDE "HOT" ECU GDE TCM "Tow Tune" "euro" TC SEGR Weeks Elbow New HG at 130K ARPs Clean CAT aFe Filter Magnaflow Exhaust EHM Cumminos In-Tank Lift Pump Hayden Fan Clutch Nylon Fan VH Enabled with GDE lower shutoff point Recalibrated Temp Gauge Tekonsha Prodigy Sears P-1 ZDDP

Pure Turbos pureturbos.com
Phone 760-721-7669

I checked, 5k in March 2 so 7k now march 30. Just returned from a 700 mile trip, loaded with stuff. I ran half the trip with the MAF wire disconnected. I did notice a little better mileage and performance.