What's the deal with the 4x4? Cutting power??

TurboGoKart · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:38 am

So I had a chance to take my new KK thru a little mud/dirt/huge ruts. I almost got stuck once because of ground clearance. I tried to straddle the ruts because I had a feeling they were too deep for a stock suspension KK, but I ended up sliding down into the rut.

I noticed something a bit weird though. I was in 4WD LOW at one point trying to get out, and my front wheels were in the rut pointing up (I was scraping the bottom of the jeep and trying to get back out of the rut). I'd hit the gas and stay on it, but it acted like traction control was on, but it was off. It cut power to the wheels like it does when you're sliding and traction control is on. Backed up to try again, but it wouldn't pull out of it, only this time (still in 4WD LOW) the front wheels weren't moving, and the rear wheels were spinning. So I put it in 4WD LOCK and my front axles started spinning again, pulling me out. What gives? I noticed this a few other times while I was playing. Why does it cut power to the wheels? Is it taking a second to transfer power to the other axle that's not spinning? Or what?

The aftermath:

Cherrie 274 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:45 am

Still have traction control in 4 low, just takes more to activate it. Some on here pull the fuse, but some have wired a switch and others like it.

Ted15 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:37 am

TurboGoKart wrote:

So I had a chance to take my new KK thru a little mud/dirt/huge ruts. I almost got stuck once because of ground clearance. I tried to straddle the ruts because I had a feeling they were too deep for a stock suspension KK, but I ended up sliding down into the rut.

I noticed something a bit weird though. I was in 4WD LOW at one point trying to get out, and my front wheels were in the rut pointing up (I was scraping the bottom of the jeep and trying to get back out of the rut). I'd hit the gas and stay on it, but it acted like traction control was on, but it was off. It cut power to the wheels like it does when you're sliding and traction control is on. Backed up to try again, but it wouldn't pull out of it, only this time (still in 4WD LOW) the front wheels weren't moving, and the rear wheels were spinning. So I put it in 4WD LOCK and my front axles started spinning again, pulling me out. What gives? I noticed this a few other times while I was playing. Why does it cut power to the wheels? Is it taking a second to transfer power to the other axle that's not spinning? Or what?

The aftermath:

That sounds backwards, the traction control is different when in 4 low and when the button is pushed makes it less sensative but it doesn't turn off all if the way. It's a real pain in the rear if you want to wheel in 4 hi too. What was happening in 4 low was most likely the virtual limited slip ( it has a different name but I can't think of it). The traction system senses the wheel spin and engages the brake on the spinning wheel allowing torque to be transferred to the other wheel. That is a great system most of the time but for mud it sucks. I can't help but think that a good limited slip like a trutrac would work very well on the KK. :2cents:

TurboGoKart · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:00 am

Wow that's different lol. Thanks for the replies. So in theory, I could find the ground wire for the traction control and put an inline switch and that'll kill it?

Ted15 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:43 am

Here's an excellent article from one of the engineers that designed the system.
http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=270

Ted15 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:49 am

Ted15 wrote:

Here's an excellent article from one of the engineers that designed the system.
http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=270

And another one from eaton for the DTT. They almost seem to be made for each other.
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/ ... 128482.pdf

At The Helm · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:34 am

TurboGoKart wrote:

Wow that's different lol. Thanks for the replies. So in theory, I could find the ground wire for the traction control and put an inline switch and that'll kill it?

This works really well. viewtopic.php?f=88&t=51166&hilit=Switch

Cherrie 274 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:47 am

Atthehelm wrote:

TurboGoKart wrote:

Wow that's different lol. Thanks for the replies. So in theory, I could find the ground wire for the traction control and put an inline switch and that'll kill it?

This works really well. viewtopic.php?f=88&t=51166&hilit=Switch

thank you I have been searching for ScarO thread since my first post. Search as never worked for me!:( I was going to PM him for it. Still might PM him to say hi hasn't been on in awhile.

TurboGoKart · **Posted:** Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:15 pm

Ted15 wrote:

Here's an excellent article from one of the engineers that designed the system.
http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=270

Perfect!! Thank you! It's so much easier to accomodate your driving style when you understand what the vehicle is trying to do....which is the part I was lacking last night.

So in short, in 4WD LOCK with traction control ON, it enables the engine torque control as well as BLD (brake locking differential - controls side to side traction by keeping the speed of both wheels on the same axle at the same speed). In 4WD LOCK with traction control OFF, only BLD is enabled, controlling side to side traction, but actual wheel speed is irrelevant (good for mud/deep snow).

In 4WD LOW, traction control is irrelevant as to ON or OFF because only BLD is used here. In 4WD LOW if one wheel is spinning, it brakes that wheel to match the speed of the other wheel. The torque gained from 4WD LOW comes into play here because as you use the torque to overcome the braking, it increases the torque that will be applied to the wheel that is not spinning (BLD attempts to match tire speed over an axle, so if you use more torque to overcome the braking that's applied to the spinning wheel and make it spin faster, it'll deliver more torque to the wheel not spinning by trying to match wheel speeds across that axle).

Thank you very much for that link!! Very very useful! So am I correct in saying that there's really no need to disable the traction control then since you can turn it off in 4WD LOCK, and in 4WD LOW it's not even using traction control, just the BLD?

TurboGoKart · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:21 am

Soooooo.....no one told me you had to be in N to switch to 4WD LOW. :oops:

Reading around today I saw someone say that if the 4x4 LOW is flashing on the dash, you're not in LOW. Lo and behold, when you put the gear selector in Neutral, and click to 4WD LOW, the LOW lights up on the dash, as well as traction control off, coinciding with the article Ted posted above. Heh, sometimes the best way to learn is by your own mistakes lmao.

Mikzor · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:28 pm **Posts:** 64

TurboGoKart wrote:

....Very very useful! So am I correct in saying that there's really no need to disable the traction control then since you can turn it off in 4WD LOCK, and in 4WD LOW it's not even using traction control, just the BLD?

In 4WD High even if you have disabled ESC by the switch it will turn itself back on if you go above 80kmph (What's that in yank speak... 50mph?) which some people may find annoying if they are tearing it up the beach for instance. It also turns itself back on if you turn the car off / on again so you have to repeat the 5 second button disable step.

E2 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:38 am

Fun times.........

Mikzor wrote:

TurboGoKart wrote:

....Very very useful! So am I correct in saying that there's really no need to disable the traction control then since you can turn it off in 4WD LOCK, and in 4WD LOW it's not even using traction control, just the BLD?

In 4WD High even if you have disabled ESC by the switch it will turn itself back on if you go above 80kmph (What's that in yank speak... 50mph?) which some people may find annoying if they are tearing it up the beach for instance. It also turns itself back on if you turn the car off / on again so you have to repeat the 5 second button disable step.

E2 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:39 am

Nice looking mud

TurboGoKart wrote:

So I had a chance to take my new KK thru a little mud/dirt/huge ruts. I almost got stuck once because of ground clearance. I tried to straddle the ruts because I had a feeling they were too deep for a stock suspension KK, but I ended up sliding down into the rut.

I noticed something a bit weird though. I was in 4WD LOW at one point trying to get out, and my front wheels were in the rut pointing up (I was scraping the bottom of the jeep and trying to get back out of the rut). I'd hit the gas and stay on it, but it acted like traction control was on, but it was off. It cut power to the wheels like it does when you're sliding and traction control is on. Backed up to try again, but it wouldn't pull out of it, only this time (still in 4WD LOW) the front wheels weren't moving, and the rear wheels were spinning. So I put it in 4WD LOCK and my front axles started spinning again, pulling me out. What gives? I noticed this a few other times while I was playing. Why does it cut power to the wheels? Is it taking a second to transfer power to the other axle that's not spinning? Or what?

The aftermath:

05renny · **Posted:** Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:40 pm

30 day tags still on it!

TurboGoKart · **Posted:** Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:30 am

^^Lol. Thanks for coming tonight AJ. That was a ton of fun!

Had a chance to go back off road, and NOW that I know how the 4WD system works, it was a blast. She drove smooth as butter thru some nice trails and mud and ruts. 05renny came too, and even with his "very worn" tires was able to do great. Never broke out a tow strap! :JEEPIN:

zak62592 · **Joined:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:04 pm **Posts:** 11

Pull the J6 fuse everwhere you go!

Ted15 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:28 pm

zak62592 wrote:

Pull the J6 fuse everwhere you go!

If you pull the ABS fuse then this won't work
http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?p=entry&id=270
:2cents:

TurboGoKart · **Posted:** Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:08 pm

Lol why would I pull the ABS fuse?! Once you understand how it works, it's a pretty sweet system. You just have to make sure your driving style meshes with how the system works. And if you're saying pull it so the brakes won't get hot, well the BLD system has a thermal protect on it, so no worries there.

What's the deal with the 4x4? Cutting power??

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